Servers going Open Source?

Well.... Hmm....

There are actually a few reasons you don't hear much of the good stuff coming from the open source viewer. First, it pales in comparison to the "OMGBOTS!!!!" hysteria, it's just little important stuff for the most part. Second, if it's an exploit being fixed, you dont want to know about it. The Forums would break under the load if someone posted about exploits before they were closed, but you would get some attention that way I wager. I posted about one months after it was fixed, should be easy enough to find if you look

As to the quality of the code, it's pretty decent actually. Every software developer knows that in the normal course of a product's lifetime the quality of code degrades over time as layer upon layer is added to meet each new requirement or bug fix.

So, normally an application that has undergone four years of continual development - and has evolved as far as Second Life has - is either horribly fragile and nearly unmaintainable or has been worked on by very smart people who know how to refactor thier code in smart ways in order to keep the quality of the code high enough to support continued development. The Second Life viewer shows many of the signs of the latter and perhaps a few signs of the former in places.

But it is still a relatively mature, enormously complex application in terms of what any average script kiddie is capable of grokking.

I can only imagine that the server side must be at least an order of magnitude more complex. There are hints in the protocol files that there are at least logically a presence server, an asset server, a space server, etc, etc. There is an enormous amount of talk between all of the backend components in order to pull off the digital magic that is Second Life, and that is something no average script kiddie in the world is capable of wrapping their brain around.

At best, they might be able to find a little loophole, small attack vector, the obvious stuff for people that are looking for it. But for every exploit that can be found by the wannabe hacker, there will be highly qualified developers dedicated to eradicating such problems, many for personal or professional reasons.

And... Since people will be building businesses on this platform, it is not out of the realm of imagination to think that there will actually be people "on the payroll" maintaining server-side code for larger businesses, much like there are *nix admins in the IT world who get paid to maintain open source operating systems as part of the critical infrastructure of the company. Multiply that by a couple of big companies that want to have an in-world presence and have deep pockets....

Right now Second Life is a relatively small, provincial node in what it could become. A ubiquitous 3D web will in many ways mirror the WWW. One of those ways is that there will be many people dedicated to making it work for personal or professional reasons. The WWW can be said to run on open source and standards, and the world at large has a vested interest in keeping it that way, and keeping it running smoothly. Second Life will be the same, eventually.




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There is no point to my post. I have absolutley no idea what open sourcing the servers will mean to me(probably very little). If it helps you create your own sim great. If it s apublic place I may possibly visit it and spend money there. Saying I think open source is bad or I am anti open source would be giving me way too much of an understanding of the subject, which I don't have. Nor am I interested in. I really don't care how SL works, just that it works well enough for me to enjoy. That is the point of my post. I am rarely hysterical. Or serious for that matter.

Okay, gotcha I must have you confused with someone else that was quite prolific in the anti-open source activism. There's so many.....

I edited my post you quoted a bit to point to your response.



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I hadn't noticed........ But it was an excellently stated point. Sorry you had to waste it on the wrong person.

Very true, RobbyRacoon. I didn't think of it in that way, because I don't even know enough code to know what to look for under the hood. *peers* What's this big loud thing sitting there?

I just heard one of my code-savvy friends nearly die of a heart attack from trying to sort it is all. Now, I'll know they aren't the coder they claim to be

I'm still kind of going to be "eh" about all this. I love SL the way it is and for it to become the new internet kind of sucks the fun from it for me. But then again, if they make that server code more idiot friendly, then I might feel a whole lot better about it.

Well, surely I will get another chance Despite all the evil that could possibly be done with open source, I still insist on believing that in the long run it will be a good thing.



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If your friend claims to be a good coder, I see no reason not to believe them. But maybe it's because I have spent most of my dev years as a contractor jumping into the middle of other people's code with no roadmap that it doesn't scare me as much.

It *is* quite true that the SL viewer code is poorly commented, not documented at all (that I know of), and it's not obvious how everything plays together. But when I say it's not bad, it's because many of the parts I've bothered to look at are internally consistent and the coding style itself is not too horrible. For instance, I needed to know why the hell you get stuck if you play an animation while your avatar is in the beginning of a jump, and was able to find that without much trouble. I wanted to make a personal-use viewer that had a greater degree of precision in the edit tools, and was able to do that within about 20 minutes, too.

So... Yeah... I can't claim to have a full grasp on the viewer code anymore than your friend does, but I know the code was clean enough and understandable enough for me to accomplish certain important tasks even though I haven't used C++ in three years.


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Open sourcing the server code, combined with libsl and the open source client, will give birth to ServerBot!

It will log into its own self with multiple avatars and buy it's own mispriced land and objects and sell them back to itself at massively increased prices, ban itself from its own property, copy its objects and textures and file DMCA notices against its own self, drive itself mad by asking itself how to get the box off its hand over and over and over, spam itself with notecards, build giant full light objects and file abuse reports against itself for doing so. All without the slightest need of human intervention.

That will leave us free to try Hipihi and Splume.

Funny scenario

Hmmm... Haven't heard of Splume, but Hipihi looks pretty darned cool. If only I spoke Chinese....



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Open-Source Server = Neutralization of the SL platform = SL becomes a viable worldwide alternative to the internet.

I am 110% with you... YIKES! Well SL was fun while it lasted. Back to normal chat rooms I guess.

Becuase of Prok - Banning on the forums equals an in game ban - you might want to reconsider this request.

It means -


there goes the neighborhood.


literally.

Why do you think that? I know you are no fan of open source, but can you elaborate some?


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I mean, literally -

People will be moving neighborhoods onto their own servers rather than LL's.

And how do you know im no fan of open source? lol I dont think Ive ever commented on it before.

-Dang first you mistake my girlfriend for someone else and now me, lol.

Time for a lil powernap, I think.

You may be right I am in need of some sleep I think.

Nevertheless, I am quite curious to hear more about why you think that will be "there goes the neighborhood".


[Edit] That cinches it. I do need a nap. I didn't see where you actually already answered that because I have my preferences set to paginate differently than the default, and it was on the previous page. Sheesh.


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I didn't know you had a girlfriend..............

musta all been a dream.

Very Soon sim opens can host there own server with their island in it! At that time someone wil have the abilty to read everything about each and every user on their island. scary really.

Now it makes sense that the sims do not hold any inventory. Technically that would have made the system more scalable, but financially, it means LL still control assets even if you run your own server!

Maybe she was a LezBot.....

You realize that what this will really be used for is taking the clothes off the avies one is talking to, and checking their inventory for kinky sex toys so you can laugh at them when they're gone.

I think it's good news overall, although it sounds like LL is planning to drop the land business entirely. I'd like to know more details though, of course.

The one big thing I'd like to see in SL by then is content simulated on an ownership basis instead of region basis: scripts and physics for your stuff would run on the share of the sim you own land in, using a ratio of the sim's resources related to the ratio of land that is owned by you in this sim, instead of running on the simulator tied to whatever region they happen to geographically be inside of.

Owner-key would determine what sim the viewer asks updates from for a given object. Possibly use the same method for sending your avatar's updates ? That would seperate land and performance, and remove sim boundary crossing troubles (the one big handover for everything - including movement - is replaced by lots of tiny handovers for content), as well as make performance "fairer".

It would even allow to later make it possible that you run your own side-simulator on your own computer: content running on that side-simulator would only be visible for people around you, and them alone, while not being sent to LL's databases at all, ensuring privacy or providing a way to "try" things (and show them inworld !) before definitely uploading them. That could also provide a framework for scripting new capabilities into Second Life.

There is another thing that could allow connecting all the third-party servers together into a single economy: supplementing the L$ with a social-network credit (also known in the rest of the world as "hawala".

This is the problem in a nutshell.

Thanks Robby.