full bright skin option as opposed to facelights

I agree that they THINK they are making themselves look better to others, but it is not based on actual evidence of what others think, it's based on what they see on their screen.

There has NEVER been a guarantee that people would see them how they want to be seen, as people with poor computers (and there are many) could have local lights turned off because of the recommended settings for their old computers.

Of course.
They may think they are achieving #2 if they achieve #1. Since they are not asking, and don't particularly care if people hate their facelights, then the syllogism that they don't really care is the correct construction of their motivation behind wearing the light.

Load of bull. People buy facelights because they see someone else with a facelight and that person looks good to them, they put on thier own facelight and they look good to themselves, natural conclusion is they look good to everybody. The majority of SL doesn't not even know about the forums or are not aware that everyone has access now. If they do not come here or if no one ever sends them a screen shot showing what they look like to some other users then how could they possibly know they might look bad under some circumstances. It is a huge jump to come to the conclusion that they do not care what others think because the natural conclusion is that they do care.

Packing bullshit into a sentence with bigger words like "then the syllogism that they don't really care is the correct construction of their motivation" does not lend any credence to a flawed argument.

There's no need to have a "guarantee" to have enough confidence to act. If I was waiting for a guarantee I'd never have gotten into SL in the first place.
They only need to achieve #2 for the people they hang out with. People who are often using facelights themselves.

You really can't conceive that people may actually like something you don't?

You don't have to be rude about it, Jesse.

People don't hate facelights because of reading the forum.

They jump to a conclusion, but it's not necessarily based on evidence of what other people actually think. No one asked me, and I didn't say anything to people with lights under their chins.

So we are back to them caring only about some people, not all people, liking the way they look? So they'll take it off in the presence of someone that thinks it looks stupid? I sincerely doubt that.


Spare me, Argent. You're the one claiming that people are invalidating your experiences by disagreeing with you.

They care about most people, I suspect. They believe most people like the way they look when they wear facelights, and only a few weirdos object. You believe that hardly anyone does, and they're deluded. I don't see that either of you have proven their case.

I can validate your experiences, because I dislike facelights too, but I'm a weirdo who objects strongly to voice.
I told you the first time I commented on it that I wasn't going to discuss why I don't like voice, I was just using it to demonstrate that there are things that other people have terribly negative reactions to that you don't mind at all.

Consider that the complementary situation may be true.

Think about it. You were very rude when with one sentence you said that a whole group of users did not care what anyone else thought.

I'm not calling them names or intending to insult, I'm examining the behavior and drawing a conclusion that you don't agree with. I see it as a rationalization, and I think they care more about what is on their screen than what other people actually think. If they take the time to ask everyone if they look okay with or without the facelight, and removed it in the company of those that didn't like it, I would believe that they actually cared.

I didn't make a generalization about how many people like or don't like facelights. What I did say is that there is no way to know what people are seeing, and given that situation, they are acting only based on what they see - which is what is on their own screen.

I never said it wasn't. One man's trash is another's treasure, and the voice thing is an unnecessary tangent to this discussion.

You're splitting hairs, and I'm pretty sure you're not actually misunderstanding the point as much as you're trying to imply.

I'm not splitting hairs. I am making a simple observation about performance, without assigning a value judgment to it. It is a fact that people cannot know what others are seeing. We can't know if someone has a crappy video card and low visual settings. We can't know when someone is on a 9000 series nVidia card and has their eyes burned out with the slightest glow. There is no value judgment in that.

The value judgment I HAVE made is that they don't truly care about it, because they act without actual evidence. I could be wrong, but I haven't encountered anyone wearing a facelight taking it off to suit their company, much less asking anyone's opinion of it.

LMAO. I HATE and I do mean literally hate the fashion trend of wearing the baggy pants that are too big and look to me like someone took a dump in the seat and they have their underwear sticking out.

But it would pretty much well make me a dummie if I was to say that they didn't think they looked good to others and did not care about other's feeling when they wore those pants. It would definitely make me a b*tch, actually a suicidal one if I was to tell them to go back home and change their clothes to PLEASE ME. Understand those last two words? You are saying that they are selfish and do not care what others think when it is you that is selfish and do not care what others think. You do not care if they look good to themselves, you only care how they look to you on your particular computer and you want them to change to PLEASE YOU.

Uh, no.

First, I do not tell people to go home and take off their facelight, however bright or subtle it is. So no, that is not what I am saying. What I have done is try to help people use the greater tools other than wear the little flashlight under their chin.

Second, you're just trying to attack me. Yeah, I don't care if they look good to themselves, because it's not something I can control, and style choices are a matter of self expression that generally don't impact me one way or another. Until recently, however, facelights affected me and my immersion and I didn't have a choice. I have one now, and I happily use it. The facelight is, for most people, a workaround for a technical deficiency, not a style choice. In Nina's case, it is a form of a style choice, since her light is actually colored to produce a specific effect other than "not look like Bizarro Supergirl."

If they change, they help everyone else by reducing rendering costs and in the case of scripted facelights, sim performance. I don't care if that makes me "selfish" for wanting faster performance.

I will confess to saying ( to the very glaring ones ) " So the sun really does shine out your ****

You're wrong. They have evidence. They have other people wearing facelights. They can see them. They're NOT all nuclear facelights. They're NOT all running on Intel GMA950s with 64M of shared memory and 512M of system RAM. They have the evidence of their eyes, and other people's eyes, that they, and the other people, look better in their eyes, and the other people's eyes. You consider it inadequate evidence, but they don't, and what they consider is the important thing to understand when you're talking about THEIR motivations.

Have you ever met anyone asking "do you mind if I wear bling", or "do you mind if I use flexi hair", or "do you mind if I use voice", or "do you mind if I wear nothing but prims", or "do you mind if I play annoying gestures", but you find people doing all of these things, and you find people annoyed by all of them, but it would be foolishness to claim that they don't care about other people seeing or hearing these things or not.

This made me laugh. Jesse responded with the exact same tone you use in almost every post.

They may not have to even ask. Imagine two friends in a club, one wearing a face light. The other one says "you look awesome!". The one wearing the face light just got feedback from her friend that tells her that it makes her look good on other people's computers and I'm sure that makes her happy. I'm sure that scenario plays out many times a day and it demonstrates a person caring about how they look both in their viewer and other's.

So it's ok to tell someone to do something that only fixes half the problem and not even mention that.. oh... btw you will still look like crap to everyone else? It's obvious that the OP is concerned how she looks in both her viewer and other people's. She has even clarified that in further posts.

And nothing is it, the anti-voice brigade are constantly trying to degrade the enjoyment of others using SL with voice for many reasons. some have imparements to their typing and vision and they would be excluded from conversations in text.
I only turn voice on when I want it or someone requests to talk to me on it, other than that it causes me no issues leaving it off, it's been great at lectures and other similar events, sure it's full of idiots at an infohub, but I just turn it off, problem solved.

You can say the same thing about the anti-facelight brigade. Or are you missing the point deliberately?

Well, I don't have a problem with facelights at all if not done stupidly.............

I can't seem to tell, for myself. I use a facelight because Treasure is so god-awful UGLY without one. It seems to transform her. But I would love to know if my facelight is horrible or offensive. I use a laptop, a newer one with a good vid card; but for some reason I just can't seem to gauge the scope of the facelight.

It sounds more like you need a nicer skin or a fuller shape than a facelight... But I just looked at your profile picture and my opinion is that you're overreacting. But whatever, take it for what it's worth.

Agreed.

I'm not sure if i'm using the Enviromental editor correctly...but whatever preset i create, i lose day/night cycle....which is not my preference if i'm spending a lot of time in SL.

To keep the day/night cycle, you have to make a complete set of new presets (12AM, 3AM, ... 9PM) and then use the day cycle editor to poke the new presets into the right place in the day cycle, then save the day cycle. And every time you upgrade the client you have to go into the day cycle editor and set up and save your day cycle again.

And this is an IMPROVEMENT. You used to have to copy out your XML presets and copy them back in again every time you updated.