Some People...

oh dear me, not 5 seconds literally. i guess it comes across that way in text
it's a count to 5 that usually takes a couple miniutes

/me looks around, feeling all piratey

Yar, I be Pirate Pete and I eats Newbs for me brekky. Arrr, tis a Pirates life!!

/end dialogue

Seriously guys, i can understand why many of these things would be annoying, but we were all 'newbies' once. In fact, it's only from this thread and similar threads I have learnt how possessive people are of their SL property (which i can now understand and fully relate to). But let's just take it a bit easy on the newbs, after all - there's so much to learn when first logging on, and in fact - so little information within SL around these particular issues.
I never recall seeing anything, anywhere, either on Help Island, Orientation Island, welcome areas or NCI about community guidelines or property - considering how big an issue it is. I'm sure there is information there somewhere, but perhaps it needs to be made more obvious for beginners, just so they understand?

Not only that, but yes, you give the newbs a break, i'm refering to people where year old plus birthdates. I only greif a newb if they are greifing me. rezzing bnoxious objects, asking for sex, stuff.

Hear, hear! In fact, example:
My fiancee and I were getting ready to go out at our little home (and yes, I am talking SL!)
We were both dressed and on the verge of tp-ing when ding-dong on the door and in walks Ruth. She just stands in the doorway. I wait a moment for her reaction to seeing us and I say hello. Nuthin. I found the landmark I wanted and ask fiancee if she's ready to go. Nuthin from her either. My thought was, leave Ruth to look around, play whatever. Mebbe doesn't speak english anyway. No harm done. I tp away and offer tp to fiancee. Over a minute later she finally arrives and I ask what took so long.
She hit the roof with "I couldn't get rid of that girl! She wouldn't answer me. She wouldn't go when I told her this was private." She went bananas LOL
I explained she might not have been english, might have been busy anyway, we were leaving anyhow and I have never minded visitors. Her reply? ... Oh. LOL

Trout, I often explore just for the heck of it. If people don't want you trapsing across their lawn they'll soon use banlines (Ugh!) or security orbs (can we please have a shade over 2 seconds to get away ?!?!?)
In the absence of either and no green dots I take my time. If there are green dots I approach with care, even green dots in houses aren't necessarily the owners but I err on the side of caution and leave them their privacy anyway.
I do find some of the more interesting places by simply 'globetrotting' .. especially when search is so tempramental and besides, you do find the unexpected this way

Lol yes, love those security orb, time delays "you have 15 seconds to ................." SPLAT!

Just wondering.... what would be a reasonable warning time?

That's a difficult one really. As mentioned earlier, if things are laggy and you haven't got full control a minute might be needed before you know which way is out.

In a reasonably quick area I'd say 15 seconds wasn't too bad but 10 is a bit of a panic. I think this area should be the minimum?

Besides, at times when moving obliquely, say north-easterly, it isn't immediately clear *whose* plot has the orb. Orientation takes a while too.

One of the things we have been trying to do in our Royal Majestic mall is to put more of a "human" face on things, by having an employee there to meet customers. Some just don't want to chat, but at least then they know that someone is there to answer questions. Others appreciate it when they have something specific they want and we can direct them right to it, saving them some time.

When I first joined I felt that shopping was such a sterile experience - you couldn't ask questions of anybody or really get to know the "business". I like to try to change that slowly to make SL a more friendly place. Sometimes we have noobs coming by and if we can just make them feel a little more comfortable by helping them out with something (like telling them to change their foot size to fit the shoes they are wearing) then it's a great thing.

In general, the reaction has been very very positive.

I was, up until recently renting a water plot where I had a nice houseboat I had designed sitting in such a way you could look out over the water. Anyways, I rezzed an AV detector and logged on one day, read the list and shrugged off the name as someone flying by. Logged on the next day, after resetting the list of visited names...the name was there again... o.O Same thing the next day, after every time I reset the record of names, this persons name came up again and again.

Maybe they liked the view I dunno, so either way I didn't ban them right out as it was just he boat on the plot. I simply set the lock on my door (hadn't done it until now) so that only those names listed and my landlord could get in (if need be)

Either way was kinda weird, after all there was nothing there, the boat deck didn't even have any seating to chill out on... >.<

Could the AV rezz items on your land? Maybe he rezzed his own furniture??

Anyway, instead of locking the door, I would have IMd the AV demanding rent!

Very possible .. I decided at a very early stage to leave create on on my land for just this purpose. I can see why shops and malls don't want people leaving boxes lying around but am quite amazed there seems a total lack of 'rezzing area' for customers to transfer inventory .. they don't all have their own land plots ya know!


Hee hee .. or ask them to bring some wine or cookies next time and meet up!

I completely agree with this. The last time tp was completely borked I just started walking North from my home spot on the south end of the continent. I found some pretty cool stuff that way. Stuff I never would have seen otherwise by just tp'ing around. I guess what I try to avoid is just randomly popping onto someone's property when they are there and probably busy with something else. I know some people get really possessive about their land and don't like "trespassers".

If I had property, I wouldn't really care who showed up, but I wouldn't be really thrilled if they rezzed a bunch of stuff and left it. That just seems rude.

I don't know what is worse. To have someone walk in your house and harass you or have someone standing far away out of your land and watching you with their camera controls.

You can do something about this! There is a JIRA paroposal to create "3D permission zones" that would block abuse of camera controls to invade privacy. The only reason there is no real privacy in SL is that no-one has done anything serious about it. Here is your chance to.

The proposal is called SVC-99. Go vote on it. Please do it now, before you forget. It is at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-99

There are also other privacy-enhancing proposals you can vote on at a meta-proposal, SVC-241. Go to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-241 and peruse.

why do you think you have any right at all to privacy? ??!??

Um, because I am a normal human being, who does not care to be spied upon or intruded upon by unwelcome people, and LL is alleged to want to attract and keep such human beings in SL? And I just might be one of those businesses with an interest in SL as a platform who would not care to have idiots with 3 foot dongs walking through their business meetings with clients in-world, or have competitors camming in on those meetings and observing them? Because there are more people like me than there are sick, neurotic Peeping Toms, stalkers, griefers, petty criminals and idiots, and LL has an interest in attracting the former and not encouraging the latter?

Do you feel foolish for asking your question yet, or do you want to pursue the matter further? If you get it, you can still atone: "The proposal is called SVC-99. Go vote on it. Please do it now, before you forget. It is at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-99"

I would prefer you to make no assumptions. I may not agree/.

you caring is not a right.

if you want privacy log off.

you have no right to assume you have any rights on this privatly owned computer system.

I voted for it.

And you have no right to assume LL will remain so foolish as to not deal with this lapse on their part.

Instead of unsightly banlines, you could use a security orb which will give a warning to leave in a certain number of seconds.

I shall abstain for a few reasons. Firstly as previously stated, my fiancee and I have opposite thoughts on this anyway.

We seem to have two extreme views here and I hope expressing them will not get this thread locked!!

On one hand, I want to see everything. The original blurb I read for this virtual world was come and explore. When I hammer into banlines on unattended parcels which might join with neighbours banlines across half a sim I get really angry. This isn't privacy. It's sheer bloody mindedness.

On my original First Land a neighbour had banlines up on a completely undeveloped plot which meant my detouring round every time I wanted to go and talk to neighbours. People just leave banlines up blocking our freedom to explore. When they are not there where does the issue of privacy come in?

On the other hand, I can understand some people simply don't want strangers walking in on what might seem to be their personal space. In this situation fine, banlines, security orbs, whatever but pleee-ase .. only when you are in residence huh?
Having huge no-go areas seems ludicrous.

I can't see why we need more privacy tools when the ones in place are so abused. How many people would, if they had these new zones, disable them when they logout?

Speaking of privacy. The other day I seen some items for sale on Slexchange regarding being able to "spy" and basically stalk people in SL. WTH??

Yeah I don't get the banlines thing really. I mean 95% of the time I see them, there is nobody home so it is not protecting privacy, it is just a nuisance. I can't be bothered having them on my own land, and I haven't had any privacy issues, so I don't see the value added for them myself.

For the most part, I really want to agree with the opposition as outlined pretty well by bilbo there. But looking at the platform in its ultimate potential, imagining a world where in the future people could *live* much like they do in reality, I do think people will require private spaces, being able to work, meet, or what have you, in private without having to buy a private island. After some time, I would have to call the impossibility of that an unfortunate oversight.

Especially considering Linden Lab's LARGE open-source initiative, I want to urge anyone discussing the issue of privacy as far as *visibility of content* to realize restricting camera movement should not be considered as a privacy solution. To me that means simulators need to altogether not send content to non-priveleged viewers if that content is in a private area, so one has to ask: what do you put in that empty space? You could just make it appear empty, but you probably don't want non-priveleged users to pass through that private space anyway. So if the solution was parcel-based, opaque walls that extend up infinitely into the sky are what the options look like. For that reason, I can't imagine this being done without some large change like the "3d Permissions Zones" proposed here. It's just hard for me personally to vote for such a radical change just yet.

On the other hand, many times I've imagined a utopia whose basis is the absense of privacy P: