Forced to install voice client :(
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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09-20-2007 08:00
From: Nina Stepford if it were merely a ui issue i could modify the xml files myself.
but its not, it a stability issue. i downloaded the nicholaz view on day because ll 'upgraded' viewer did not work. at all. i downloaded the nicholaz viewer because i desperately wanted to get in world and flag all my land for sale. i planned to cash in because sl was totally unplayable for me. once i had nicholaz's viewer running, sl was running again. better than it had run in yonks. that is why i continue to run his viewer. not because of some silly ui issue. I highly doubt that Nicholaz alone is creating more stable code than the LL team for ALL conceivable hardware and software configs. If your Nicholaz viewer is more stable than the actual client, I say you're lucky you didn't crap out. I'm willing to bet the bank that the majority of people will be less likely to run into trouble on the default client.
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~Michael Bigwig __________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs 
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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09-20-2007 08:00
From: Lexxi Gynoid From the threads I've seen, people like the Nicholaz viewer because they can use it and move in SL and not crash. I would say that whichever viewer works on a particular user computer system is a superior viewer for that system.
I, on the other hand, have never gotten the Nicholaz viewer to work except once without freezing or crashing. /me rubs Lexxi behind the ears
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
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09-20-2007 08:00
mate i am pissing myself with laughter. one guy in his spare time squashed more ll created bugs than 70% of lindens coders can manage in a year, and you post this  im going to upload your quote and frame it. i find it that hysterically funny. |
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bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,468
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09-20-2007 08:02
From: Cherry Czervik Who is Alt?
Do I know him? You're right ... I don't know why I said that .. forgive me.
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Kevyn Hienke
Curmudgeon
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 238
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09-20-2007 08:04
From: Michael Bigwig He is merely taking an existing product, and tweaking it on 'popular' demand. It is not the superior product. It is a modification. The actual engine is no more or less stable than the actual client--it's all relative and subjective to each hardware and software config. Nicholaz is working on an already massively developed structure--he's just adding a few coats of paint, and some of you are accepting this as a different product.
I'm not at all bad-mouthing Nicholaz--he is a very clever gentleman, who has made a lot of people happy. I only want you to understand that he's only a plastic surgeon in an already developed Universe. Anyone who uses the Nicholaz viewer knows that he is merely applying bug patches to the existing viewer, which is why he calls himself the mad patcher and if you've ever read his blog you'd know that is clearly what he is doing, so you are merely shouting the obvious when you harp about how he is just patching the viewer that LL puts out. The point many of us are making is that by patching bugs in the code LL does release that they have missed, he does make it more stable, thereby making it a superior product. The fact that he also provides an option for a user interface that many people prefer and ask for heightens its superiority. Yes, he is taking the viewer that LL puts out and turning it into a superior product. |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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09-20-2007 08:06
From: Brenda Connolly In your opinion. Just as we have an opinion. All I know is , several times, the LL upsate viewer has had problems in it that seemed to vanish, with Nicholaz' version. By all means use what works best for you. In my mind it IS a superior product. Which ever version allows you to rez faster, move with the least lag and do what you do in SL with less issues is the superior version for you. A brand new sports car is probably technically superior to to 5 year old minivan, but if you are buying groceries for a family of 4 you are better off with the van. |
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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09-20-2007 08:07
From: Nina Stepford mate i am pissing myself with laughter. one guy in his spare time squashed more ll created bugs than 70% of lindens coders can manage in a year, and you post this im going to upload your quote and frame it. i find it that hysterically funny. See, you are completely backwards. You think that Nickolaz has squashed more bugs than LL...you are the one out of your mind. LL developed the ENTIRE engine...do you know how many lines of code, tweaking, and 'squashing of bugs' they have done? Like I said, Nicholaz is merely a plastic surgeon. LL is God. Do not confuse the two. It's easy for Nicholas to pick and choose what he wants to change (based on the community's complaints), but LL, however, is developing and tweaking an entire Universe. I can't believe you can't understand these points.
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~Michael Bigwig __________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
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09-20-2007 08:09
LL seems to appreciate Nicholaz's work... From: someone Contributor of the Year
And now, the Contributor of the Year. This is the model citizen, who not only contributes something useful, but goes above and beyond to contribute something really necessary. This year’s winner stormed onto the scene in May, and has been a consistent contributor of patches ever since then. He has found several stubborn memory leaks and bugs that potentially crash the viewer. He’s been a fierce critic of Linden Lab at times, but has backed up his rhetoric with running code. We respect and appreciate that.
So, the winner of the 2007 Contributor of the Year goes to Nicholaz Beresford.
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~Now Trout Re-Re-Re-Certified!~ From: someone I am bumping you to an 8.5 on the Official Trout Measuring Instrument of Sluttiness. You are an enigma - on the one hand a sweet, gentle, intelligent woman who we would like to wrap up in our arms and protect, and on the other, a temptress to whom we would like to do all sorts of unmentionable things.
Congratulations and shame on you! You are a bit of a slut.
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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09-20-2007 08:10
From: Kevyn Hienke Anyone who uses the Nicholaz viewer knows that he is merely applying bug patches to the existing viewer, which is why he calls himself the mad patcher and if you've ever read his blog you'd know that is clearly what he is doing, so you are merely shouting the obvious when you harp about how he is just patching the viewer that LL puts out.
The point many of us are making is that by patching bugs in the code LL does release that they have missed, he does make it more stable, thereby making it a superior product. The fact that he also provides an option for a user interface that many people prefer and ask for heightens its superiority.
Yes, he is taking the viewer that LL puts out and turning it into a superior product. No no no...again, you are confused. He is only making it stable for SOME of you, with particular hardware and software configs. He is only one man, and can not create drivers and code for ALL possible configs. However, the default client LL puts out is more likely to run on a wider range of equipment--this is a big point I'm making. Just because the Nick viewer runs better on your machine, doesn't mean it runs better on mine. Therefore, it is NOT a superior product...it's merely a different product.
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~Michael Bigwig __________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs
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DaQbet Kish
cautiously reckless
Join date: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,064
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09-20-2007 08:10
Nicholaz did a big part I believe in solving the memory leak problems that plagued duel core machines awhile back. And because of that I have never had a problem recommending his viewer to anyone that has issues with LL’s.
As far at the Communicate window…I’ve accepted it and gotten used to it. At some point though, the entire UI is going to have to be pulled out of the 1990s.
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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09-20-2007 08:10
From: Kevyn Hienke Anyone who uses the Nicholaz viewer knows that he is merely applying bug patches to the existing viewer, which is why he calls himself the mad patcher and if you've ever read his blog you'd know that is clearly what he is doing, so you are merely shouting the obvious when you harp about how he is just patching the view that LL puts out.
The point many of us are making is that by patching bugs in the code LL does release that they have missed, he does make it more stable, thereby making it a superior product. The fact that he also provides an option for a user interface that many people prefer and ask for heightens its superiority.
Yes, he is taking the viewer that LL puts out and turning it into a superior product. Yes, the end result is IN MY OPINION, a superior product. He makes the Linden supplied application better. Just like I might install an aftermarket cd player in my truck to replace the one installed by Ford, this is the same thing. And if that outside installer finds something was wired wrong inititially and fixes it, even better. No matter what kind of butter he uses to make a pie for his penguin.
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com
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bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,468
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09-20-2007 08:10
From: Ceera Murakami
The problem is that if you aren't blessed with a HUGE monitor and a video card that allows you to play SL full-screen at high resolution, that Chatterbox UI is over twice as large as the non-Voice UI. Try running SL in an 800 x 600 window, and then tell me that the Chatterbox isn't too big, when it eats half your window every time you use it.
Just for information I upgraded my monitor to a 32" 17:9 screen and the communicate window opens up almost halfway across the screen. It narrows down a little but not enough. Grrr!
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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09-20-2007 08:29
From: bilbo99 Emu Just for information I upgraded my monitor to a 32" 17:9 screen and the communicate window opens up almost halfway across the screen. It narrows down a little but not enough. Grrr! I don't know why so many of you are up-in-arms about the communicate window. It barely takes up any room--on multiple rigs, different monitors, and standard to high resolutions--it doesn't get in the way at all. *shrugs* 
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~Michael Bigwig __________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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09-20-2007 08:30
From: bilbo99 Emu Just for information I upgraded my monitor to a 32" 17:9 screen and the communicate window opens up almost halfway across the screen. It narrows down a little but not enough. Grrr! /me looks at her paltry 19 inch monitor, then at bilbo, then at her panties, .."Yoo Hoo! hobbitt...over here.....
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
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Torian Carter
Searching for a 3rd Life
Join date: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 111
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09-20-2007 08:49
It's not just an issue of voice, it's the bad client design. Voice can be shut off (or if you are like me, add SLVOICE.exe to your blacklisted programs in your anti-spyware.... just to be sure it never sneaks in there.. ha ha)
But the overall design is a mess. If you are using a widescreen monitor, the button bar at the bottom of the screen has each of the few buttons about 3" wide. Putting the tabs from the communications window down there would look a lot better. We have the communications window, with all the functions squished together, and the other functions spread across the whole screen. And what are the gestures doing in both?
To me it looks like the LL interface programmers used to work for Fisher Price!
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bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,468
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09-20-2007 08:51
Hmmm ... Michael ... Brenda ... Michael ... Brenda ... ohh, it's a tough one!!  I'm outta here LOL
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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09-20-2007 08:57
From: Torian Carter It's not just an issue of voice, it's the bad client design. Voice can be shut off (or if you are like me, add SLVOICE.exe to your blacklisted programs in your anti-spyware.... just to be sure it never sneaks in there.. ha ha)
But the overall design is a mess. If you are using a widescreen monitor, the button bar at the bottom of the screen has each of the few buttons about 3" wide. Putting the tabs from the communications window down there would look a lot better. We have the communications window, with all the functions squished together, and the other functions spread across the whole screen. And what are the gestures doing in both?
To me it looks like the LL interface programmers used to work for Fisher Price! For the record, this is subjective. I, personally, in my many years of design and education think the NEW version is of 'better design.' No one is "right".
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~Michael Bigwig __________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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09-20-2007 09:01
From: Torian Carter It's not just an issue of voice, it's the bad client design. Voice can be shut off (or if you are like me, add SLVOICE.exe to your blacklisted programs in your anti-spyware.... just to be sure it never sneaks in there.. ha ha)
But the overall design is a mess. If you are using a widescreen monitor, the button bar at the bottom of the screen has each of the few buttons about 3" wide. Putting the tabs from the communications window down there would look a lot better. We have the communications window, with all the functions squished together, and the other functions spread across the whole screen. And what are the gestures doing in both?
To me it looks like the LL interface programmers used to work for Fisher Price! Speaking of that, playing with the menu, when I hit activate voice, my windows firewall warning popped up. What's up with that.....
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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09-20-2007 09:02
From: bilbo99 Emu Hmmm ... Michael ... Brenda ... Michael ... Brenda ... ohh, it's a tough one!! I'm outta here LOL "Yoo Hoo, Lego Boy, Panties, remember?"
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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09-20-2007 09:03
From: Michael Bigwig For the record, this is subjective. I, personally, in my many years of design and education think the NEW version is of 'better design.'
No one is "right". I think Ford said the same thing about Edsel. The car, not his son.
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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09-20-2007 09:16
From: Nina Stepford ive churned butter by mistake, but it was pretty nasty stuff. Probably needed salt. Back on topic...Apparently, the term "mandatory update" is misleading. I'm continuing to use the 1.18.3 viewer patched with Nicholaz' xm version, and SL is continuing to accept it. I haven't tried logging in with an unpatched LL client to see if it insists on upgrading itself.
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It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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09-20-2007 09:22
I'm quite happy with this update so far.
/me hides
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
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09-20-2007 09:22
From: Torian Carter It's not just an issue of voice, it's the bad client design. Voice can be shut off (or if you are like me, add SLVOICE.exe to your blacklisted programs in your anti-spyware.... just to be sure it never sneaks in there.. ha ha)
But the overall design is a mess. If you are using a widescreen monitor, the button bar at the bottom of the screen has each of the few buttons about 3" wide. Putting the tabs from the communications window down there would look a lot better. We have the communications window, with all the functions squished together, and the other functions spread across the whole screen. And what are the gestures doing in both?
To me it looks like the LL interface programmers used to work for Fisher Price! I'd agree with a lot of that. The new Communicate window's better organized than the old separate IM/Chat History/Friends List in separate places. But LL didn't get rid of some now-unneeded stuff. The chat entry box at the bottom of the UI. The extra Gestures button. The extra link to Groups in the avatar pie menu. And the Communicate window and Chat history window would go well spread along the bottom of the UI. I run SL on a 24" widescreen monitor, plus about 1/3 of another one. I keep the communication windows and my Inventory on the extra monitor space. But not everyone has the luxury of that much screen real estate.
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It's still My World and My Imagination! So there.
Lindal Kidd
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Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
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09-20-2007 09:25
From: Lindal Kidd I'd agree with a lot of that. The new Communicate window's better organized than the old separate IM/Chat History/Friends List in separate places. But LL didn't get rid of some now-unneeded stuff. The chat entry box at the bottom of the UI. The extra Gestures button. The extra link to Groups in the avatar pie menu. And the Communicate window and Chat history window would go well spread along the bottom of the UI.
I run SL on a 24" widescreen monitor, plus about 1/3 of another one. I keep the communication windows and my Inventory on the extra monitor space. But not everyone has the luxury of that much screen real estate. I have a 19" and that still seems like a luxury ... |
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Torian Carter
Searching for a 3rd Life
Join date: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 111
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09-20-2007 09:37
From: Brenda Connolly Speaking of that, playing with the menu, when I hit activate voice, my windows firewall warning popped up. What's up with that..... That's the #1 reason why SL Voice will not fly in the corporate world. It uses some non-standard ports that almost all firewalls will block by default. If it's the Micro$oft desktop firewall that's blocking it then that spells big trouble for a lot of non computer savy users. Speaking of which.. isn't it about time Bill Gates or Steve Jobs decided they wanted SL for themselves. /me Pulls out her lingerie with the MS and Mac logos. lol |