Blue Mars beta
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-10-2009 17:01
From: Argent Stonecutter I'm not a lawyer. I am, however, a programmer who has contributed patches to the Second Life client and who has decades of experience in real-time control systems. You say you're not a programmer, but somehow you're more certain than I am that SL has reached its peak and it's all downhill from here.
Sure you can. Software projects that have been built by many people tend to be more flexible and adaptable than ones that have been built by a single company. Compare, for example, UNIX and its descendants with Windows.
Yet another reason I think it's far from premature to write off Second Life.
I see ways to offer new servers where the new system will work with all the old content. I see ways to use the old servers with a new client with a completely different graphics engine. I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate... whoops, wrong story. I've watched systems change and evolve over 30 years, from command lines and the first graphical user interfaces, and today's Mac and Linux support _all the same objects and programs_ that we were running on the PDP-11s 30 years ago.
I can imagine an open source system like Second Life is becoming lasting another 30 years. I don't see that happening to the 3d equivalents of VMS and the Xerox Star system, no matter if they're "better" right now. I was actually sitting among the Lindens listening to a speech while reading and posting here. It was very quiet there - too quiet actually. They should be all here reading this thread instead -   By the way- NAM NAM NAM - Pluto is still a planet . |
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Dave Herbst
Registered User
Join date: 4 Sep 2004
Posts: 343
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06-10-2009 17:11
From: Gabriele Graves Nobody can give those kinds of assurances, if it is on someones local machine then it can be hacked open eventually. Agreed, this goes back to your earlier comment that "governance and enforcement is the key". SL's TOS clearly states you cannot infringe on the IP rights of others, yet it happens everyday in epidemic proportions. Rules are totally useless, unless you have the teeth to enforce them, consistently. "Teeth" and "consistent" are terms foreign to LL's G-team. Reverse engineering will always be an issue in any codebase, but referring to the WoW model again, they have safeguards in their client, which detects bots, OpenGL Rippers, gold spammers etc. Wow will not think twice to close your account if you are found to be violating the EULA. Unlike LL, who will gladly accept any nickle they can get, which is penny-wise and pound-foolish. WoW realizes banning one bad actor will not alienate anyone, but actually invites more users, because they know it's not a cesspool for abuse. That's the biggest turnoff of all and SL would be alot bigger and successful with higher retention, if it was widely known they don't tolerate hackers and scammers. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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06-10-2009 17:16
From: Rock Vacirca Sorry, I was referring to creators only, should have made that more clear. The chap in the other thread had created a lot of stuff for his business, and had lost it all (along with stuff he had bought), so he could not resurrect his business. Fair enough but what kind of idiot doesn't make a backup of their important creations in SL these days? Reading that thread I have even less sympathy, he could have sold his holdings and made his account basic again long before LL closed it for him - why would anyone not do that if they didn't want to lose everything?
_____________________
 Trout Rating: I'm giving you an 8.2 on the Troutchter Earth-Movement Slut Scale. You are an amazing, enchanting woman, and, when the situation calls for it, a slut of the very best sort. Congratulations and shame on you!
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Dekka Raymaker
thinking very hard
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
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06-10-2009 18:03
From: Gabriele Graves Fair enough but what kind of idiot doesn't make a backup of their important creations in SL these days? Reading that thread I have even less sympathy, he could have sold his holdings and made his account basic again long before LL closed it for him - why would anyone not do that if they didn't want to lose everything? Depression, people lose their real life property too with depression, so you shouldn't be surprised at all. |
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Gabriele Graves
Always and Forever, FULL
Join date: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 6,205
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06-10-2009 18:13
From: Dekka Raymaker Depression, people lose their real life property too with depression, so you shouldn't be surprised at all. Well, you do have a good point there and I have seen that myself in some people I have known in the past. I spoke too hastily  I have to admit it is hard to imagine being there myself though. Certainly I have lost my primary source of income before but I guess I am lucky in the fact I have never become so depressed by it or anything else that it immobilises me to the point where I lose more valuable stuff due to it. My advice to anyone is backup as you go, that way you don't need to lose stuff at all.
_____________________
Trout Rating: I'm giving you an 8.2 on the Troutchter Earth-Movement Slut Scale. You are an amazing, enchanting woman, and, when the situation calls for it, a slut of the very best sort. Congratulations and shame on you!
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Poppet McGimsie
Proprietrix, WUNDERBAR
Join date: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 197
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06-10-2009 20:22
From: Rock Vacirca
I shall raise as a suggestion to BM that if a city is ever deleted because of non-payment or for any reason, that the rights of tenants within that city be protected, and their purchased items should be safeguarded. I am not sure how the objects purchased by tenants can be safeguarded, if the tenant defaults, or is absent for an extended period (suggestions please).
Rock
This is the sort of thing that terrifies me about new efforts: there will be lots of pretty serious issues like these that will come up, and unfortunatly many are not anticipated. It is the adaptation of something to realities like this, scores of them, that result in a simply shiny new things getting dings and dents and difficulties. From: Rock Vacirca
Currently BM are responding positively to a large proportion of suggestions made by the beta developers.
Where is that happening? In irc? I see nothing at all happening over there in the forums and websites, and I check every day. If it is happening in irc, then I worry too because, well, that just doesn't seem very ... scalable or even very professional -- and smacks a lot of a coupla guys working out of a garage. But maybe somehow I just have not stumbled onto the 1000 times as muvh information as I kind of think there should be before I worry that something is worthy of serious consideration... |
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Novis Dyrssen
Girl Geek
Join date: 6 May 2007
Posts: 1,452
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06-11-2009 03:12
From: Dekka Raymaker Depression, people lose their real life property too with depression, so you shouldn't be surprised at all. Might be, but that is no excuse to blame LL now for his own shortcomings and oversights.
_____________________
~~ immortal words of Rob Thomas ~~
Hey-yeah, welcome to the Real World
Nobody told you it was gonna be hard
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Dekka Raymaker
thinking very hard
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
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06-11-2009 03:15
From: Novis Dyrssen Might be, but that is no excuse to blame LL now for his own shortcomings and oversights. Actually if you read the OPs posts he seems quite pragmatic about it, he doesn't go on a rant about how 'evil' LL are at all. |
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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06-11-2009 03:58
From: Poppet McGimsie
Where is that happening? In irc? I see nothing at all happening over there in the forums and websites, and I check every day. I
A lot is discussed in irc, but summaries are usually in the dev forum there. Check the Suggestions board, and check the first post, last sentence, about the new Client. Rock |
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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06-11-2009 04:11
From: Dekka Raymaker Actually if you read the OPs posts he seems quite pragmatic about it, he doesn't go on a rant about how 'evil' LL are at all. Correct, he didn't. Other posters in that thread were pointing out LL's shortcomings. I think it is shameful that Premium Members are treated worse than free accounts, in that 60 days after missing a payment you can have all your inventory deleted, while a free account user can go absent for a year and still find his inventory intact on his return. That is not right, and that is why there is a jira, and it speaks volumes that since that jira was created in Nov 2008 it has had not one reply from a Linden, and is still currently 'unassigned' after 6 months (2 months v. 6 months, shortcomings, hmmm). Rock |
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Novis Dyrssen
Girl Geek
Join date: 6 May 2007
Posts: 1,452
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06-11-2009 04:13
From: Dekka Raymaker Actually if you read the OPs posts he seems quite pragmatic about it, he doesn't go on a rant about how 'evil' LL are at all. And I didn't say that. He still puts the fault for his own oversights to LL. And let's face it, he could have done numerous things to prevent this.
_____________________
~~ immortal words of Rob Thomas ~~
Hey-yeah, welcome to the Real World
Nobody told you it was gonna be hard
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Imagin Illyar
Owner, Willowdale Estates
Join date: 6 Feb 2008
Posts: 290
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06-11-2009 06:56
I think that LL does share some blame here. If he was a free customer this wouldn't have happened. LL doesn't need to close accounts that aren't paid, they could just make them free accounts and this wouldn't have happened.
I don't think Blue Mars is even going to have paid accounts for regular users.
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Poppet McGimsie
Proprietrix, WUNDERBAR
Join date: 28 Jul 2006
Posts: 197
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06-11-2009 08:06
From: Rock Vacirca A lot is discussed in irc, but summaries are usually in the dev forum there.
Check the Suggestions board, and check the first post, last sentence, about the new Client.
Rock If that's the case, then there really isn't much happening and I suspect this is just another tempest in a teapot, upon which people are investing all their dreams and hopes about an imaginary online utopia where everything is perfect. I will still try out the sandbox and watch how it develops, and even migrate there if it does take over SL's market share, but right now, I have so very many things I want to do and to see in SL, and I (call me a fanboi) trust the Lindens to keep at the painful process (and omg it is painful, given how much people scream and yell with each profound change like havok 4 and windlight and sculpties and mono...) of evolving this platform. PS It is very easy to claim that you have a revolutionary new platform capable of hosting thousands of avatars per region, when you have not defined what a region is, and you have never had thousands of peoples, or even hundreds of them, attempting to access a region. Show me the data, then maybe I will believe it. |
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-11-2009 08:35
From: Novis Dyrssen And I didn't say that. He still puts the fault for his own oversights to LL. And let's face it, he could have done numerous things to prevent this. like you could just ignore this - if you cant help - and stay on topic here - which is BM |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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06-11-2009 08:52
Can't resist any longer...
IBM
UBM
We all BM
for IBM
-- David Gerrold, _When H.A.R.L.I.E. Was One_
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Novis Dyrssen
Girl Geek
Join date: 6 May 2007
Posts: 1,452
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06-11-2009 08:58
Ava, you make me laugh. 
_____________________
~~ immortal words of Rob Thomas ~~
Hey-yeah, welcome to the Real World
Nobody told you it was gonna be hard
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-11-2009 08:59
From: Argent Stonecutter Can't resist any longer...
IBM
UBM
We all BM
for IBM
-- David Gerrold, _When H.A.R.L.I.E. Was One_ Smiles Is there a chance we both make our very first step into BM, at the same time? (never mind the look lol) We could also make a SL gang - a big group that meets in the BM welcome area at the same time... I know many BM newbies will be (F)emale (B)ody (I)inspectors anyway Fast Edit modus: I will find you all ....anyway ... |
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-11-2009 09:01
From: Novis Dyrssen Ava, you make me laugh. I want you happy |
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Arcady Yue
Sex Kitten
Join date: 19 May 2009
Posts: 160
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06-11-2009 09:09
The whole appeal of SL is that its community created and community driven.
Looks at most of the recent complaints. They all share one thing in common:
"LL, stop messing with -OUR- sandbox."
Residents here, regardless of how they feel about any one issue or piece of content, all seem to feel that SL is theirs / ours. People seem to want LL's around only to the extent of making sure the thing keeps working, and everyone keeps being able to control their part of the playground.
Making a variation that is driven by the developers? That's just an MMORPG. Why bother?
_____________________
 “It gets you nowhere if the other person's tail is only just in sight for the second half of the conversation.” “Rivers know this: there is no hurry. We shall get there some day.” - Pooh Bear, paraphrasing Tao
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Novis Dyrssen
Girl Geek
Join date: 6 May 2007
Posts: 1,452
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06-11-2009 09:17
From: Ava Velde I want you happy No you don't. 
_____________________
~~ immortal words of Rob Thomas ~~
Hey-yeah, welcome to the Real World
Nobody told you it was gonna be hard
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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06-11-2009 09:55
From: Ava Velde Is there a chance we both make our very first step into BM, at the same time? Not unless there's a ferret avatar available.  |
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-11-2009 10:32
From: Argent Stonecutter Not unless there's a ferret avatar available.
It is may hard to get humans on the Mars but some ferrets are already there   |
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Novis Dyrssen
Girl Geek
Join date: 6 May 2007
Posts: 1,452
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06-11-2009 10:34
From: Ava Velde It is may hard to Don't you mean "It may be hard to..."? 
_____________________
~~ immortal words of Rob Thomas ~~
Hey-yeah, welcome to the Real World
Nobody told you it was gonna be hard
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-11-2009 10:37
From: Argent Stonecutter Not unless there's a ferret avatar available.
It is may hard to get humans on the Mars but easy to put the ferret in the editor |
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Ava Velde
Registered User
Join date: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 310
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06-11-2009 10:42
From: Novis Dyrssen Don't you mean "It may be hard to..."? he - she - it - das "s" muss mit ! alles andere is slang und der Gipfel der grammatikalischen Freschheit |