Do L$ have value or NOT??????

I didn't read that in the TOS. Can you quote your source please?

You guys actually READ the TOS?

Read about the TOS here:http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php

That would only be true if LL didn't facilitate the trading of $L for USD on an exchange they own called the LindeX.

If the LindeX did not exist, then their TOS which states that $L has no USD would be true.

Players can trade $L amongst themselves for USD with nothing more than an obligation to claim the USD as income and pay any taxes that may be due.

However, LL cannot do this without opening themselves and the game to liability.

Do L$ have value or NOT??????


Isn't it true that L$ can be traded for US$?

Without commenting on the rest of this lenghty discussion, a simple YES seems to answer the original question.

Aren't you all repeating yourselves now....not just in both threads, but in each thread?

A thread should die, when each person repeats themselves once.

The word digital appears only twice in the source you list. It says nothing about $L being a digital credit.

4.3 You will comply with the processes of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act regarding copyright infringement claims covered under such Act.

Our policy is to respond to notices of alleged infringement that comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA". Copyright-infringing materials found within the world of Second Life can be identified and removed via Linden Lab's DMCA compliance process listed at http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php, and you agree to comply with such process in the event you are involved in any claim of copyright infringement to which the DMCA may be applicable.


Again, please quote your source for LL's statement that $L is a digital credit.

I wouldn't have to repeat myself, if ya'll just read it to begin with.

The same questions repeated over and over should be deleted don't ya think?
That might solve the duplicate answers.

I might even get more sleep

Well...obviously I read "to begin with" because I know you're repeating yourself.

Cheers and good night guys...see you tomorrow.

Forums by day, SL by night.

I can't quote my source, it was in a face to face discussion so it hardly matters but you can do the same with face to face discussions.

A lot of money only exists as a bunch of transient 1's and 0's in some server (database, to be precise). That's how US currency works. When money is wired, it's all 1's and 0's, no paper changes hands.

You don't think there's a real piece of paper currency for every dollar in every account in every bank?

No, they haven't.

The LindeX is an exchange. It doesn't create any liability for LL.


No, they never say that in the TOS.

To everyone who argues so strongly that the L$ should be considered a real currency, I have to ask, why do you want SL to fail? You do realize that would @#$& things up for all of us and quite possibly kill SL, right? So, even if you're right, shush about it already FFS!

"Because if we can't have our gambling fun, then no one can have any fun">

Being able to trade something has nothing to do with being a security, registered or otherwise.

In fact, that's kind of the point of the TOS. Linden's are _unsecured_. LL has no obligation to do anything for them. They don't represent either ownership (which is what stock is), or a share of profits, or a loan. There's no way they can be considered a security.


Nonsense. That's not what stock is.

There is only one way stock gets created, by a corporation filing papes with a state. Someone files articles of incorporation in some state, and those articles inidcate that a certain number of shares of stock are created. Or, at a late date, they file a form indicating that they've authorized additional shares of stock.

"Oh we're only trying to HELP SL stay alive by pointing out everything that's wrong with it, and that could possibly be construed as illegal."

She shouldn't have to yet. Everyone is basically responding to your accusation that LL is engaged in selling unregulated securities, is open to a qui tam action, which by the way is not nearly as easy to bring as you are making it out to be, and to your claim that the Linden is an illegally created currency. These are your arguments and it is your responsibility to support them. You completely ignored my earlier request to cite your authority. If you have read the law, as you have repeatedly claimed, then citing your authority should be easy. Please do so. In case I was wrong and you have no legal background, a citation looks like this:

15 USC 77(b)(a)(1).

BTW - that's the definition of a security. On the off chance you haven't read the law, it's a good place to start.

or "we just love sales tax so much we really want to pay it on all our in-world purchases!"

No, it's not. See http://www.ithacahours.org/

Is one way of looking at it. Another is that we could be on the rocky road to ruin. I'm with Chip Midnight on this one, let's be quiet about it.

I am not arguing for it. I am clearly arguing against it. If you read my posts you would see that.

The fact that LL facilitates the trading of $L for USD on the LindeX is what gives $L value.

I fully realize the implications of the $L having USD value. It will kill SL. I am calling for LL to ditch the LindeX so that it is not &%#@'d up for everyone.

The problem is no one seems to realize this but me and a couple other people. We are the only ones calling for LL to ditch the LindeX.

The only way to get LL to do that is for everyone to call for it.

Shushing about it FFS is not going to change it.

Wow, very cool. I went to college there. Great town! Disney Dollars is another example. http://www.dlrpmagic.com/guides/practical/guestservices/currencyexchange/

No. That would only be true if LL redeemed L$ for USD. They don't. They only provide a service that matches willing buyers with willing sellers (as I'm sure many others have mentioned.)

That was the answer, guys!

Taco Bell had taco bucks a while back that you could collect to pay for food. Once they stopped that promotion then they became worthless...and they were worthless at any other restaraurant.

Value is based on demand. There is a demand for L$ because people like trading it for services and objects within SL. There is a demand for the official currency of WoW for the same reason. The difference? LL won't punish you for buying L$ outside of the game and they in fact facilitate it. Blizzard could do the same if they wanted to. They choose not to...probably to avoid this very debate!

This reminds me of about a year or so ago when Anshe Chung tried to introduce her own currency in SL based on Euros or something. Everyone thought it was pretty funny, but it had no value to SL because the L$ was already satisfying the in-game demand for currency...plus there's the whole "relying on someone else to tell you how much $ you have in a game of anonymity (i.e. Ginko!)".

As far as the gambling ban, I think LL just didn't want to have to deal with all the legal implications and processes neccessary to be allowed to gamble.

The problem is that just about everyone that thinks L$ has RL value seems to have trouble differentiating between RL and SL. Not that they "have no lives" or anything like that but they put more importance and credit into SL than it actually merits at this point.

Take SL away and there literally are no L$s. They only truly exist in the upper right hand corner of our browsers.

Take away the current US government (please! ) and there are physically still dollars...it's just a matter if anyone would find them valueable anymore.

Ithaca hours is a barter system. Ithaca hours are not sold or traded for USD.

The $L is traded for USD and further, the company that created it is facilitating the trading of $L for USD on the LindeX in direct conflict with their stated TOS that says $L has no USD value

"1.4 Second Life "currency" is a limited license right available for purchase or free distribution at Linden Lab's discretion, and is not redeemable for monetary value from Linden Lab.....

....Regardless of terminology used, Linden Dollars represent a limited license right governed solely under the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Linden Lab at any time."