How to lose 2000 USD.

LL should put in a safety system for sales that don't specify an individual
1. dont get added to the list for an hour after you close the dialog box
2. cannot be less than say 3 L$ per square meter. Maybe in preferences you can change that amount.

Due to the large sum involved I would contact the press or news channels doing stories on SL. Im sure many people would be interested how easy it is to lose $2000 in SL just by clicking a wrong button.
The bad publicity may make LL implement a safer system.

I think most of us feel that this greedy F**K should be just as responsible for his actions as anyone who makes an error. And theres no case to argue, everyone KNOWS this was an unetchical act on his part. Anyone who says otherwise is just looking for a debate and knows inside thats its really unethical. Ethics should play a role in sl, and YES there are sl bugs. Very often right now when I stand on an sl plot click about land to set my land for sale, the info of my plot next door pops up. I go through alot of land, I check and double check and am generally well aware of any sl land bugs because I deal with multiple plots daily. This girl, doesnt deal land, and only learned of a bug the hard way. And bug or simple error, do you honestly expect someone to just suck it up on a transaction this large? Would you honestly just say "oh shucks, I lost 2 grand, Guess you luck out Merlin!" If you say yea your full of crap. Maybe you might on a smaller transaction, but 2/3rds of a sim???

We can discuss what's right/ethical all day, also we can imagine ways how the application may be changed to lower the possibility of making mistakes.

Until something changes, the only thing we can do is double- and triple checking any transaction concerning land we are initiating before the final button is pressed.

Over $2,000, she *should* be filing a suit in small claims court. Name LL and "John Doe" as defendants, and see what happens.

For a lot of people, $2,000 isn't a trivial amount of money and she should be using the proper legal channels to get redress.

Plus, the notion that LL doesn't interfere with resident transactions is false. I personally know of several occasions when they have become involved in such matters.

By default land sales should require confirmation by the seller.

"X wants to purchase your land at Y location. He is offering Z lindens for your A size parcel. do you accept?"

Your land should only be sellable withough confimation if you CHOOSE to put it for sale that way

This current system basically is set up to foster human error by people who rarely buy or sell land.

I do land buys and sells almost daily, and while I have learned from this kind of thing to double and triple check things, I have still made mistakes in the past. On those occasions, the people involved have always done the right thing and returned my land. In addition I have also had land sales and buys go screwy due to bugs in the system. I am still waiting for 10k from LL for a parcel I bought last week that I never recieved. I have also had clicked on land and had and adjoining parcels info show up, and this is when I was standing on the land and clicked on my location on the top of the screen - this is definitely a bug!

As for this case, whether it was by a mistake or a bug is inconsequential, it is the unethical behavior of the person who swooped in on this land and refuses to step up and do the right thing that is the issue. However, this matter is bringing this kind of behavior once more into the limelight and hopefully the word will spread so that this matter can be addressed, and that people become more educated so that this kind of thing has less of a chance of happening to others.

The support of the SL community on this has been outstanding and shows that there are a lot of good and caring people here who want to make SL a better place. A big thanks goes out to everyone who has donated and supported this. Many of the large and small Real Estate and Business owners on SL as well as numerous residents have rallied behind this, and hopefully it will provoke a change in policy, as well as help these girls get their land back one way or another.

One has to be watchful when buying and selling land. I got caught once and ended up by paying 3500LS for a 32m plot when I meant to be buying the one next to it for 450LS! There were several plots in a row at 450 but one was 3500!

It also seems possible for someone who is selling a cheap plot to hover above it when a buyer turns up to look round and quickly change the price upwards hoping the potential buyer doesn't notice.

Good for him!

Buying something cheap and then selling it on is called "having good business sense" - in most societies that's considered a good thing.

I wonder if people would sing a different tune, if it was them on the end of it? Scammers that are scammed always shout the loudest LOL

yeah Manhattan was a good deal too.

Taking advantage of people isnt something to be admired.

This wasnt a bargain it was a mistake.

Man, that was one to wake up to.

This is just plain obscene. For innoncent people to get ripped off like this, albeit due to a mistake stemming from their own inexperience, turns my stomach. It should be crystal clear to EVERYBODY that the land bot problem has gotten completely out of hand and LL simply HAS to do something. The ostrich approach just wont work anymore.

I am not a whiner or a LL basher. SL is a great place and I love every minute I am in world. LL has created something truly remarkable that has a real potential for doing a countless amount of good [e.g. people from diverse countries and cultures being able to converese and interact with one another on a daily basis].

I think the entire land bot thing is dispicable. Granted, there are many, perhaps most, like Elanthius who appear to be honest in their dealings BUT the actions of a few like the guy who STOLE the land from the Italian ladies are just nothing more than thieves.

Since I have been reading the Forum, the land bot issues are the most talked about. LL has to do one of three things: (1) Eliminate land bots [this is my choice]; (2) When a problem like this is verified, freeze the account of the profiteer, return the money to the victims and bann the crook's account and his computer; or (3) admit that they have absolutely no desire and/or ability to fix the problem.

This is just disgusting, and as much as I love SL and what LL is doing here, I am disgusted by their inaction on this. Its wrong.

In my society, making things better and building community is having good business sense because it builds good customer service. I think what you are referring to would be considered "fencing" reselling stolen goods with no value added. In most societies that leads to punishment.

New Total: 102,544L

Since comments were being wrapped around that entry onto separate pages, I have created a new entry here: http://www.knowprose.com/node/17506

This is a continuance of the donations being kept track of.

I have spoken with Lucrezia Ah, and she has said she does not intend to keep the land and so at 117,000L I expect that the land will be set for sale to 21 L/m.

Lucrezia speaks better English than I do Italian. However, it is her intent for me to create a group which includes all donors, and to deed a piece of mainland to this group such that the community has some sort of reward. I am sketchy on the details, and have also warned her of tier costs on doing this so that she is aware. Thus, I will say at this time that her heart is in the right place and she is very grateful to those who have pitched in to the level where she is willing to give something back to the community.

As I know more, I will post.

Because often it really IS the "system" that is failing. Things are a complete disaster at peak times, from the building tools to the asset server, everything craps out.

I'm still grateful to you that you returned the little plot that we lost in the city sims but you have to understand that's it's very frustrating trying to work around a flawed system when you have land bots that operate at lightning speeds to take advantage of situations where "human error" was not to blame.

I will remember your comment here. I hope I don't have the opportunity to use your own words against you.

Some people do not have as many latency problems as others do. It's a fact. But saying latency issues are not there is dubious at the least. I have spoken with others who have seen similar issues.

As a reseller, I have seen divided land which has not yet been updated in the system - the green line appears or doesn't appear. I have also seen that I right click on one piece of land and get an adjacent land's information. I have also seen that when I type in information on a piece of land - such as the name of the land, etc, it does not take and actually reverts.

These I believe are latency issues. Given that this woman is in Europe (Italy), it is quite possible that this was a latency issue. Given the high packet loss at the time that this happened - documented on the Linden Blog - http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/04/06/update-on-packet-loss-problems-today/ - I cannot help but believe that this was a factor in this issue.

I do believe that Linden Lab is at the least partially responsible. But that is an opinion, and that opinion cannot be substantiated unless Linden Lab actually looks into latency issues with respect to land and finds something. Conspiracy theorists might say that they are covering up.

What I am saying is that there are latency issues which I see on a daily basis which the present land system does not address and allows for an increased risk for people.

Denying that this risk exists is folly. Sure, you may not see it today - but do you want to really be the one griping about it tomorrow?

This is an excellant point, that alot of people should take into consideration!

Just posted this in another outraged thread:

Just occurred to me: I see no landbot scripts for sale in SL.

If I'm not missing something, this may not be an internal SL matter to be settled among the residents themselves. This may be the first (to my limited knowledge) successful hack of SL that has succeeded in robbing SL - and therefore Linden Labs itself. Now this thing has already accumulated several thousand US$ in just a couple of transactions we have seen reported; God knows how much more it may have stolen from SL residents capturing and flipping properties.

Does anybody imagine the landbotters are going to just spend it all on tipping poledancers, when we are talking about enough thousands of US$ to matter to almost anyone short of Bill Gates? Does anyone think most if not all of this money will do anything but be cashed out? That is money leaving Linden Labs' pockets as well as the residents' pockets.

HOW MUCH MONEY DOES LINDEN LABS WANT TO PAY OUT TO THIS GUY FOR CHEATING LEGITIMATE SL RESIDENTS? PHILIP ROSEDALE, HOW MANY MORE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF YOUR REVENUES DO YOU WANT TO HAND OUT TO PEOPLE LIKE THIS?

Of course, I am presuming the owner(s) of the successful landbot(s) is or are not Lindens screwing over the residents. If that is the case, and I urgently hope it is not, then we will all need to leave here and go find the next best virtual reality space in the Internet and continue our leap into the future with hopefully honest people, which I still presume and hope for the Lindens to be.

Personally, I hope this gets cleaned up pronto - and I am not even a landowner, so the immediate effect on me is nil. I am just someone who thinks this is an experiment too important to be undermined and destroyed by criminals.

Posting a rant as an 'informational message' in Resident Answers is likely another of those "flaunted loopholes'.

This thread would probably be more appropriate in "Current Version Feedback".

I strongly doubt that anyone will be 'saved' from making an error by yet another anti-landbot thread. Victims come to the forums AFTER it's too late, rarely before.

I don't like landbots either and there are many changes to the whole selling process that I would love to see implemented... but the "All Sales Are Final" sign is pretty clear.

It means: Don't screw up when you're setting sales prices.

Josey, because you derived no information from it doesn't mean it is useless. It means that you find it useless. Therefore, I see no reason to further explain myself when the rest of the thread outweighs what opinion you have offered. Thank you for your wisdom.

My guess is more than $2,000 US.

However, I won't say that Landbaron Merlin *cheated* the system, I will say that such bots take advantage of what I *believe* are a mixture of latency issues and human error. Some people screw up. It happens. I have in the past, and have always acknowledged it.

However, when I have had mistakes happen when I have verified issues - I have filed bug reports, etc. And I have complained, as I imagine others have. It is easy for some to say that it is *always* human error - as if they cannot make an error themselves - but I do believe that within these problems are legitimate latency issues.

These latency issues should be addressed, but I somehow doubt that Linden Lab can do this within their own geographical back yard because - guess what - they probably wouldn't have the latency issue there. And depending on open source client programmers is silly - the fact that the landbots do exist speaks directly to the fact that programmers do not and should not be expected to work for free. Programming can be intensive work, and the few landbot owners I do know do spend a bit of time working on their code - probably because they make money doing so.

So - who looks into the latency issue? There are two things that need to be looked at. First, LL has to acknowledge that some of these errors may be due to latency. I mean - give it that much. The second thing is that they have to address it.

Now the question is - how much money has to be lost before this is done? The answer is certainly obvious: More than has been lost so far.

Yea because no one plans on losing 2K due to a bug or otherwise ahead of time. Most people arn't aware of landbots until it's to late. And yet anouther landbot thread raises awarness on this issue, so it can indeed save a few people. Show a little compassion. These girl's lost alot of real money. Not a few L, but 2Kusd. Of all the valid points and wonderful shows of support in this thread you have choosen to knit pick about BS that doesnt really matter like the catagory you feel it should be under.

After looking at other threads, I guess this is what he does, goes from forum to forum as the catagory police. Doesnt make points, just knit picks about the stupist of things. Like this one.....



Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,691

Please use the "Current Version Feedback" forum to rant about Landbots.

Your right the Landbots owner didnt cheat the system - He/she cheated the Land Seller.