REZZ Boxes, advantages?

Script IPS is hard to adjust. And the number of scripts in this stat depends on how complex the scripts are. I've seen single scripts that can slow a sim to a crawl, and have seen sims with 200,000 IPS functioning perfectly.

Script Time, measured in micro-seconds(ms) is far mor valuable. Anything above 24ms is BAD. 20-22ms is average. Anything below 18ms is heavenly. Anything below 10ms is a myth ROFL

~Jessy

Of course, all my scripts are in the myths category

200,000 IPS means that there is less other stuff going on, so scripts as a whole get more than their minimum amount of time. With all 24 rezzers off last night, the IPS was still on the low side.

How do you measure a specific script's time? It may have been you who mentioned it to me recently - I remember what's said, but I'm good at forgetting who said things.

The script time of a specific script is only possible via Estate Tools on private sims, or by various scripted scanners for sale. Script-Foo offers this, I believe.

What I refer to, however, is the total Script Time in the SIM.

You can see this on the statistics bar (CTRL+SHIFT+1) and click on the Time catagory at the bottom of the list to expand it. Sadly, most don't know that the statistics bar expands for more detailed information. LL really needs to make a downloadable, printable copy of interface usage.

~Jessy

I've looked at 2 sims in which I have temp rezzers running. The one where I have ~2 dozen running has a Script Time of ~14, with a lowest point of 8.5 and a highest point of 16.0. The other sim, in which I have 5 rezzboxes running, is roughly the same. They both have 6k+ active scripts in them, and they are both class 5 sims.

Judging by your findings, my rezzboxes don't appear to be doing any lag-type harm in either sim, as they are both in the "heavenly" range.

Bit of confusion either from reading over two seperate posts, or I'm not clear due to thinking with a cold, heh.

The Total Time is the time that should be kept below 24ms. The Script Time is one that should be watched for suddent jumps. However, from what you posted, yes, I'd agree that the ones you have set are not causing any major adverse effects (all scripts cause some). Script Time and Physics Time are two of the more "liquid" measures in a sim on which Residents can effect.

Rezzers in and of themselves rarely cause issues. The scripts running them are fairly simple (at least in a resource usage outlook). One may be better than the other, simply in lue of how "elequant" the code was written, but the differences here would be minor, imo.

The lag, and sim-performance, hits will come from objects placed into the rezzer to be rezzed. Something which, as the rezzer seller, you will have no control over. I think this was understood before, but wanted to make sure.

~Jessy

Actually, I hadn't understood that it's the contents that's may cause problems. I'd thought that everyone meant the rezzers themselves. Thank you for clearing that up.

temp prims cause no additional lag than regular (non-temp) prims.

*REZZING* several hundred (or thousand) temp prims every 30-60 seconds causes some strain on a heavily loaded sim, but causes SIGNIFICANT load for the clients forced to render the new prims. THAT can be perceived as "lag", particularly on lower end machines.

As a note, temp prims will NOT delete if an avatar is seated on them. This is a great way to create a vehicle rental system. But the moment the avatar gets up, POOF the temp object will vanish.

Many temp Rezzers may actually have a scripted llDie function, which autodeletes the previous incarnation a second or so after the replacement has been rezzed, but basic LL garbage collection alone will not delete a temp object with an avatar on it. (nor unsit them).

You are quite right Winter. If an object creates lag, then it creates lag. It doesn't matter how it is rezzed. The only addition with temp rezzed objects is that the server must check the length of time that they have existed, and delete them when it's their time is up. I can't see that that is a lag issue, any more than walking in a sim is a lag issue.

Without doing a great deal in the way of testing, it seems to me from this thread that the only downside of temp rezzers is when a sim's prim pool is getting near to being used up. There is also a strong objection from a few people to the use of prims in the pool that haven't been allocated to the parcel, but that's not a technical (lag) issue.

*nods* Part of that testing I did, showed that some prims/objects do not like being rezzed right on top of the other. The rezzer rezzes the object exactly in the same place as the last, so until the prior is deleted, this "interpolation" (for lack of a better term) may create issues. Scripts in objects have the same issue. Building up and may conflict with each other until the first is derezzed.

A real problem exists if the sim-performance starts to degrade significantly. If the degragation starts to effect the sim timing, then the auto-delete or even the ||Die function (which still uses a timer) may not fire when it is supposed to. So instead of 1-2 objects in place at any one time, you can wind up with 3, or 5, or 465623. And the more temp-rezzed items that start to use the sims resources for that timer, the worse it becomes.

Now if you could script a rezzer to NOT rez when certain sim perfomance stats drop below a certain point, then I think you would have a great item. However, I'm no scriptor (I only dabble), so I'm not sure if this is even possible, of feasable. But this would let older rezzed objects clean up before returning to the rez cycle.

Manually rezzed temp-prims (the bullet example) already have this feature. It's called the human at the controls. If lag builds up too much, they can stop firing and let things clean up. Wether the human controls work is dependant on the human *grins*

~Jessy

Scripted objects are not suitable at all for temp rezzers that rerez every minute or so. Having a script in an object means that something is either changeable when in use, or is changing when in use, and such items are no good, because each new instance of the object starts in the original state, so scripted objects aren't used for the rez-a-minute type.

The types of objects that are not good in temp rezzers, when the next instance is rezzed in the same location as the current one, are objects with some degree of transparency in them (although flames get a good blaze going at that time). I don't know if that's the sort of thing that you mean, Jessy. If it is, I don't see it as a problem - it's only visual, and I can't see it affecting the sim. The display of opaque textures is perfect when there are 2 instances rezzed.

That reminded me of an SL glitch that caused my PrimMiser to display to create hundreds of copies of itself in the store. It didn't cause lag though. There are limits to the prims that a parcel can support - normal and temp - so huge numbers couldn't be reached.

I'm sure that temp rezzers can be used to affect sim performance, but that doesn't mean that they are bad, any more than orbiters and guns, etc. are intrinsically bad (they can be used for attack or defense).

Teleport to the Cathedral sim. Go in as far as you can. See the eggs? Good. Now touch them to bring up the menu. Click on one of the buttons to rez that particular Dragon on the holorezzer in the middle of the rotunda. Do it quite a few times (you can't do one immediately after the other; there's a delay between rezzes). Watch the sim stats. Watch what happens around you. Chances are, if you rez enough of them in a short time, you will get to experience a lag-disconnect crash to boot.

Happens day-in and day-out. We have to turn off the holorezzer during events and releases because the sim just can't handle the strain of rezzing plus lots of folks popping in and out.

Yes, temp rezzers by themselves are not evil. It is in what you do with them. That said, encouraging folks to "break the rules" with them, as it were, makes them about as evil as they can get, and why they are banned in quite a few places. Just like people who use orbiters and guns against other people, even for defense. You can still be ARed and banned over it.

110% agree. Which is what I've been saying *Grins*

However, orbiters and guns (to use your example) can be bought by those that do not know that using them in certain places can get them in trouble by violating the ToS. Do you think LL listens to the "I didn't know." excuse? Some make honest mistakes with these as well as with rezzers.

And yes, scripted objects ~shouldn't~ be placed in rezzers. However, re-rezzing that pretty 128-prim tree that drops physics leaves, to save on prim-count on your parcel, is exactly one of the "bad things" that can be done with them by people who don't know any better. It can get them a warning, or worse, from LL, depending on the Linden investigating, and the amount of the adverse effects.

As for the interpolation only being an effect with transparencies, no. This happens with fully opaque prims too. Mostly if they get cut and twisted in certain ways. Look at items in wireframe (CTRL+SHIFT+R) and this will give you a view of why. Each polygon SL works with is another load. Torus prims are a well known "resource hog" when it comes to prims. Which is why some of those hairs you mention lag so bad. Torus is the prime prim used in a lot of hair designs. Aside from the shape, the texture itself is something to concider. Certain textures (opaques, not alphas) wound up flickering and causing client-side lag in rendering. This part of rezzer problems doesn't effect the sim-performance, but is added to what anyone looking at them feels.

As a seller of a rezzer, no, you can't cotnrol what people put into them, or how they are used. However, you can tell them ahead of time what to watch for and how to understand if what they put in is causing issues (ie to look at the statistics bar). It's up to them to avoid those issues.

~Jessy

I tried to follow your instructions but parts of the place wouldn't rezz, and moving was sometimes difficult. I've been having such problems today, so I'll try again when SL is smoother.

There are no such rules to be broken.

Well, there are: The ToS explicitly forbids adversely affecting sim / service performance. And there are people who use temp-rezzing for just that purpose, to maximally annoy the rest of the sim from their 4x4m extortion plot. (Although I half suspect they're *anti*-adfarmers, trying to force LL into banning all adfarms. I think it might be working.)

To continually re-rez an object with a temp rezzer over and obove the set prim limit for the land is "breaking the rules". Technically.


While you are correct, that if there are 5000 prims free in the sim, no one will care if you use a few. However, this still does not make the use "legal".

TempRez ~was~ meant to be able to go beyond prim limits. Temporarily. It is when done in such a fashion to make the temp prims permanent that it is agaisnt the rules. No, I can't quote teh ToS lines. Soemthign to the effect of sharing resources evenly. ie, you get what you've paid for with yoru land tier.

Using more prims than is in your prim allotment is an ARable offense. This is what I meant by saying that misusing a rezzer due to not knowing, can still get a person into trouble. It doesn't need to impact sim-performance (though going that route is ARable as well). If someone notices, and reports, then LL is within their right to take action. Usually in a deletion of the rezzer, and a Warning issued.

Will they in all cases? No. Anyone that's been in LL long enough knows that "grey area" rulings liek this are up to the Linden involved. Each will have their own outlook on things. Using the rezzer to get around prim limits is tempting such disciplanary actions though.

~Jessy

I have to disagree - until such times as I see the rule

This doesn't surprise me, given that you, well, SELL the object in question. As a result, I doubt you would agree until LL banned you, and then you probably still wouldn't agree. *shrug*

Makes no nevermind to me. Temp rezzers that consistently keep a person's prim use above their allotment in our residential/commercial areas will result in sanctions. It's in OUR rules, and that's all I really care about, even though we're far from unique in that stance.

If the whole point in setting prim allotments on plot sizes is to, um, LIMIT how many prims people use, then "getting around" that limit using temporary-cum-permanent prim allotment via temp rezzers, and thus lagging the sim and taking away prim allotments from others breaks the SPIRIT of the limit, which is what prompts people to *make* such RULES in the first place.

I have made temp rezzers, too. I also have made weapons, orbiters, animation griefing scripts/objects, too. I NEVER sell them, and those I give them to are trustworthy enough to never use them abusingly against someone else. While I don't consider a temp rezzer nearly as odious as something like an orbiter, they still have far too much griefing potential, especially unintentionally.

I thought private sim owners will often charge for any extra prims if you want them adding to your parcel - you know, like prim rental.
If you are going over your limit and using these prims from the pool without paying for them, aren't you in effect stealing from your landlord?

Hi Claire,
Exactly that is why I (and a few other posters in this thread) call it cheating and/or stealing.

Wether you pay Linden Lab, or you pay a landlord of a private sim, you pay for a certain amount of prims. As soon as you intentionally use a temp rezzer to use more then the prims you pay for, it's indeed comparable to cheating and/or stealing.

When I first heard of temp rezzing, I read somewhere that you can go about 50% over the amount of prims allocated to your parcel. But i was under the impression that those prims were extra on the 15000 a sim can hold. In that case, using temp rezzers would not have been cheating, because you are using a kind of extra reserve of prims. But that seems not to be the case, each and every temp rezzed prim counts, and if you use more then you pay for, you are using somebody elses prims.

Now one more example for Phil.
My employer has quite some money. For the work I am doing, I am entitled to a certain amount of that cash. But, knowing hey dont use up all that cash, I grab a few hundreds each month, there is more then enough anyway. As soon as they start using all that money each month, I will stop grabbing more then I am entitled to, but as long as there is a surplus, I see no problems in taking what I need.

Now why is above sample considered stealing, and using someone elses prims not? Each prim on a private sim costs about 2 cents tier for the estate owner. So if you use 100 prims more then you pay them tier for, you are in fact stealing US$ 2 from them each month. No matter wether they use the full 15000 or not. Does that make my point of view some clearer?


Greetings, Marcel

on any of my rental land temp rezzers are immediately returned.

Why not stick to the discussion instead of making it personal? You have no idea what I would in any given circumstances, and side-stepping to have a pot at someone is really very silly.

Oh! So *you* have rules, eh, and the use of temp rezzers is against those rules? LOL. Btw, who is the "our", as in "our rules"? You and who else? Would you like to show me your rules? Where can I find them? Let me guess. They are unwritten rules, right?

Isn't it odd then that LL says that it's not against the ToS, and only take action when they actually affect other people. You can call it what you want, but I prefer to view things that actually are, rather than as what they are not.

Incidentally, your example is an example of stealing, and not an example of temp rezzer operations.

Orbiting another avatar isn't in the ToS as a rule either. However, it is common sense that this violates the rules. Orbiting someone, without their consent, is agaisnt the rules.

Rezzing over a prim-limit intentionally is exploiting the system. ie, you are using in-world scripts/etc to go beyond the limits set by the SL system (prim-limits per parcel). To such an extent, using the rezzer in such a fashion is an EXPLOIT, which IS covered in the ToS.

That LL chooses not to police the Grid for rezzers is understandable. One, they lack the resources. Two, unless reported, the rezzers come in all makes and sizes and scripts and would be very hard to find. Obviously, LL shares your outlook, to a point, or they wouldn't allow the advertising of rezzers for the purpose of going above the prim-limit.

However, that does not mean it will always be that way. LL's rules change almost as much as the code. This is to adapt to the ever changing world. Mega-prims above 256m will be non-existant once Havok4 goes live, for example. And LL has talked time and time again about removing temp-prims from the system due to their abuse. The main abuse is going above the prim-limit, and/or impacting sim-erformance. Usually in reguards to griefers, but with LL intent is immaterial. The effect is what they look at.

So to say you need to see a rule expressly written out against temp-rezzers going above the prim-limit is only fooling yourself. You can bury your head in the sand a la LL style, or you can open your eyes and mind and actually understand the conotations involved.

~Jessy

I didn't say that I "need to see a rule expressly written out against temp-rezzers going above the prim-limit", Jessy. I said I need to see the rule that someone mentioned. A rule that covers it will do. There is a rule that covers orbiting people, griefing, and such, without naming those specific actions. If I can see a rule that covers using more prims than is allocated to the parcel, then I'll accept it. But I do think that the only rules being refered to here are ones that the referrer is either guessing exists, or using a biased interpretation of. We do see in this forum where Lindens have told people that temp rezzers are not against the ToS.

What happens in the future will happen in the future. It isn't now. LL may ban temp rezzers, or some uses of them, but to the best of my knowledge there is no rule or ToS statement that prohibits their various uses.

And orbitors are not against the ToS. MISuse of them is.

Same as rezzers. Using them is not against the ToS. Using them to exploit the system is.

I can't explain that any simplier.

~Jessy

There are threads here that say different, Jessy. There was one a few days ago, for instance, where someone wa using a tem rezzer on a 16m plot to rezz a hell of a lot more than the 3 allocted prims. The complainer was told, by the Linden who dealt with it, that it isn't against the ToS. If my memory is correct, the complainer even had to remove a prim that wa overhanging the 16m plot, although i could be mixing 2 threads up with that.

With due respect, I do think that you are using your own interpretation of the ToS.