Servers going Open Source?

Well the remark was more of a ASSUMPTION then anything else......I can`t figure out what they meant. But hten again the reasoning makes no sence to start with.
I too doubt either has any meaning to reasoning of what this topic is about.........

Usagi you really could be more polite at times I dont think I said anything that deserved your comment in this style.

Im aware there might be language issues.

I made it very clear that there were discussions on this sort of thing, if you werent a forums regular then, or didnt pay attention to them, thats not my fault.

the BASIC concept is that

As the 3D web expands the need for an artifical economy will disapear.


The details on how that would play out are unknowns.

Umm... You know it's possible to find out your IP without open source at all, right?

At least, if you watch in-world video or listen to in-world audio streams, your IP address is pretty easily obtained...



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Not even necessary. If you come within range of my land (works a lot of times when you aren't even over my land, just in view), I can force the playing of a movie, which then gives me your IP address. No manual interaction required

yeah.... There REALLY IS NO PRIVACY in Second Life.


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Servers going Open Source?

Sure! Can you imagine the income for the payed support version :0 !

Of course it can man.

That's what copyright law exists for. I could quite merrily rip off a hundred users right now for their object textures and post them up on my website for sale as '3d textures' - perhaps even pimp them at somewhere like TurboSquid.

Your recourse would then be to file a 'cease and desist' / have my website taken down by my ISP / sue me into oblivion.

That's the way IP law works.

I think Yumi was thinking more of DRM, than IP. Official sims have some protection against the copying in the first place.

However, it should be made clear that the LL protection has failed more than once, leaving items full mod/copy/transfer, and things like textures can be ripped off wholesale with a change in the OpenGL driver you use. Any texture the viewer sees can be ripped.

How do you force the playing of a movie if the user has all streaming turned off at the client level?

Seems I made a mistake in another thread (I said it was possible if you have quicktime installed). If videos are disabled at the client level, it fails. However, if they are enabled at the client level, they can be forced to play whether you click play or not.
A forced play also works outside of your own land (I can trigger it on my neighbours land, and even in to the next sim).

All that is needed is an avatars key, which means anyone within 96m of your land is a potential target.

As long as Linden maintains them on their servers, fine. But if they are placed on 3rd party servers what guarantee do we have that they will be secure. Is LL going to monitor all the out side servers?

As you just quite eloquently pointed out, DRM (in most if not all cases) is irrelevant as it can be easily circumvented.

The law is the best tool but it must be used wisely.

when are they gonna start monitoring their local servers?

Exactly. They seem to be having a hard enought time managing their resources as it is in house. Out sourcing is fine. As long as the outsource is reputable and competent.

Ugh, enough...

Does anyone have a comment here from an actual Linden regarding this? I stumbled across it (the article where SL staff talk about solid plans to open source sims) on Google and I wanted to get the Linden line on things, namely:

* Is there a timeline?
* What kind of hardware do I need?
* What will it cost
* What will it be able to do?

Does anyone have a resource where a Linden comes out and gives some definitive statement on this, post revelation about serious thinkings about open sourcing sims?

I don;t know how old that article uis but as of last week I can say with 99% certainty that opening the server source is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Not anytime soon, very likely never. LL is actually making money on the server hosting and they can't afford to lose that.

And even if that hurdle is overcome (By charging you $200 a month to connect to their asset servers?) they will not release the source now with it's current archetecture which allow INSANE amouts of access to resources for full object/script copying, IM spying and possibly even database hacking.

SL has "wised up" at what utter foolery that would be and has completely backed off of their promise of opening it by summers end. The list of conditions that have to be met for a full server opening are so onerous that they may NEVER happen.

Do not hold your breath.

I wish I had a hammer to hit someone on the knees each time they put words in the mouth of a corporation.

I have two communications from Philip Linden letting me know open sourcing is something the company wants to do, but they have issues to address first.

Without adding a shred of personal opinion or your own spin on this, does anyone happen to have a statement, from Linden Labs or staff who work for said organisation, made AFTER the article(s) I mentioned, which discusses the issue of open source sims?

If you don't have something from Linden Lab staff or the company itself, just don't say anything. Zip.

Thankyou.

What is relevant about the server software becoming open source, is that it is inevitable for the logical expansion of the 2D Internet and integration of a 3D web, blurring the lines between them.

For all those sceptics, look back in the near past. The Education departments for whom the framework of the internet as we know it today, were asked to ‘open source’ that concept, cry’s of ‘the sky is falling’ rung around the world. Companies throughout the 1990’s were very cautious about putting any potential IP information, graphics, even brochures on the internet, shouting ‘IP theft’. Using a CC or other payment method were introduced, many resisted that for the longest time, shouting ‘Massive fraud and theft will occur’. Using cookies to track users online, resulted in outraged organisations bellowing ‘Identity theft and Privacy Issues’. The adoption of email brought terror to many as being ‘non-contractual and impersonal’.

For anyone that thinks the best form of dealing across the multi-national boundaries, is only safe by telephone, snail mail and possibly fax, don’t read further.

The very nature of 3D web open source servers, has to and will happen irrespective of how many people cry their predictions. What’s more, Second Life announcing this, is not a new concept at all. As I have posted many time before, LL are not the first to develop a 3D environment, let alone make this open source. Adobe’s Atmosphere had done this long before LL had the first lines of code written for SL.

The whole concept was based on a bespoke browser linking to Adobe’s host servers, where ‘Worlds’ (Sims) were hosted, they also provided a chat server. Within a very short time, they released a Browser plug-in that would work with Netscape and IE, negating the bespoke version, followed by the ‘server side’ code. Within weeks enthusiasts such as myself had created our own Worlds using simple 3d programmes and hosted them on simple web host servers, many even hosted them on the own PC’s. The chat servers were relatively simple to set up and cheap to run. Adobe’s concept was to encourage users to develop their own set of worlds which could be interlinked via the TP points installed into each world. Individuals created bespoke worlds for companies and organisations, to act as common meeting places and a place to showcase their wares in a 3D environment… in other words, the forefather to the 3D Internet. Within the code was http linking to the 2D web, with development scope to draw in ‘outside’ content and linking to websites for the introduction of a payment/commerce system.

Despite Adobe removing support and future upgrades to the programme (for reasons only known to themselves), it still flourishes, albeit in small numbers.

The provision of the open source server code from LL, will no doubt take time for adoption. In any event, I predict that companies/corporations will be using this, perhaps in the first instance to use as linked worlds (Sims) for each department, via an intranet, where commerce is not required. Later they may then develop ‘outfacing’ 3D Sims to the general cyber public. The internal and encapsulated economy of the L$ will only be used for those that wish to use the environment as a closed session, but stronger links to commerce layers across the globe will develop very quickly. LL realise this and will probably maintain the ‘in world’ token economy for a period of time, until everyone adopts the outfacing commerce. I imagine the issue of IP being muted, in much the same way as the development of commerce on the Internet. Creators in SL, will still be able to maintain their cocoon trading, with the option of CC/Online banking services. A CC is being launched into SL this month, which signals the beginning of the process.

With regard to people worrying about their items being stolen whilst on ‘off game Sims’, the chances are, you won’t be allowed to create anything on those Sims, no more than you can create anything you like on a website you don’t own. You will be able to enjoy the facilities provided, even if that is at a cost. I imagine a VR Disney, or Paris Shopping Mall, recreation of a Museum, and even Film festival preview Sims, all where you use your CC to use them.

I foresee LL role will be the continuing development of the server-side code, including introducing the Havoc 2+ code, maintaining the cocoon economy, account holding to ‘public/private hosted’ Sims and ‘welcome islands’ etc. There is no doubt their name will go down in history.


JMHO

I'll bet you a shiny Linden that your wrong. I'd expect it to be at least announced by the end of '07, if not sooner.

Mari
(it's a very, very safe bet)

Just some thoughts -

Wont opening the Server side will encourage people Linden Lab's SecondLife on their server rather than some competitor on the horizon?

Meaning if LL keeps a really tight grip on all Second Life Access and hosting, people will develop competing virtual worlds eventually.

But if modifying the open source server software lets people get their server up and ties into the big LL Secondlife grid somehow ..

Encouraging people to join them instead of trying to beat them...

As a matter of fact everything I said came from a linden

I cannot post the words verbatim or this thread and maybe even my account will be locked.

I gave a factual answer, feel free to ignore it if you don't like it.

I think this is the front-and-center idea behind the open source strategy, and precisely the reason that it must happen, as soon as they can manage to do it.

Was your Linden speaking officially on behalf of the company, or just speculating or offering a personal opinion? I have a little first hand knowledge myself that Jsecure is pretty much correct, unless they have suddenly and mysteriously pulled the plug on the idea.

They have not pulled the plug on the idea. Because they announced their "commitment" to it, it would be somewhat suicidal to officially pull the idea.

I mean how often has LL "committed" to doing something and then just utterly failed to come through? Havok 2, Mono, etc... only to blind side is with other projects?

They have come to the realisation that there are HUGE problems with releaseing the source at this time and internally have a large list of concerns need to be overcome and frankly are almost laughably insurmountable thus my own conjecture that it may never happen. It was their words that said not any time soon.

I was personally /hoping/ it would happen. I am one of the more dissapointed people

I suspect I may have the same deep knowledge as you on this. Maybe said Linden source was not being exactly truthful?

Mari