Are RL trademarks used in-world intended to be ironic?

Another current thread veered off into a discussion of the "right and wrong" of using RL trademarks in-world without the trademark owner's permission. And that got me wondering why the hell anybody would *want* a RL-trademarked item in-world. For example, I've recently seen some "electronics" textured with well-known brands like Roland, Marshall, Denon, Yamaha, etc. Would anybody be silly enough to want a prim stamped with a stolen trademark more than one bearing a real brand of, say, Robbie Dingo?

Now, I've never met Robbie, but I'd sure rather own something recognizably from the genius behind WhisperBox, rather than some assembly of prims bearing the name of some old-media RL company who can't spell SL.

So... have I just been missing the joke? Are people just being ironic with these RL brands?

Not sure exactly what you mean by 'are people just being ironic...'

It's clearly wrong in the written-law aspect. The questions is, some people believe more strongly than others...and there really is no arguing that. We all learned growing up that 'stealing a penny is just as bad as stealing $100', which to me...is bullocks.

I think there are levels of encroachment. I think there are unspoken principles that can be acceptable. I don't brand my camera Nikon because my product stinks and I need the brand support...I brand it Nikon because I like Nikon, find it familiar, and feel the community is with me on this.

There are degrees here, yes. And I suppose each could be argued. But some people...only want to get 'technical' and can't see a past it to save their lives.

I don't think what I'm doing is hurting anyone--not even the company I'm advertising. This is just how I feel.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are definitely things I feel are undeniably 'wrong.' If someone copybots another persons model and brand and sells it...that's on an entirely different level. Again, my opinion. Others however still can't see these areas of gray, they only see the apple, not the tree.

I Totally Agree Qie.

Mr Dingo has more than proved he has a profound understanding of the possibilities of SL.

If Yamaha start selling stuff in-world.......then they start from Scratch....just like any Newb.

They will have to persuade me, that they have truly engaged with SL.
Given most Corporations half-assed attempts in SL, my natural scepticism may even be a notch or 2 higher, than with Mr/Mrs Newb's first fumblings.

You can't spell SL without "Marshall".

I think it is a partly unintentional effect of photosourcing textures; it would be really hard to design the Roland logo on your own. That said, I think merchants who do this don't mind the trademark appearing on their work as it conveys a quality that the v-good couldn't have.

Sorry, probably I was being obscure. I wasn't asking what's right or wrong. I'm trying to understand *why* there are RL trademarks in-world that have nothing to do with the origin of the products on which they appear. Well, "why" in the sense of "why would anybody want them?": It could be that people somehow imagine that there's some cachet bestowed on a prim if it bears a particular RL brand, which is kinda what I thought before, but it's such a silly idea that I got to thinking maybe I'd just missed the point, and that people used such brands just to kinda poke fun at them, which is what I meant by "ironic."

It's about quality association in my opinion. The best way I can explain it is that people will slap a RL quality brand name on a product they make in SL because the customer sees the name and most likely already associates it with a quality product from RL. Therefore it's easy for the consumer to assume that the SL product using the (most likely) trademark infringed upon name is of the same quality as it's RL name brand reputation. I personally don't condone the use, misuse, or abuse of trademarked names, but have been guilty of purchasing such items before becoming a more wise consumer.

Too bad trademark law and your sentiments don't agree with each other.

So, if I understand your feelings, it is okay for you to copy Nikon's work, but it would be bad if I copied your copy? Okay, got it.

living with a guitarist, i assure you that a 'robbie' would never be as cool as a 'marshall'.

To me its a lot simpler

Nearly every Day One noob off the boat has heard of a Ford Mustang, or a Nikon Camera. No SL socialization is required before they would potentially show interest in such a product.

A Dominus Shadow on the other hand, while containing some of the flavor of a classic Mustang .. No one will of heard off until they actually start shopping for SL cars or asking around.

For the most part, people don't know one SL designer from another, especially the more casual consumers. They go with a name they recognize from RL. I'm assuming that's the way that the people who are using RL logos are thinking, at least. If the RL logo conveys a level of quality, then potential customers might go with the virtual product based on that image.

That's where it's stealing, as well. The sellers who do this aren't stealing actual product or technology, of course, they are stealing identity and reputation. Presumably, the company who's logo is being stolen has put a great deal of effort into developing a reputation for an excellent product and has poured money into branding and marketing to sell that image. If someone leeches off that effort, it's stealing.

If you've been reading what I've wrote...all of it...you'd see that's exactly what I said. And if you guys want to get technical, I'm not copying Nikon's work at all...my model is from my imagination...even the textures are mostly custom. I'm merely using the brand.

If the mark is part of the name (or description) of the item it's simply an attempt to capitalize on that brand's wide recognition.

If I wanted to buy a soda vending machine for some odd reason, I'd probably prefer one that had a RL brand on it over one with a weird looking "SL-cola" texture, in which case the seller benefits by infringing on someone's trademark.

On the other hand, you can simply AR the item. LL isn't protected by the DMCA when it comes to trademark infringement, so whenever they learn of infringement that item has to be taken down, whether the mark owner reported it or you did.

Yes. Yes it is. That's why I'm changing the name. I still believe using a multi-billion dollar companies logo on one of my own custom cameras is about as 'wrong' as stealing a golf ball from Tiger...but whatever.

I enjoy all of the input I've received. I think some of you need to look more closely as to whether you really think what I'm doing is 'wrong', or you're jumping on the band-wagon because it's easy to do. There are gray areas my fellow citizens...life isn't black and white....neither is content creation.

QFT. I fully agree.

I'd think personal use vs selling is the main thing to determine whether you're in the "gray area" or not.

If you simply made a camera for yourself with a Nikon label on it and only kept it to yourself, it would still be 'wrong', but very few (or less) people might care.

You're wrong. 'Simply' eh? Here's the gray area people refuse to see.

I don't try to capitalize on anything I do. I run on my own steam whether you guys want to believe it or not. My products speak for themselves. I use the name Nikon because it's familiar, and it pleases the customer...not to make a profit.

I'm a very generous person. I always donate. I'm constantly doing probono work. I love collaborating.

So you saying 'simply an attempt to capitalize' is a gross exaggeration, and certainly doesn't fit my particular case...that's for sure. I don't care for profit...I just want to make some cool things, continually learn, and create items people enjoy.

*Are people just being ironic with these RL brands?*


I think the more appropriate phrasing in answering this question when it relates to at least the musical instrument scene is..........People are being iconic with the RL brands.

Why would I buy a virtual Takamine EAN-10c? Cause I own two in RL.

Why would I buy a honey blond Fender strat? See above......

There is a certain degree of emotional attachment that is associated with buying an instrument as it becomes an extension of the player. So as long as people continue to build classic names, there will be buyers. And I would also contend, that the folks who are manufacturing classic collectibles such as Eric Clapton's 'Blackie' are paying more of a homage to the person behind the instrument and the tool of his/her trade.

Thats my two L --- if you can hum it, you can strum it

So...in this respect, you're saying that because I make Lindens from my sales...more people are likely to 'flame' me for it?

Why is that I wonder...are their own products not doing well? They have to harshly criticize little ol' Glowbox for one measly product...don't you guys think that's a little overboard?

Definitely agree here. I personally love Nikon. If anything, I chose to use the brand simply because of my history with [them]. It's much more of a homage, and much less a theft.

It's nice to see at least one person can stand outside the box and not purposefully be difficult (no offense to anyone in particular).

Yes I make money from this item...but I'm certainly not buying any condos in the Riviera.

I don't disagree. It's not like you're running a million dollar pirated cd cartel. Nikon is unlikely to send a squad of hired goons over to your home. It is like stealing a golf ball from Tiger. I just wouldn't steal a golf ball from Tiger.

I'm not trying to beat you up here or anything. I don't really care what you do with your products. It's your call. I think we just are looking at this from two different perspectives.

Its not really a gray area though. Its an "unlit" area, because Nikon doesn't know about it.

You are right in that your customers probably prefer the RL name.

"Capitalize" doesn't have to mean you do it for the money.

It could also mean you take advantage of the name to make your customers more happy.

People want real world items in SL so they can have them there too. I don't find that silly at all. Especially when it comes to vehicles. I may want to fly around in a Cessna 182 and I want it to look like a Cessna 182 as much as possible. I don't want to fly around in someones just-enough-bastardized version.



I don't think it's a joke or ironic at all. Just people being a fan of a particular brand and wanting to share that in SL.

--Hugsy

My brother is a Nikon freak and has been for years. In fact, he is about freakish about his cameras as I am with guitars. And just like my process of picking out a guitar -- he is the same way with cameras -- -pick it up, touch it, feel it, and play with it. There will always be an emotional attachment to a tool that you create with. Shoot, I even have a ritual and a favorite pen that I use for writing LoL.

Thank you. There's two on my side. This is what I believe Hugsy. Ok ok...2-8...not a great score, but it's looking brighter.

lol.

In this case I have to say, that Mike's argument that it's ok because Nikon is a big company so it won't hurt, is not a good one, but also that he is getting hammered a bit just because he is who he is.