Should Linden Lab require certification for these SL 'Therapists'?

Yes, and it's a good thread with valid questions and comments. Shame it got derailed.

I am not even English.

Pep (That *is* true)

I'm going to be presumptuous now, and suggest that if everyone wants to make this thread useful, then stop discussing the OP's provocative but ultimately futile suggestion that "therapists" of any sort should be certified, and focus on whether there are effective methods of offering support and assistance (such as HoneyBear's Garden of Remembrance) to those 99.99% of the sl population (that excludes just me and whoever is reading this, of course) that need counselling of some sort or another for their problems.

Pep (offers broad and slightly damp shoulders to many in sl)

We are already on that slippery slope. Remember the banks? You can still offer banking in SL...provided that you can prove you are a "real, professional" bank in RL, with the proper charter and insurance and all. (Not that any of that's much of a guarantee. Look what's happening to the RL banks. But I digress...)

The banking example is sure to be widely held up, the first time someone sues an SL "therapist" or "lawyer" or any other person claiming to be a professoinal. And then we'll see even more requirements for "prove you are what you say you are".

Time was, anyone could say they were anything. Their work spoke for them, not some piece of paper. SL used to be like that...I see it changing more and more, losing its looseness and freedom, hemming us all in, weaving the tight net of regulations, permissions, and safeguards around us all. In other words, becoming more like Real Life. Dammit.

I deserved that.

so to try to get it back rolling I'll restate my key conclusion.

the real world authorities already have laws, regulations, and procedures in place for the qualification, verification, and discipline of people claiming a professional license (whether legitimate or not) and it would be burdensome and redundant for LL to actively monitor or administer those policies, never mind being outside their bailiwick.

and I will second pep's suggestion to focus on methods that make helping others more effective and useful (regardless of professional certification).. peer support has been one I've seen (and can be very useful for specific a focus), I think HoneyBear's is imaginative and uses the venue to a wonderful extent also. too many people try to just copy ideas into SL from the web or real life, and ignore the unique nature of what the environment has to offer (applies to SOOO many topics)

and with that I'm off to nap.

@Void

Thanks for the clarification on 'therapist'. I think it can be taken as read that my arguments here regard the deeper aspects of therapy as opposed to a form that focuses on relaxation techniques, meditation or just blowing off some steam.

In the absence of a mechanism to ensure residents are not putting themselves at the mercy of hacks and charlatans, it is neither feasible nor healthy to run these services without some form of supervision or endorsement from a recognised authority. If the Lindens are not in a position to ensure practitioners are properly accredited, then the onus should be on the sim owner, which I would see as a recognised health provider, a registered charity or one of the universities as opposed to a private sim owner.

Outside of that, the practice of any form of therapy requiring RL accreditation should be forbidden in SL unless a private practitioner is prepared to give full disclosure of his or her RL details.

I reckon I've just about knocked my head senseless on this one today, at the expense of some work I should be doing, but, as far as I am concerned, the issue is unquestionably more sensitive than those of adult/mature content and ageplay discussed elsewhere, which are serious issues nonetheless.

@Paracelsus

Again, thanks for the clarification.


No ice, thanks, and a glass of tap water on the side if you don't mind - room temperature.

Ephraim Kappler roars laughing: I missed all the shenanigans on the previous page while I was straining my brain. Bugger!


I don't think there is any harm in SL tightening up a little. As for someone's work speaking for them, that's all well and good but what would you say to someone's work precipitating another resident's nervous breakdown through incompetence?

There is a considerable difference between a crap texture or bad script and the potential to make someone's troubles worse owing to incompetent advice.

ARGH! TAP WATER?! If you must, only from a pure spring that few of us have a luxury in our modern homes.

And since the Colonies don't know the difference . . . you must seek out cask strength whiskey.

Oh, and to make this relevant to the forum topics, many authentic therapies have taken place over a decent libation. See Fritz Perls.

That is exactly the argument used every time someone wants to institute another registration/licensing/regulation scheme. "We have to insure the quality of the service being provided."

I say, if you want to hire an engineer, have him point to the bridges he's built that haven't fallen down. If you want a therapist, have her give you referrals from patients she's helped. If you want a teacher, talk to their former students.

Licensing, in most cases, is a joke. You take some courses, you get your ticket for...whatever. And you're presumed to know what you are about, solely because of that piece of paper. You can still be a fool, or lazy, or incompetent, or malicious...but, by god, you're a Licensed Professional.

Nuts to that, and doubly so in an anonymous virtual world. Do your homework. A piece of paper is no substitute for real competence, and is certainly no guarantee of it.

Actually a true connoisseur would only use water from the same locality as the whisky, otherwise the taste would be spoiled.

Pep (Same goes for the water used to make the ice)

PS if you absolutely *have* to dilute it, which is not my style

The Colonies? Are you saying you're in the Colonies?

I only ask because I share my birthplace with uisce beatha and tomorrow is our day. I'm very far from the Colonies and my birthplace for that matter.


I couldn't agree more: a decent drink is the best therapy by far - on fully licensed premises, of course. Failing that, any sibín will do.

PS. Never mind Pep: that's just sasanach fussiness. The day and hour you treat whisky like a connoisseur should be the day you take the pledge.

Where I live, the only available therapeutic [in keeping with the thread topic] water is used for brewing beer. And, nope, no dilution on this end as it interferes with the therapeutic process. I might add, that I am well therapized.

My friend did an an interesting interview with a RL and SL counsellor that some of you might find interesting. I asked about some of these similar concerns in the comments of this link:

http://kateamdahl.livejournal.com/46684.html

No, and we should go one step more and demand our real world governments repeal these license laws which do nothing but increase costs for the consumer and provide a monopoly for the "certified".

I didn't realise you were Welsh, Ephraim; after all, the Irish are only the Welsh that could swim.

And I am delighted you recognise that it is "our day". I find it a constant source of amusement that the most venerated "Irishman" was actually a Welshman who emigrated to bring enlightenment to the land of the bogs, announcing himself by the "miracle" of driving snakes off the island when, in fact, there had never been any there in the first place!

Pep (Given the choice, I drink Irish rather than Scotch as well)

It would be impractical for Linden Lab to try to watch over every claim of a professional service offered within Second Life. And going after things like therapists' credentials would be difficult, because it varies state-by-state (not to mention country-by-country).

However, unlicensed practice of things like medicine, psychiatry, and law are serious matters, because the people who fall victim are vulnerable (have a mental, medical, or legal need without the money to hire a professional) and the results of following bad advice have devastating consquences. Plus, the states in the United States typically have very serious enforcement and penalties when it comes to these kinds of offenses.

If Linden Lab knows it goes on, and does nothing about it, it's leaving open a liability issue. There are a select few things (in-world doctoring and lawyering would fall into the category) where it would serve itself well to take an interest. But we know they won't (until sued or questioned by law enforcement), and that's their problem.

If you are concerned about people being hurt by charlatans, you'd do well to report them to various state agencies (if you are in the U.S.) Those who have used such unlicenced services should report to the appropriate regulatory board in that person's state (just about every state is going to have a regulatory board for psychiatry). Or report it to your attorney general. If enough claims pile up, some regulatory agency is going to come knocking on Linden Lab's door.

Though I'm sure some sort of national organization exists that would care about this happening, I can't figure out which one after just a quick search.

But we say that and Linden Lab has regulated education and puts quite a bit of financial and human resources behind it - and they have hired a outside company to regulate the real life age of EVERYONE.

.

I was under the impression tomorrow was 'our day' for everybody and the entire planet becomes Irish?

Mebbe I shouldn't be laying into the whisky just yet?

Absolutely well said. If LL starts "regulating" professionals, or lay folk, where does the limit of their liability end? Even professionals can be worse then some lay people who are actually quite well trained. Frankly, no regulatory agency is ever going to come knocking on LL's door, as most can't keep up with immediate problems, and it would be much the same as a phone book company being held liable for not overseeing who is listing what in its directory.

People who use service providers must become informed before payment is made. Anyone look at the TOS about such matters? I'm too lazy today.

When did the Scots start making whiskey?! Do regulators know about this atrocity? I hear the cry of my great grandfather, Cornelius O'Regan, from his grave. Pep, don't ever make bad jokes like this again. [Off to take a nitro.]

Again, LL regulates educators and hired a outside agency to verify everyone's true identity and age.

I believe the FBI and the IRS came knocking on Sl's door. That is why banking, gambling and child avatars were regulated.

This is excellent. Thank you.

.

You are going to need to sit down with a stiff one PS (and you Ephraim) because the Scots started making whisky (no e, to distinguish it) a couple of centuries (13th) after the Irish (11th) and 1200 years after the Welsh (chwisgi, but we wouldn't expect anyone outside Wales to be able to pronounce that) the recipe and the process being exported with the monks that stole the secret from the Druids' clutches.

Pep (Bourbon whiskey of course dates from the far distant, ahem, 18th century)

PS All dates from wikipedia, if you believe it

An appropriate reply would completely derail the thread, Pep, so open a new thread in General Discussion or Resident Answers immediately. You are in need of correction, boy.

In my small minded way, I was referring to agencies such as the APA. There is little comparison between the laws and regulatory agencies for banking/gambling/child abuse and the human services associations. If the APA does ever come knocking, and LL breaks under the stress, I'll eat my words.

Forgive me if I say the banking/gambling comparison is more than a little cynical. Regulation doesn't become more important simply because finance is at stake: child abuse and health service provision require more attention if anything because the coping mechanisms of individuals are at a low ebb to begin with in such cases. Being broke and being emotionally or physically vulnerable sometimes overlap, sometimes they are interrelated, but the latter is far more serious in the long term than a sting in the wallet.

It isn't enough to just shake our heads and say "the Lindens can't handle it" or moan about the good old days when it seems residents could get away with anything in SL and wasn't that just the dog's b@ll@cks? SL is developing. There are myriad directions residents can work in without insisting on protecting shabby pseudo-health service mechanisms - and I use the word 'shabby' advisedly because any form of health provision that is not regulated is just that. If residents want such things then SL should be modified to provide them properly through appropriate bodies that assume a presence in-world.

Otherwise lets forget it and follow our imagination wherever it leads or whatever. Some things are better left to the boring old nuts and bolts of RL - a defeat for the potential of virtual worlds, in my opinion, but there you go.

Note Sometime last year I read that the Spanish Ministry of Health opened a counseling unit on sexual health for adolescents where teenagers could seek advice anonymously from trained professionals. Presumably this was on the teen grid but I would dearly like to see a report on how that project was set up and how it subsequently fared.