Are RL trademarks used in-world intended to be ironic?

Lexxi reached in, dug around, and took the words right out of my mouth.

Thanks. Ya, it's about all I could do to the camera other than offer poses and animations (AOs)--I am working on this however.

I just don't like how people say, 'oh, it doesn't wash my virtual dishes for me...ah man...then it's just a prop washing machine that has a spinning interior texture, a full cycle, and occasionally breaks down and calls the plumber via script? Ah man...it's just a prop.'

lol.

You can't please these people. They want my camera to do all the work for them. lol.

That sounds neat. Calls a plumber via script?

well there you go.
i dont mind buying "pirated" product and you dont mind scabbing.
different ethics for different people.

I'm sorry Nina, but this statement is just naive.

Come to think of it almost everything I own in SL is a prop.

My Skybox, my clothes, My avatar are just props.

The only "actual" thing that happens in SL is me communicating with other players.

--------------------------------

I guess though they would like a camera that takes pictures that seems reasonable I suppose but LL hasnt added that ability.

I asked about this a long time ago, since if you COULD do it it would be cool for creating a simulated Mirror effect.

qualify that.
how is it naive?
why should i care some guy uses a "goodyear" logo on some prim tyres for his sl car?

So, how many Nikes can dance on the head of aq pin? And if a Michael Bigwig Nikon camera takes a picture of them, will it come out?

So, MB "ripped off" Nikon, in the process giving them possibly valuable free advertising at no real cost to Nikon. If Nikon chooses to do anything about it, that is up to them. In the meantime, I doubt anyone in SL truly supposes MB's SL Nikons are "real" Nikons, and Nikon is not selling "Nikon" cameras in SL, so no-one is defrauded except the demonstrably delusional.

The remaining ethical question: Is anyone going to tattle on MB to Nikon or LL? It is one thing to be morally superior to MB; it is another to do that while being a fink. Now, step up folks. Who is going to take their priggishness to its ultimate, ludicroous conclusion?

/me Dusts off copy of Midsummer Night's Dream and looks for the passage where Puck says "What fools these mortals be."

There's actually a bigger ethical issue: LL could either delete the one instance of the camera that's AR'ed, or they could delete all copies from everyone's inventory since they're all infringing. If he didn't know it was illegal and what the possible outcome of it would be, he does now.

I'd hope noone ARs the item, not for his sake because what he did is wrong, but for all the people who bought an item that infringes on a trademark and who could find that item gone tomorrow while he gets to keep their money.

Brenda, are you messing with me again?

Is this another thread designed to hurt my head?

Is this actually being debated?

It says, quite clearly, "Don't use trademarks."

Screw whether it's right or wrong (it's wrong, by the way... prople worked hard to make the brand recognizable and someone using it to sell their own stuff is wrong), it's against the rules. That's it.

It's not ok. It's not fair. It's not defendable.

You sure it's not you and bilbo messing with me? Honestly?

Me? Mickey! Me?

huh? who are you? Chas?

Ok Ok, relax geeeeez.

I went back and re-read your post. At first reading it appeared you were not speaking of your PERSONAL feelings about the issue. My bad and I apologize.

I agree with you actually - I don't really care if someone stamps a licensed logo on a SL product. Where we may differ is I just won't purchase it. Unless of course it's placed there by the one who owns the license.

Just one opinion among many.

Gradually I've come to realize that this is where my Yamaha / WhisperBox comparison breaks down. The Yamaha "electronics" is really "just a prop:" a textured prim, maybe a particle effect, maybe some texture animation, maybe a pose--but its whole purpose is to look like something from RL. In contrast, the WhisperBox is absolutely *of* SL: it demonstrates the medium's potential in a way that really only makes sense in-world. (Yeah, something similar could be made in RL--in fact, the resulting sound reminds me of Rosenboom's "I am sitting in a room"--but RL is really not where it belongs.)

I now see that it would be more difficult to establish an in-world brand for something that exists to better mimic RL, compared to something that is "native" to the SL medium.

(If I'm honest with myself, I'm probably about as confused by the demand for RL mimicry as I am by the appeal of RL brands used in the process. But I think I'm probably just weird that way; the demand certainly exists.)

Mercedes sells cars in SL, Pontiac sells cars in SL, that suit guy has a shop in SL, Toyota, Mazda, and others have shops in SL, and I'm stupid (or delusional) for wondering if a product labeled "Nikon" might have some connection to the real Nikon corporation?

Did you completely miss the arrival of the corporations while you had your head stuck up your own assumptions?

I don't know. Maybe because I've been here a little while and seen lots of instances of folks recreating real-world products, but I went to his store last night. It's a little store with a camera and tripod, some lighting, and some other things. I didn't see anything that screamed out to me that this was the actual Nikon selling stuff in SL. It seemed pretty obvious to me that it was "some guy" recreating the camera.

--Hugsy

It is, isn't it, Brenda?
You and bilbo cooked this up and got all your friends and their alts to post this thread, just to mess with my head and make me think I'm in BizarroWorld.
I KNEW IT!

I think this is hilarious. WAY overblown.

'Someone worked hard to make the brand recognizable...'?? That person is long since dead, and their family is reaping the benefits and profit without even being involved. It's wrong and unethical and not fair and not defendable and....

Sheesh. Crucify me why don't you. Some of you are being WAY to dramatic about this.

I mean seriously. It's almost comical how hardcore you defend Nikon, for one, stupid little item in Second Life.

And it's not just about principle...I honestly think some of you that shout 'wolf' don't believe it for a minute. It's not about 'principle' it's about you being right, and knowing you're right...so posting here is an easy way to score a point.

Not a single person in the grid has had a problem with it...yet, ironically, the place people come to 'be heard' has several that want to crucify me over it.

I say, relax...have a spot of tea, read a book, and unplug. I'm not hurting anyone by doing this...and it's on such a itsy-bitsy scale, it shouldn't even have come this far.

lol. Cute way to describe my studio...other people would (and have) described my studio a bit differently...thanks for the sterile, bland, downplay of an otherwise unique location--remind me not to introduce you to my publisher.

A brand isn't just a name, it's an association between a customer and a product, and that association is worth a LOT of money to companies. It's what the customer thinks about when they hear the name or think of a product category that that brand-name falls within.

When you think of a portable cassette player most people think; (Sony) Walkman.
When you think of an MP3 player, most people think; (Apple) iPod.
When you want cola, most people think; Coca Cola.

That's called advertising, and companies invest a lot of money into building and maintaining the relationship between their company or product name and the image it creates in their customer's minds.

If you steal and slap a brand-name on a product then you steal and slap an association with the customer onto your product. Nikon typically make good cameras, therefore stealing the Nikon name implies to users that the SL camera might also be good, and they may be willing to trust it over a no-name camera they've never heard of before.
Whether intentional or not, stealing trademarked brand-names is stealing a lot more than just a jumble of letters or a pretty logo, it's the equivalent of stealing a machine that prints money.

The irony of this statement coming from you is incredible. The only person on these forums who, when people disagree with him, transforms the thread into another chance to play the persecuted victim. People *can't* disagree with you, they *must* be out to get you! zomgwtfbbq!!

You've had contact with every person in the grid? *eyeroll*

Put up or shut up - if you say that they will sell just as well without the Nikon name, then drop the name. Although in these crappy performance times, it is a wonder anything sells.

1. You're first point...whatever. Moving right along...

2. Your second point: I didn't say I had contact with every person on the grid. Strange misinterpretation. I said, everyone I've personally come into contact with. Huge difference.

3. You're just rude and mean. Why should I care what a few nasty, hypocritical people think.

3.5. Lastly...have you had a look around at the cameras offered in SL? Have you compared them? No? Then how about you relax...because I've seen them all. Meaning, my camera would sell just fine no matter what I put on as a brand-name. Thanks for the kind words though...thank god I have family in town, this forums negativity is hard to deal with sometimes.

Very true. Very true.

Take into consideration the 'free marketing' coming from this. Nikon is benefiting. A lot of companies pay people like me to create these things for them...I've done it for free....not thousands of USD. Free. And if you want to get picky, we all know my camera is high quality coming from a business point of view.

I totally agree with what you've said, I'm just illustrating one side of a coin.

Yes, I've been to his store also. I heard, have no proof, but heard that one of the hair places has some license to sell a certain type of hair. I thought there might be a license or no license, but I didn't know. I was strongly objecting to the posts that seem to imply that I'm a complete moron for even thinking something that is sold in SL could have any connection to RL other than whatever rationalization being used by the SL creator using the RL brand.

And no, not everyone is saying that, only two were saying that.

And yes, that might be the difference, when I came in IBM and the like were already here. Mercedes was already selling cars. I then saw his store and was confused as to just one camera, but it had Nikon on it. And as I mentioned in other posts, I later saw Nike shoes in a freebie box and one thing lead to another and I realized that the brand was more than likely being used illegally. Or was a licensed use. But I didn't know one way or another. For all I know, Nikon decided to test the waters with a small shop with a SL creator that seemed to know what he was doing, instead of plunging in with 4 islands built by their own staff who have never been in SL, or built by people who have been in SL but do not specifically know anything about Nikon.

If I was looking at SL from the outside, and I was a real world corporation, I would try to locate someone inside that seemed to know what they were doing and try to ease myself in. Have the product there and build up word of mouth. Advertising is otherwise a joke in SL. Adfarms are hated, and the events page is filled with classifieds. Campers seem to be despised (or at least those that seem to be "gaming the system" to boost traffic).

I didn't know Mercedes was in world until I was looking at the cars in world and stumbled across the island. I knew that Playboy was coming, but then the date passed and I didn't hear about it again. Until I stumbled across it. Nissan has a nice in world product, island with a test track, but I hazard to guess that it is still disliked because it is an obvious corporate presence. So again, find someone in world that seems to know what they are doing and build up to the island. Show a commitment to SL before dumping 4 islands into the grid and then running away.

Welcome to my World, Mickey. As far as I know, I'm not Brenda's nor bilbo's alt, though I like to fancy myself a friend. But let me explain why I started the thread, and what reason it might still have to exist.

In some other thread about advertising, the "Nikon controversy" popped up. I really did start wondering why the hell anybody would want an RL brand on something in SL. And I wanted to generalize the question--hence, it started with "Yamaha" not "Nikon." And, yeah, I picked the WhisperBox--something Yamaha could only dream of doing--as a challenge to GlowBox.

As long as Michael is stuck in the middle of this anyway, I'll just say it: GBD is grown-up now; it's too sophisticated to be relying on products that merely bring RL into SL (brands or otherwise). The challenge is to use the brainpower at GlowBox to expand SL, to introduce new possibilities, to do stuff Nikon could only dream of doing.