How to lose 2000 USD.

Sorry for being off topic but if anyone is interested I just posted a feature suggestion to the new SL issue tracker hopefully it will be a useful suggestion. It is VWR-431.

So this Merlin person refuses to return mistakes/crashed client/etc. purchases?

Ignores. Etc. I did trap Landbaron Merlin into an ugly cut this morning and a few of us had a few words. Unfortunately, his alt (hard to keep track of which one. Bot Hax I think) got orbited... wasn't me, I don't orbit bots or people.

His take appeared to be "So what? You can't do anything".

So far he's right.

And if LL doesn't do something about Merlin soon, maybe I will rub my jaw and consider orbiting and other breaks of ToS. It's illegal to shoot someone who preys on mistakes and perhaps even bugs... but it's ok for them to fill their pockets at other people's expense?

Hmm. Everyone has a breaking point. I'll try to schedule mine conveniently.

Yes, shouldn't all of this be a wake up sign to LL to do something about it??

At way below market value, you might add.

Yes, they do perform a service in that way. But there are those that could also say that because of this, prices on crappy land go up instead of where they belong. It's all a matter of perspective with no clear winner.

But bots also snag deals and create work for honorable bot owners.

As far as your point of 50 dialog boxes - well, let's see. The latest person crashed to find 30,000m set to sale for the price she was pricing 512s at. No, a dialog box wouldn't help with that. And not 50.

But that grace period? Oh. that might have helped.

Well, I dunno. Anyone want to start a pool on when LL will do something other than say 'file abuse reports'? Perhaps even do something about the incredible losses?

I'm thinking $20,000 US about now. We could just put some money together, pay off Landbaron Merlin and then tell LL that we lost $20,000 US.

At least that would be up front...

If its that much something needs to be done.

There are separate issues here.

(1) If the issue is the SL software glitching out for some reason, then LL should make sure that those who lost money from the glitches are compensated, one way or another. Inaction on their part is indefinsible.

(2) If the issue is Landbots beating out "real" land buyers, then with the client open source the solution is a freely available, open-source Landbot client "real" land buyers can use to equalize things.

(3) If the issue is land swooping, then ethically we enter into murky territory; the offenders are merely buying land at the price set by the owner, under terms set by the owner. I think we all agree it is wrong to take advantage of someone's obvious mistake, but this is not a simple either-or situation so much as a spectrum, where someone might invoke "land swooping" rather than admit to seller's remorse. LL might consider a 5-minute delay to go along with their land sale window that clearly states L$/m2, shows who may take advantage of the offer, and clearly states whether objects are included or not, and their sale confirmation window.

I can think of several reasons to oppose a longer escrow period (e.g. several days), unless it is optional (and of course if it is optional then many people will fall into the same mistakes made currently). Remember how fast land prices rose back in December? I can imagine sellers setting a price, selling fast, looking around and concluding they should have asked for more, cancelling the sale, setting a higher price, selling fast, looking around and concluding they should have asked for more, cancelling the sale, setting a still higher price....etc. Not really "fair" in my book to the buyers. The escrow system would have to hold both the land and the money paid for it during the escrow period, or else we would have situations where a seller sells his land, buys another parcel with the money he earned, then have the sale cancelled; how does he pay? Cancel the second sale. This has ever-more-widely-rippling consequences that will annoy more people than originally involved. If optional, I see the escrow feature being ignored; buyers will look for land that offers immediate gratification, and escrow land therefore will need to be priced lower to have a chance against similar land not offered under escrow.

(Besides, if the issue is as #1 above, and one can end up selling land under terms one doesn't intend, one can end up selling land without escrow when escrow was intended.)

What about a red confirmation window that says, "Second Life has determined that you are making a big mistake. You are offering this land for sale at a below-market price--indeed, at a below-cost price. If you press the 'Sell the land anyway' button below, you forfeit any right to a favorable Support solution. Do you want to change the terms of sale?" "Sell the land anyway" "Oops! Let me set the land for sale to a specific person" "Oops! Let me change the price" "Cancel". (And again, if one can currently end up selling land that doesn't match what is said in the confirmation dialogue or when the client crashes before the process is completed, then there's no special reason why this should make things different.)

There is a 4th issue.

The help for the land selling is not there. this is a community education issue.

As far as all of this - code is law. but first, LL has to openly acknowledge the problems before we can consider solutions. ToS and Community Standards are implicit in parts of the code such that they don't need to be written in English/any other human language.

When LL acknowledges that there ARE problems - and at 4500 US they have not - then that is a first step.

Situations like these disgust me and there is no timely way to get Linden intervention. In real life when someone feels like they were robbed there is a court system to decide who is right and wrong. LL needs to institute something like this. An in-game button that you click to send an arbitration request regarding land parcels and all sales of those parcels are frozen until the arbitration hearing takes place. LL's attitude of "we don't get involved in resident disputes, so sorry you got screwed" Is NOT acceptable.

Lol--I never thought "OK Mr. Losangeles, we have a preliminary hearing for November" would look so good!

Look I was unaware that the land in question was the land that I just bought. I asked a simple question and receive retarded rhetoric about how "I should know what to do." what does thta mean? So I bought the land...should I just give it back? Should I just give it to the ladies in question? Look I can see the ethical dilemia that was created by this "mistake" but I didnt know. So dont feel so high and mighty on your personal SL crusade. Do I feel bad..yes..am I just going to give up 100 UD because I bought the land..no. I guess your just a good person and me (for not knowing) is so terrible. MUTED. lol

Back in the day when there was a land dispute, You would at least get mediation. A linden when available would im the person who purchased the error and just talk to them for you. Now I know that then there were 2 or 3 thousand people online at a time compaired to 30K, But when this much real money is involved I don't think asking for help is so out of line, and should get more than the standard "sorry we don't get involved" response.

You should have known what to do. Instead, after being told, you asked me what *I* wanted you to do. Well, it's not about what *I* wanted you to do at all. It never has been.

Why on Earth would you ask *me* what you should do? I informed you as to the facts, and over and over again you asked me what you should do. I'm not your boss. I'm not your conscience. But there you were in IM.

So you decided to do what you wanted to do. That's fine with me. What I can't stand is "What should I do?". It's not my property. In my eyes, it isn't yours - but possession is 9/10s of the law.

Anyone who paid after Wedware bought the first lot simply filled the pockets of someone who has about $4500 US from the community, in my eyes. But these are my eyes. What did I do? I bought the lots adjacent at 6600L a piece and put up those prims that you somehow missed. They got ALL that land for... 6600L when that ladies client crashed.

What should you do? A very good question. One that people should ask themselves, not me. I'm not a moral compass. I don't ask other people what to do, and I don't tell them what to do when they are at a crossroads.

I sit back. I watch. People do interesting things.

Strongly f*#@ing agree with the above statement. Hey LL, it was your bug that caused these losses. What are you going to do about it?

Why should any of us transact another penny in this world if its unstability continues with no reaction or action on LL's part? I have zero confidence in this company. And even less respect.

Would anyone who gets a positive outcome or reibursement from LL due to a glitch or bug please post it here. I believe their future depends on them making things right here. I know my long-term future in SL depends on it. As should yours too.

Meanwhile I sat and watched this poor woman's land get cut up and sold.

I stared at it. Sarah was there for a while. I watched. I heard one woman tell me that no one cried for her when her island went down and she lost $300 US. This was a defense, I suppose.

A few other people came over. We talked. I watched. I sent links to the forum posts here. I waited. Some left. Some stayed. One person who donated 2500L to Lucreza Ah bought a substantial amount of property there. I refunded their 2500L for them out of my pocket.

I watched.

I got to see how quickly $1500 US of land can get fenced off. I realized that these are the people who deserve Landbaron Merlin. That these are the people who create Landbaron Merlin in it's many evolutions (I heard a rumor that this is actually Landbot Hax). A friend tells me Wire Fraud. I nod. I consider it. Another friend says that sort of thing could cost everyone, and I respond that it is costing everyone. Even where Linden dollars are short, it costs dignity. As if cheap land is so hard to come by. As if "Rocking Your Box" on the land description and "Poof Your Land Is Gone" in a profile. I paid attention.

And I decided that this, combined with Linden Lab and it's lack of response was actually a well oiled machine. This must be what they want the community to be like. The community wants this so bad it would stand on it's own dead to get a piece of cheap land. I saw Elanthius's bot, and I found it interesting she did not seem to buy.

I'm going to the island, man. You mainland folks, I don't know. I really don't. I guess you deserve each other. Yes. Yes, that's it. And I can stay on my island and not watch whatever it is that you do to each other.

Elanthius was so right at the beginning. He nailed it, but you see to become jaded you need to see things like this. You need to see Linden Lab do nothing. You need to hear the rationalizations, and the odd one asking "What should I do?". Well, I don't know what you should do. I know what I would do. I know what I will do.

I will walk away, because the mainland is not worth saving. That is what I saw tonight.

Maybe that's why LL is not doing anything. Maybe this is what they want. But of course, this must be what they want. After all, why else would it be this way?

^Poetic in its sadness. Sad in its truth.

This forum isn't for general discussion; there are many Resident Sites where this discussion is appropriate — Resident Answers is for Resident-to-Resident help. I'll close this thread...

I'll jump on LL some more to do something about this.