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Is Paying for Links in Profile Picks Cheating?

Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
09-05-2008 17:41
From: Colette Meiji
I am beginning to think people in the UK have stricter boundaries for the word "Cheating" than we do in the US.


I'm quite startled that people in the US find freedom of expression so objectionable. Individuals decide whether or not they want to put a pick in their profile.
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
09-05-2008 17:46
picks will be driven away by gaming them, a lot like Ratings were. Some arent happy if they cant game something to death.
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
09-05-2008 17:48
Easiest solution, and limits gaming a good bit.

Turn the google appliance into Network search mode, limiting it to keywords in the parcel description. Make a new ar option for false keyword spamming.

Suddenly search works a whole lot better.
_____________________
==========================================

Bippity boppity boo! I'm stalking you!

9 out of 10 voices in my head don't like you... the 10th went to get the ammo
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-05-2008 17:50
From: Ciaran Laval
I'm quite startled that people in the US find freedom of expression so objectionable. Individuals decide whether or not they want to put a pick in their profile.


Oh come on you know thats not what I meant.

--------------
I was specifically referring to gaming the search system and the use of the word cheating.

Most of the people who object to the word "Cheating" regarding the gaming are from the UK, or countries that use UK style English.

Why is that? I know there are subtle language differences between the two countries ...

Its a benefit of the doubt thing. Perhaps when you consider cheating you have something narrow in mind.

While those who think its cheating have another set of boundaries in mind. Cheating to me has some very broad possibilities.

I'm not trying to slam the UK at all. I'm just wondering at a potential disconnect in communication.

Chalk it up to us Americans messing up the language if you want. Its just curious.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-05-2008 17:57
From: Toy LaFollette
picks will be driven away by gaming them, a lot like Ratings were. Some arent happy if they cant game something to death.


Totally true.

If they are gamed past a certain point - They will be removed

To streamline the system.

Just like Ratings were.
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
09-05-2008 18:01
From: Colette Meiji

I was specifically referring to gaming the search system and the use of the word cheating.


I don't see paying for picks as cheating. Linden Lab point out that picks are important, people are going to look to add value to their parcel to attain picks, one way is payment. I really don't see how that's cheating.

Cheating to me is something out of sight, that's deliberately hidden because it's knowingly wrong. Cheating would be saying you'd pay someone for a profile pick and then not doing so. Cheating involves a lie or deception. There's no lie or deception in saying you'll pay someone for a pick and then paying them.
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
09-05-2008 18:05
From: Ciaran Laval
I don't see paying for picks as cheating. Linden Lab point out that picks are important, people are going to look to add value to their parcel to attain picks, one way is payment. I really don't see how that's cheating.

Cheating to me is something out of sight, that's deliberately hidden because it's knowingly wrong. Cheating would be saying you'd pay someone for a profile pick and then not doing so. Cheating involves a lie or deception. There's no lie or deception in saying you'll pay someone for a pick and then paying them.


They are cheating in the sense that they are no longer your picks, they are someone elses. So that will make Picks useless and LL wil simply remove them.
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-05-2008 18:07
From: Ciaran Laval
I don't see paying for picks as cheating. Linden Lab point out that picks are important, people are going to look to add value to their parcel to attain picks, one way is payment. I really don't see how that's cheating.

Cheating to me is something out of sight, that's deliberately hidden because it's knowingly wrong. Cheating would be saying you'd pay someone for a profile pick and then not doing so. Cheating involves a lie or deception. There's no lie or deception in saying you'll pay someone for a pick and then paying them.


Cheating to me is any gaming of a system that was not intended to be gamed.

There are different levels of cheating.

Buying Picks wouldn't be nearly as bad as having a horde of alts and using their picks.

But its still influencing the system in a way that the designers did not intend.

The Intent was for people to put in their picks the places they enjoy, and for those places to be reflected in the Search.
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
09-05-2008 18:10
From: Toy LaFollette
They are cheating in the sense that they are no longer your picks, they are someone elses. So that will make Picks useless and LL wil simply remove them.


They are your picks because you decide to put the pick there. This is the thing I find most odd about people objecting to picks, people do so out of their own free will. It's a personal choice, there's no arm twisting involved. If someone values a parcel because they get payment then so be it. They made that decision. They valued it enough to place that pick.

As LL put the information about picks in the business owners section, I doubt they'll be removing it anytime soon.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-05-2008 18:13
From: Ciaran Laval

As LL put the information about picks in the business owners section, I doubt they'll be removing it anytime soon.


Were you around for the Ratings changes?
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
09-05-2008 18:13
From: Colette Meiji
The Intent was for people to put in their picks the places they enjoy, and for those places to be reflected in the Search.


And if someone enjoys a place because they get payment, they're not allowed to do that? If it was just about enjoyment then what are stores doing in anyone's picks? They'd be full of social hangouts.
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
09-05-2008 18:25
From: Ciaran Laval
They are your picks because you decide to put the pick there. This is the thing I find most odd about people objecting to picks, people do so out of their own free will. It's a personal choice, there's no arm twisting involved. If someone values a parcel because they get payment then so be it. They made that decision. They valued it enough to place that pick.

As LL put the information about picks in the business owners section, I doubt they'll be removing it anytime soon.


if LL removes them or not they are becoming useless. They are paid advertising, no longer picks. I would not be surprised to see LL drop them. They have done so before to things they start and find are being gamed and no longer useful. I have been asked to accept L$ to put a place in my picks, I simply reply, sorry I dont whore my picks.
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
09-05-2008 18:28
From: Toy LaFollette
I have been asked to accept L$ to put a place in my picks, I simply reply, sorry I dont whore my picks.


Which is your choice. I still can't understand why you object to people having a choice.

Of course they're paid advertising, what did you expect to happen when Linden Lab announced they were important to search? It's not like there weren't precedents on such matters.
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
09-05-2008 18:32
From: Ciaran Laval
Which is your choice. I still can't understand why you object to people having a choice.

Of course they're paid advertising, what did you expect to happen when Linden Lab announced they were important to search? It's not like there weren't precedents on such matters.


I object because they render Picks useless. Is that so very hard to comprehend? What I expected was honesty, I know, my mistake.
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
09-05-2008 18:40
From: Toy LaFollette
I object because they render Picks useless. Is that so very hard to comprehend? What I expected was honesty, I know, my mistake.


They do not render picks useless. Picks are still individual choice. I'm still trying to figure out why so many people are against individual choice.
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
09-05-2008 18:47
From: Ciaran Laval
They do not render picks useless. Picks are still individual choice. I'm still trying to figure out why so many people are against individual choice.


OMG!!! once you are paid to place a pick in your Picks it is no longer your picks!!!! Its the pick of the person paying you, no longer your pick!!!!
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
09-05-2008 18:51
From: Toy LaFollette
OMG!!! once you are paid to place a pick in your Picks it is no longer your picks!!!! Its the pick of the person paying you, no longer your pick!!!!


How the bloody hell can your own decision to place a pick be someone else's decision?
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-05-2008 18:51
From: Ciaran Laval
And if someone enjoys a place because they get payment, .


Our elections are pretty messed up here in the States but we don't let people BUY votes. How bout over there?

From: Ciaran Laval
If it was just about enjoyment then what are stores doing in anyone's picks? They'd be full of social hangouts.


Yeah. And?
MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
09-05-2008 18:52
From: Ciaran Laval
They do not render picks useless. Picks are still individual choice. I'm still trying to figure out why so many people are against individual choice.


It's one thing to put a vote for Bob sign on your yard because you endorse the candidate, and another thing all together to put it up because Bob is paying you some money.

It stops being your choice and pick, and becomes a paid advertisement that you may or may not agree with... but you're willing to do for the reward
_____________________
==========================================

Bippity boppity boo! I'm stalking you!

9 out of 10 voices in my head don't like you... the 10th went to get the ammo
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
09-05-2008 18:54
From: Colette Meiji
Our elections are pretty messed up here in the States but we don't let people BUY votes. How bout over there?


Oh please, people don't vote for parties whom they think will be kinder to their pocket? Pull the other one.
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
09-05-2008 18:55
From: MortVent Charron
It stops being your choice and pick, and becomes a paid advertisement that you may or may not agree with... but you're willing to do for the reward


The important part there being "You're willing to do for the reward". The individual is willing, not forced.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-05-2008 18:55
From: Toy LaFollette
OMG!!! once you are paid to place a pick in your Picks it is no longer your picks!!!! Its the pick of the person paying you, no longer your pick!!!!


I wish there was a time machine that would allow people to log onto 2005 Second Life

A lot of this culture shock is because they have NO IDEA what was lost.
MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
09-05-2008 18:55
From: Ciaran Laval
Oh please, people don't vote for parties whom they think will be kinder to their pocket? Pull the other one.


They pick the one that suits their views.

But they don't walk in to vote and get handed a couple bucks to vote for Bob instead of Joe. which is what happens with paid picks
_____________________
==========================================

Bippity boppity boo! I'm stalking you!

9 out of 10 voices in my head don't like you... the 10th went to get the ammo
Toy LaFollette
I eat paintchips
Join date: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,359
09-05-2008 18:56
From: Ciaran Laval
How the bloody hell can your own decision to place a pick be someone else's decision?


Please stop puposely being so dense. Once you are paid to place a place in your Picks it belongs to the one paying you, why do these places have so many stipulations to 'your' picks? Because they are no longer your picks. Im sorry if I cant make it any clearer
_____________________
"So you see, my loyalty lies with Second Life, not with Linden Lab. Where I perceive the actions of Linden Lab to be in conflict with the best interests of Second Life, I side with Second Life."-Jacek
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-05-2008 18:57
From: Ciaran Laval
Oh please, people don't vote for parties whom they think will be kinder to their pocket? Pull the other one.


Thats different

thats a vote hoping for results which benefit you


Not a result because you were benefited
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