Ginko Has Not Allowed Withdraws For Over A Day Now...

I am considering it, but at this time the short answer is "No."




I have never, ever, made such an argument.




I see no reason to replace Luke as Hope Capital's manager.




Same as 1.




I have no idea, but I doubt it.




Yes. As far as I am aware, we are not at all involved in such activities, be it directly or indirectly, or any other of the sort.

Blaming your victims? That's low even for you.

Except nobody here is my "victim". Anyone who is convinced we are a ponzi scheme cannot ethicaly demand their money "back", because it would not be -their- money. It would be a deliberate act of fraud.

Indeed. Many people in the entertainment business have false names. It must be something to do with being able to prove that that false name affected you RL, and here, I guess there would be something in that (by here I mean Second Life and not this particular dispute).

I can't see LL touching this dispute with a bargepole, their sudden announcement of the gambling ban has undoubtedly had an impact here (not LL's fault that this scheme was setup, so not their problem).

However the bigger problem is the theft issue and again, it's not LL's fault that the person alleged to have stolen from the WSE was able to do so.

Are you saying that you believe that if a person has taken and spent someone's money--money obtained by fraud--the victim of the fraud has no moral or legal claim against the perpetrator for the return of their money?

There goes what was left of the credibility you had...

Broccoli

Look i read these forums im not worried im concerned with the smack talk going on i ask nicholas one thing and i be a happy customer ..
IS my account safe?
if so and i have no intention of withdrawing in panic like those who have so far..

I read those who are speculating in this arguements I would like to ask those that point the finger Have u money invested in Ginko?
cos if you havent why are u bothering to get involved in unessesery drama cos all you are doing is breeding panic and that in turn will hurt the investors here and this is my opinion like it or not..

have to agree with Broccoli on this , this is a pretty twisted application of "logic".

That's obviously not what I'm saying.

I certainly don't, I'm not that stupid.

The responses I've seen here sure haven't triggered me to want to, either.

Broccoli

So what did you intend to say?

If you believe that the only way for me to pay you is by defrauding others, and you demand that I pay you, you are demanding that I defraud others for your benefit.

This is all irrelevant though, because:

1 - This is not a ponzi scheme.

and

2 - When people made deposits, they forfeited the right to have their money on demand. This happened either because they read and accepted the terms we offer, or because they gave us money without doing so (which in practice, is a gift which we would have absolutely no obligation to return). We assume that everyone has read, understood and accepted the terms, but if you have not, that is not -our- fault.


I was merely pointing out the inconsistency involved in demanding to be paid back while believing that your money has already been spent to further a fraud.

Actually this isnt a smear campaign - people have raised alarms about ginko and similar investments schmes from the begining.

Look through Nicholas' prior posts.

They stretch back to 2005 and nearly all are involved with him attempting to defend Ginko as not a Ponzi or scam.

Anytime an investment promises a rate of return hugely better than the highest risk legitimate funds produce it should be expected to defend itself from scrutiny.

wait so you wont even let people know what risk value the bonds have? In that statement I would call them amazingly high risk beyond what anyone in real world would touch as a high risk bond.

Well now that you open your keyboard there is now a whole lot more evidence this is possibly an illegal scheme however blaming those who put money in the bank and calling them willing and active participants is also typical. The fact that someone wants their money out of what is said to be a sinking ship and you refusing to give it and blaming the victim shows you have some messed up morals and ethics.

At this point refusal to give people's money back based on your own typing and answers to questions and the fact you wont even let people asses using a qualified accountant if the bonds are low/medium or high risk is kinda leaning towards broken laws in that if you were legit there would be nothing much to hide and people could decide to invest or not and save your bank. The fact you dont want to position yourself for a cash infusion using legitimate means can mean a lot of things perhaps there are no real books of anykind which is understandible as this is only "a game" but at the same time the lindens in this game to have a value so.

This and the fact you tried to put a scare into anyone who might report you to the feds makes it more suspect.

The only question remains is about what date do you intend to disappear without a trace? cause the rest is looking pretty shady even to me a person who tends to give someone the benefit of the doubt until he can get enough info that the fact are wacking him in the head screaming scam or fraud. Right now i'm deaf!

please by all means prove me wrong so that those with tons of lindens in your banking machine have some hope?

I don't have money in Ginko, because I think the evidence stronly implies that Ginko is a ponzi scheme. No legitimate financial institution can reliablely pay the interest rates Ginko purports to offer. I have not just started warning people about Ginko (and similar SL "banks"; I've been doing it for close to two years now.

As for hurting the investors, I disagree. What will hurt the investors of Ginko is to continue to pour money into it, and not try to recover what they can. My warnings are intended to urge investors to get what they can out while it is still possible, and to prevent people from putting their money at risk in the future.

huh?

If people invest money with you but dont read the terms first you are not obligated to return their money?

What the heck is this about?

If you sell an investment opportunity and you accept people's money you are obligated to live up to your terms to the best of your ability.

Period.

What do you base your analysys on ? RL ?

Ok, lets see:

Annual economical growth in virtual worlds: 400%
Annual economical growth in China: 13%
Annual interrest rates in China: 6,84%
Annual interrest rates in sl: 150% (avg)

So the growth-to-interrest rates ratio is as follows:

China: 1,9
Sl: 2,67

In other words for Sl banks to match Chinas growth-to-interrest-rate ratio they would have to jack up interrest rates to close to 200% a year.

Other factors that allows sl banks to operate profitabely at interrest rates of 20% or more monthly, many banks offer mortgage loans, many of them 100% secured in land, but still the interest rates can often vary from 20-30% a month. You may well call it a ponzi, but isnt it a ponzi that in rl you have to bribe (under the flag of "donation" politicians to pass bills ? Or that FDIC/SEC is so corrupt that companies can pay them off in order to remove a competetitor, perhaps you'd call it corruption, i call it ponzi above all ponzis. Wich is a ponzi the RL corruption or the sl banking interrest rates ? Think about it.

Except for the fact that the Linden$ is tied to the USD$ and not a seperate economy.

It is a seperate economy, if wallmart in usa is to layoff 40% of it's labour does that affect the sl economy ? (since most of sl users are from europe, i realy doubt that)

As for the Lindex, it doesnt matter if it says USD or £ or Euro, personally i use NOK (Norwegian kroner) when i invest into sl, this currency is mostly tied to oil prices, while USD was on it's way down past 12 months it went from 6,20 NOK/USD to 5,70. This means i can now invest lesser NOK to get same amount of L$ compared to last year, something that means i now have a higher Purchasing Power. When we're on it, i expect the NOK/USD ratio to be around 4 the next 12 months, and euro to reach a new high vs usd, something that will only create even higher Purchasin Power.

In a world where less than 30% of it's users are from USA i would not call the economy "tied" to USA's. (and this number is declining)

It would if the walmart employees were sl players because they would have less disposable income to buy land, pay tier and buy lindens etc the SL economy is proped up by people who put real world cash into the system at will its totally fake. Even the high gas rates in the USA are affecting the amount of spending money some people who play sl have for use in SL. The entire thing is linked to the real world economy as there is no built in job system or method of getting lindens other then to use the US dollar. Even if you dont use USD to buy lindens the lindens you have in fact probably have been purchased using the USD the only lindens put into the economy are those somehow paid for using real world money i might exclude stipends but they also account for a very small amount of lindens inworld

Andy, what you say would make sense IF the vast majority of assets were in-world, which we know most of them are not. What it sounds like is the money has gone to subsidize some hare-brained scheme like fleshofthestars.com and everyone who has money in it after the point of the oldest/largest/most demanding investors is going to be SOL when the sites don't live up to their "potential." read: ponzi

People's account balances represent money I owe them, nothing more. The accusations of ponzi and fraud don't even apply. This would be true even if I had taken all the money deposited and burned it in my backyard, which I have not. I did not take deposits under a false pretense. I did not promise to do anything specific with the money, or to keep anyone informed of what I was doing. I did not promise any specific time frame within which the loans would be repaid. I have no obligation to release information on my off-world ventures, period. I have no obligation to release information on my in-world ventures, period. I have no obligation to meet any withdrawal request under any specific time frame, period. When I do any of these things, it's as a convenience to those who choose to do business with me and this convenience needs to be balanced against a variety of things, such as my long term ability to honor this debt and my need for privacy. I regard privacy as important, as such I am unlikely to release information from my off-world ventures. I regard the long term as important, as such I will not be liquidating assets to ensure that a few can withdraw "RIGHT NOW". You don't have to trust or do business with me. I will honor my obligations, but I cannot do miracles. Either be patient or cash out (sell your balance to a third party, buy bonds and the sell them on the WSE or keep trying the ATM until you get lucky)

I am not so sure...

But lets say you are right, its more tied to global currencies.

Then the SL economy would be tied to the Global economy - thus still affecting how much economic growth. The virtual world growth still would not be independant of it.

The Linden$ is only worth what people are willing to pay for it in terms of other currencies.


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On a side note - Wall Mart being one of the worlds largest employeers would probably effect the global economy to a small degree if it laid off 40% of its workforce.

Wallmart Sales for example are responsible for more than 10% of the US trade deficit with China.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/secrets/stats.html

Yes, which is what I am doing now and have always done.

It is, but based on what i said about wallmart, for that to happen the usd would have to fall dramatically, something that would rise the european purchasing power dramaticaly and since only 30% of sl'ers are american actualy that would strentghen the sl economy since the europeans would be getting cheaper L$. And thats excluding the fact that russia and asia are still relatively small in sl, they will rise over time, something that will further strengthen the sl economy. I believe, from this recent casino ban, or as we may call it "virtual great depression", a golden age will develop.