Should Linden Lab require certification for these SL 'Therapists'?

Whoa! What far reaching assumptions you just made. Want me to list your mis-steps here?

Avavlon thank you for making the effort to post here and bring some RL and SL therapy experiences to light. Hopefully LL will reach out to the accredited community (as they did with educators) and highlight your activities so people seeking help in SL can locate professionals.

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Lias ~ A few posts back I asked you how LL regulates [?] educators. You have repeated this several times now, and I am still curious and still don't know how this is done and under what circumstances. I do know that if you claim to be an educator to receive a discount on sim purchases, LL will investigate your RL credentials. Is there more to it than that?

Thank you.

I do believe it's only regulated in correlation with the discount on sims. Just claiming to be an educator won't get LL asking for credentials, and unless you are buying a discounted sim, I've found nowhere to even register yourself as a RL educator. There are various groups, and resources, but these are mostly free to join, with no prerequisite of passing some background check, or anything of the sort.

Educators are not, as far as I know, regulated in Second Life. Only the sale of discounted sims to educators.

http://secondlifegrid.net/slfe/education-use-virtual-world
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SLED
http://secondlife.com/land/privatepricing.php

Quite correct. I teach in SL, with no credentials other than my track record. SL topics only, so far, but I'd be happy to teach RL subjects too.

I'm a teacher. It's part of who and what I am. I'm not certified or credentialed by any RL organization. I just...teach. No complaints from the customers, either in SL or RL.

Thank you, Keira. The same goes for non-profits as well, I take it?

Again, this raises the issues for countries other than the USA that might have different accreditation/charitable standards? However that pans out, it is LL's SL, and, honestly, they are free to set whatever standards they need to maintain order.

This is incorrect. There is a Linden In charge of the RL educators and they have a forum I have seen. The Lindens sponsor their events and use these as fluffy marketing opportunities for Linden Lab

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Education_Support_Faire


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I assume that the same is true of non-profits, though these are more strictly regulated by law, anyway. Saying you're a teacher in RL, and lying, won't cause much damage usually. Saying you're a non-profit organization, and taking donations, and so on, will get you into heaps of trouble in RL law. This isn't negated by the fact that it's a virtual world, as far as I know.

They offer various tools to educators, including the SL Educator's wiki, and a forum, but after some time of searching, I find nothing that requires any sort of verification, other than the reduced pricing.

They don't say anything about registering as a RL educator in their guidelines for RL educators, even, though they advise joining a variety of groups, which have open enrollment.

http://simteach.com/wiki/index.php?title=Second_Life:_Guidelines_for_Educators

Some time of searching? 3 minutes? I just posted the link you said did not exist. I think you need to look further.

In any case we see that Linden Lab has added educators to their wiki and sponsors events by them. I think the same can be accomplished for the mental health community here in SL - and take it to a even higher level than they have with the educators.

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I've searched before, Lias, and no, you didn't. The link you posted is just more support provided, nothing there says you must, or even should, register with LL as a RL educator. They do not regulate educators, they only regulate the sale of sims at reduced prices.

They do not have stringent regulations but they do have regulations and organized support from Linden Lab for educators in SL. The Linden in charge of this is Pathfinder Linden.

The same could exist for the Mental Health Community and I believe it should. It is quote easy for Linden Lab to support the professionals that choose to prove their credentials.

And, yes, Linden Lab also shows supports for non profits


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The issue the thread is asking about, I thought, was should LL regulate it, and require registration/certification, not whether they should offer support, and the question that I've been responding to was one posed to you, which was how LL regulates educators, not how it helps them.

Again, LL does NOT regulate educators. At all. It offers support, and various resources, but all of this are completely open and freely available, aside from the reduced pricing. I can get to the same resources as a Harvard professor, yet I am a 19 year old kid who isn't even attending college.

LL regulates reduced pricing (Mostly because they don't want to lose money), not the educators themselves. If a reduced pricing abuse file comes through, and they determine the person is not a RL educator, they'll force payment (And back payment is in their right, as well) for the educational priced sim, but they will let them stay in the educator's group, and leave them alone other than that. (Though, they could ban if they wanted. Maybe they would. Dunno).

Yes, LL could offer some support to those therapists and such that are in SL. That would be great. There's support and resources available for many fields, and this is another that could benefit from it. But that wasn't the question posed, that I was responding to.

Wrong. Those that receive that discount must prove that they are a real educator connected to a RL education facility. And that is regulating. Then once LL has gathered that information they use it to group these sims together onto a 'campus' continent and sponsor events and activities. That is regulation and support. It is not stringent regulation - but it is obviously there.

As far as CERTIFYING therapists and mental health professional - Linden Lab could put out the same amount of effort they do for educators (and add some simple guildelines these menatl health professionals must agree to to receive this certification). This would create a safer way for people seeking mental health services in SL to receive them.

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Well, thank god it's just the "educators", not the teachers.

You had me worried there for a minute.

It is regulating, but it's arguable as to what it's regulating. It's only applicable when it comes to sim pricing, and has no affect other than that sim pricing. I'd say that's regulating the use of reduced price sims, not regulating the educator, who can do their thing however they want without any regulation, as long as they don't try to buy a sim at the educational/non-profit pricing.

But that's just me.

LL does not regulate educators, charities, attorneys, psychologist, psychiatrist, doctors, or any other professional organization [see below]. The RL legal system, state and sometimes federal, determines through regulations how particular groups and individuals are to be ruled. You want to be part of the system, then you need to play by the rules.
Main Entry: reg·u·late
Pronunciation: \ˈre-gyə-ˌlāt also ˈrā-\
Function:transitive verb Inflected Form(s):reg·u·lat·ed; reg·u·lat·ing
Etymology:Middle English, from Late Latin regulatus, past participle of regulare, from Latin regula rule
Date:15th century 1 a: to govern or direct according to rule b (1): to bring under the control of law or constituted authority
(2): to make
[url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

So Linden lab reviews the activities of these educators on a regular basis. If they do not follow the REGULATIONS then they loose their status.

The same could occur for Mental Health professionals in SL quite easily.


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You're missing the point. YES, there are regulations. But those regulations are for the use of educational/non-profit priced sims. NOT for educators in general. They don't lose any 'status', they just lose the educational pricing of the sim.

Also, LL isn't particularly regular about the reviewing, and mostly only takes action if a discrepancy is brought to their attention. There are a number of improperly used nonprofit sims out there.

I believe Keira has it right, Lias. All LL cares about is that the educational/nonprofit sims they give that price break on are being used for educational/nonprofit use.

They say NOTHING (and care nothing) about how well said educators are "following the regulations" of their governing bodies. For that matter, they don't care about the quality of the education/services provided. All they care about is that they ARE "legitimate" educational or nonprofit activities.

I bet if I set up a nonprofit corporation, I too could get a good deal on a sim from LL. Maybe I will...and then rent out the place to the BDSM School and similar outfits.

For the sake of argument, let's call the LL "regulations" TOS or policies.

Regulated professions are a legal standard that has nothing to do with LL policies.

There is no huge employee force required to check a license for a group or individual of any kind in this country. For LL, it would require the part-time effort of one person in their legal department.

As I posted a link before to the SLBA, and as Avalon, I think has been attempting to do with her organization, is to bring legitimacy to professional providers in SL. I applaud this effort and support it wholeheartedly.

However, the problem arises with psychotherapy on a number of fronts:
1. Just because you have a license does not make you competent.
2. Just because your specialty is not a regulated industry does that make you any less qualified?
3. You don't have to be licensed if you don't want insurance reimbursement.
4. If you aren't licensed then you don't show up in a regulatory agency database.

At that point, LL does not have the resources to track down everyone claiming status as a psychotherapist.

Again, and again, and it is worth repeating, Caveat Emptor, and I write it in the Latin because being taken advantage of goes back thousands of years and that wisdom still holds true today.

And yet they check every non-profit and education application that comes across their desk.

And I believe they do have the resources and I believe it is worth the effort.

As we learned from people calling themselves banks; unregulated anything will be gamed and used to take advantage of people. I recall the picture of the new huge house of the SL Banker that ran off with everyone's money.

Live. Learn. Be pro-active.

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Again...a piece of paper does not competency or honesty insure.

Checked your RL bank lately?

only the ones who have the lower priced sims are the ones checked, and the only status they lose is the low cost sim status. It has nothing to do with certifying to the public that this is a legit educational or non profit entity.

any person or educator can set up a school in SL and LL will not check up to confirm they are a legit teacher, or school, UNLESS they are applying for that special sim, otherwise they are just another resident, just like anyone else, who can claim to be whatever they want to claim to be. They can offer bogus certificates for course completion etc, and LL will not check on it.

They do not regulate the educational/non profit sectors to that degree... again I repeat... UNLESS said entity is applying for the low cost sim break.

they check them, because these people are applying for the cost break on the non-profit and education sims

you can bet if they offered the cost break to the medical profession, that the therapists and psychologists and other drs would be applying too.