Hmmmm. Unless the renter had done something horrendously wrong (and yes, I suppose this is in the eye of the beholder), I would have given him/her/them at least a day's notice to pick up their stuff and get themselves organized elsewhere.
That said, it's your land...so you can do as you wish...
(oh, and ibtl)
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question regarding rentals and threats |
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Maureen Boccaccio
TWJKFA
Join date: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 14,484
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11-03-2008 03:48
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Blot Brickworks
The end of days
Join date: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
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11-03-2008 04:24
Has anybody heard the saying...............Never wash your dirty linen in public!!!
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Chris Norse
Loud Arrogant Redneck
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 5,735
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11-03-2008 05:32
I used to own a club. I had a DJ, one who started out good but soon descended into madness. After several weeks of increasingly strange behavior from him, he decided to show up to DJ in a dog costume with a large erect "part" He brought his normal party of hangers on when he came, including his partner.
After he repeatedly refused to put away his part, I fired him, then ejected and banned him once he started making a scene in open chat. His partner was ejected and banned after repeated requests for her to leave. She was just "saying her good byes" and trying to get others to leave as well. So I booted her. So Rha, you did what you thought was best. It is your land, they have no claim to make an AR against you. Partners are seldom innocent in these matters. Stick to your guns and don't let them get you down. “An apology? Bah! Disgusting! Cowardly! Beneath the dignity of any gentleman, however wrong he might be.” Baroness Orczy _____________________
I'm going to pick a fight
William Wallace, Braveheart “Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind” Douglas MacArthur FULL |
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Void Singer
Int vSelf = Sing(void);
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,973
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11-03-2008 05:49
This is the reason I see escape clauses in so many rental agreements
"If a renter causes any serious negative impact for either the owner or other tenents that rent from the owner, or the sim in general, that renter may be evicted without previous notice, with compensation for the remaining paid time of that rental. continually missing payments IS considered a serious issue" EDITED TO ADD: "minor disputes will be attempted to be resolved through warnings and/or personal contact / arbitration" _____________________
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Front Dawes
Registered User
Join date: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 76
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11-03-2008 08:52
free time means exactly that, they did not pay for it, it was free Hence the confusion, because you also spoke of a refund. How can you refund anything if they have not paid and it was free?? Anyway, I think it is bad that you did not provide sufficient notice, and also for returning their stuff. You should have allowed them to remove their stuff as returning a lot of prims results in them being coalesced, and it takes quite some work to unravel coalesced objects. What you did was not illegal, and no Abuse Report should be raised, but it was simply not good manners, even if the rental was free, which I am still confused about. Front |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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11-03-2008 09:08
Hence the confusion, because you also spoke of a refund. How can you refund anything if they have not paid and it was free?? Anyway, I think it is bad that you did not provide sufficient notice, and also for returning their stuff. You should have allowed them to remove their stuff as returning a lot of prims results in them being coalesced, and it takes quite some work to unravel coalesced objects. What you did was not illegal, and no Abuse Report should be raised, but it was simply not good manners, even if the rental was free, which I am still confused about. Front I'm confused about the refund part as well. Otherwise, you were within your rights as the owner of the space. Maybe a little notice would have been nice, but otherwise they have no grounds for an AR. |
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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11-03-2008 10:25
Hence the confusion, because you also spoke of a refund. How can you refund anything if they have not paid and it was free?? Anyway, I think it is bad that you did not provide sufficient notice, and also for returning their stuff. You should have allowed them to remove their stuff as returning a lot of prims results in them being coalesced, and it takes quite some work to unravel coalesced objects. What you did was not illegal, and no Abuse Report should be raised, but it was simply not good manners, even if the rental was free, which I am still confused about. Front 15 prims is not a lot of prims (I did mention SMALL rentals) I spoke of a refund because they did pay for some of the time and some of the time was free, I guess depending on how folks look at it, some would say the remaining time was the paid time, or the remaining time was the free time... _____________________
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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11-03-2008 11:26
Rha you need to separate your business head from your personal head. Free time was part of the deal I assume? Rent for so long, get so long free? If that's the case then you should have honoured it from a business point of view.
If the person was doing something to damage your business that's a different issue, but I see no mention of that, it seems to be a personal dispute that crossed into your business area. Refund them whatever they paid and move along. |
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Crystal Falcon
Registered Silly User
Join date: 9 Aug 2006
Posts: 631
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11-03-2008 11:56
I spoke of a refund because they did pay for some of the time and some of the time was free, I guess depending on how folks look at it, some would say the remaining time was the paid time, or the remaining time was the free time...  They prepay for a period of time, and when the rental box is up they pay for another period of time? If you extended extra free time as a gift to them, that is nothing more than a gift you gave them, how would that change the business agreement?After all, it's not yours to do with as you will, as soon as you accepted money for it, did it not became their space until the time was up? Haven't they paid for something of value (whether you feel it's valuable or not)? (They may have even invested in promoting it, putting it in their picks or paying for classifieds despite your belief LMs wouldn't need to be updated.) Some rental agreements I've seen in SL offer to refund the entire back month if they can't notify ahead of time of an "eviction" and need to break their word. Wouldn't this be the easiest thing to do since it's only pennies? If you don't want to do that, then maybe pro-rate the amount they paid over the total time (paid plus free) and refund the balance remaining that way? _____________________
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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11-03-2008 14:28
Ignoring the drama and boiling it down, what was the agreement? They prepay for a period of time, and when the rental box is up they pay for another period of time? If you extended extra free time as a gift to them, that is nothing more than a gift you gave them, how would that change the business agreement?After all, it's not yours to do with as you will, as soon as you accepted money for it, did it not became their space until the time was up? Haven't they paid for something of value (whether you feel it's valuable or not)? (They may have even invested in promoting it, putting it in their picks or paying for classifieds despite your belief LMs wouldn't need to be updated.) Some rental agreements I've seen in SL offer to refund the entire back month if they can't notify ahead of time of an "eviction" and need to break their word. Wouldn't this be the easiest thing to do since it's only pennies? If you don't want to do that, then maybe pro-rate the amount they paid over the total time (paid plus free) and refund the balance remaining that way? by free I mean... their time was about to expire and I added time to it, to my knowledge no other time was added by the renter (and nothing in my transaction logs either, then again SL is glitchy) as I said I offered them the money back and they never replied about that, I am not sure what they were going on about... all is done now, can't turn back, but I have learned a lesson if I EVER put out rentals again... and that is to let them expire and just let folks know it will be discontinued (and have a clause in there regarding reasons one might get evicted) thank you all again for the input, it has helped me and I hope it has helped anyone looking in and thinking about renting out space or land etc _____________________
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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11-03-2008 15:20
Edited to add I debated with myself as to if I wanted to post this thread and decided yes, because who knows how many others are facing a similar situation, and are not sure what to do. Ok, I will try to make this a short as possible story. I would just ask the question but it would not make sense without the reason behind it LOL. anywho... I decided to make some changes around my store, and due to some personal reasons I decided I no longer wanted one of the renters there, so I returned their stuff and removed the rental box (they were on free time, only 2 weeks remaining at 15L per week) and I told them if they want a refund I would refund as I don't want to be thought of as stealing from them (even though it was free time... I was told they added some time, but I am not aware of that, besides they had well over 2 free months from me, anywho... ) I do not mind giving out free time... as a matter of fact I like doing it, it helps folks out.... now.. this person has threatened (in a thinly veiled way) to contact my other renters and see how they feel about my "total disregard for the rental agreement" The only agreement was they pay they stay, in this case it was FREE space and I said I would refund... now the question... (they also made mention of reporting me for "abuse" abuse of what? What did I do wrong? I own the land, I decided to avoid drama I would just remove this person, and I could have done so without a word, but I did tell them I removed them and why (and they can speak to another for more info, as I said... Drama, I no want it) so... do they have any reason to abuse report me? And did I do anything wrong in removing them? Should I have sucked it up and let them stay till it ran out and told them I was not allowing them to renew? (I have a feeling either way, this situation would still be here) Sure I have had run in's with folks, after nearly 3 years one would expect to however I have never been threatened with an abuse report nor have I been threatened with someone saying they are going to see what my renters think about my "practices" Input appreciated, please do not try to second guess who it was, as more than 1 person was removed, there were actually a total of 6 people removed from the land, one cuz her time ran out, and the others due to the change and/or the avoidance of drama. It is not like we are talking 1000's of lindens or a high traffic place.... Thanks for any input. I know some ppl will think I did wrong, if you are one of those people, please just explain why you think it was wrong and what you would have done differently. I do not want this to be an open invite for folks to start personally attacking me This is also a great way for folks to discuss different business practices when it comes to renting. (this is the first time I have ever evicted someone due to personal reasons, I just do not need more drama in my life, SL or otherwise) Thanks when my tenants stop paying, i always contact them and ask them if they are staying or going (unless their stuff is gone, then it's obvious), and we work out repay or return. it's all very professional and cordial. no one should ever be evicted in RL or SL because of personal issues. but Rha, you will always have personal issues with someone or lots of someones.... it's just a matter of when each person will get their turn with you. you're a drama queen with a keen knack of forgetting what others or even you yourself said - errr...... good luck *coff* avoiding the drama. _____________________
it was fun while it lasted.
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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11-03-2008 16:29
when my tenants stop paying, i always contact them and ask them if they are staying or going (unless their stuff is gone, then it's obvious), and we work out repay or return. it's all very professional and cordial. no one should ever be evicted in RL or SL because of personal issues. but Rha, you will always have personal issues with someone or lots of someones.... it's just a matter of when each person will get their turn with you. you're a drama queen with a keen knack of forgetting what others or even you yourself said - errr...... good luck *coff* avoiding the drama. thanks for not taking a personal pot shot at me 3, appreciate it (and you talk of being professional... ok) anywho to those who took the time to reply seriously and not use it as a chance to take some personal shots at me, thank you yes I will check anytime I see a reply, because it just might be a comment that is worth reading... sadly.. not all are for those who don't like me, don't care what I have to say etc, why not just... not read it blahhhh so what, I made a mistake, I am human, but... some people tend to forget that we are all human _____________________
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life... |
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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11-03-2008 16:31
thanks for not taking a personal pot shot at me 3, appreciate it (and you talk of being professional... ok) anywho to those who took the time to reply seriously and not use it as a chance to take some personal shots at me, thank you yes I will check anytime I see a reply, because it just might be a comment that is worth reading... sadly.. not all are for those who don't like me, don't care what I have to say etc, why not just... not read it blahhhh so what, I made a mistake, I am human, but... some people tend to forget that we are all human it's not personal, and it's not a shot. it's just the truth. straight up. _____________________
it was fun while it lasted.
http://2lf.informe.com/ |
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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11-03-2008 16:48
Rha you need to separate your business head from your personal head. Free time was part of the deal I assume? Rent for so long, get so long free? If that's the case then you should have honoured it from a business point of view. If the person was doing something to damage your business that's a different issue, but I see no mention of that, it seems to be a personal dispute that crossed into your business area. Refund them whatever they paid and move along. Good advice, this. _____________________
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Oryx Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 8 Nov 2006
Posts: 7,663
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11-03-2008 17:09
A week's notice would have been more professional.
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Void Singer
Int vSelf = Sing(void);
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,973
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11-03-2008 21:41
I'll credit that sometimes personal issues can have a major impact, both in the happiness of neighbors as well as the headaches and stress dealing with them. whether or not this is the case here, I wouldn't know.
best advice seems to escape-clause/disclaimer, and attempting to give advance notice. Live and learn, try to work it out better in the future. best of luck. PS even in the real world people get evicted over personal issues, I should know, btdt. I'm not saying it's right, but at least in SL tour stuff isn't on the curb to be picked through or heading to the dump neh? _____________________
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Zazas Oz
Rufeena Fashion Designer
Join date: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 517
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11-03-2008 22:25
Rha, People used to call me the JC Penny's of sl cause I had stores everywhere so I have alot of experience in renting and what you did was fine. I have had my venders returned with no explination at all alot of times and when I contact the owner of the land maybe half the time I get a reason and if lucky a refund of the rent I still had on the box.
Regarding Mall or store rentals I would say at least 30% are poor excuses for running a professional rental. But the others 70% give the refund but not all give notice ... if they do its as you are getting the refund and are asked do you want to get the vendors or have me delete them. If the person isnt on they send them back with an IM explaining why or a note. When you touch for info on the rento it says no refunds and alot of times in the notecard you get when you touch the rento the owner will also say no refunds no exceptions. And then dont give notice either lol. Sometimes they just disapeer to never be seen again and the land is bare. You gave us all a great deal and I appreciate the spot I had. You dont want to rent out spaces anymore then that is your right and you did not need to give any notice or even a refund if the box said there was no refunds. But I know you and being the kind person you are wouldn't think of not giveing them what was due to them. Don't let it get to you I appreciate the time you gave me there and am feel you handled my leaveing just fine. And also I believe you didnt come here to start drama because I know you dont like it anymore than I do you were just explaining so people understood what happened as to give a full answer to you. After all how can someone help if they dont know what all went on?? Oh and just to make it clear Rha didnt ask me to to post on this tread cause I was also a renter there. I just happened to come read the forums and saw it. Hugssss Hun!! |
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Kidd Krasner
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,938
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11-04-2008 08:18
it's not personal, and it's not a shot. it's just the truth. straight up. Just because something is true doesn't mean it can't also be personal or a shot. |
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Rhaorth Antonelli
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 7,425
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11-04-2008 09:20
Oh and just to make it clear Rha didnt ask me to to post on this tread cause I was also a renter there. I just happened to come read the forums and saw it. Hugssss Hun!! wow yeah I did not expect you to post, thanks hon yes I admit I could have handled it better, but I didn't, the thread was not to see if I handled it poorly, but to see how others handled it, and if they would have done things differently now on the subject of the rentals... I just got notice someone paid for time on a rental box...not a name I recognize edited... it is not the box I thought, so trying to find the one that just got time on it found it it was one fo the renters left over that I sent the same notecard to that I sent them all to, and I saw that it was accepted.... soooo I just refunded and removed, as they were notified not to increase their time and that I would be removing all rentals so it seems no matter what one does, it is never the right thing _____________________
Morpheus Linden: But then I change avs pretty often too, so often, I look nothing like my avatar. They are taking away the forums... it could be worse, they could be taking away the forums AND Second Life... |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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11-04-2008 11:21
it's not personal, and it's not a shot. it's just the truth. straight up. _____________________
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Dannoth Dagger
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Join date: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 141
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11-04-2008 11:41
You own the land.
You make the rules. You shouldn't accept threats from some idiot. Tell them that you don't want them there, and that they should not make any threats to you whatsoever or you will take further action (i.e. AR). _____________________
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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11-04-2008 15:42
Just because something is true doesn't mean it can't also be personal or a shot. it also doesn't mean it IS a shot. it just is. and that's all it is. _____________________
it was fun while it lasted.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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11-04-2008 15:44
and totally unnecessary. depends on how you roll. _____________________
it was fun while it lasted.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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11-04-2008 15:47
depends on how you roll. _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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11-04-2008 16:13
depends on how you roll.
edit: when one airs their dirty laundry disguised as something else, knowing full well it will not only be seen but is a provacation for a response from intended viewer, it's naive to not expect to be called out on it. _____________________
it was fun while it lasted.
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