Limiting theft by limiting creation

Yes, Farmville is a social entertainment product; interaction with others is key to it. It simply manages that interaction to keep it interesting. People in large groups aren't entertaining; so don't put them in large groups.

I had an odd thought when I read this. I wonder if a fair chunk of the griefing isn't in fact a form of nerd rage. They couldn't keep themselves from the bottom of the pecking order in RL but in SL they suddenly are the ones with the power....so they go overboard using it and get some sort of twisted revenge feeling from it.

Absolutely. It's nerd rage. But it's nerd rage that comes, not just from being at the bottom of the pecking order in RL, but from being at the bottom in SL too.

(And I see that Talarus has apparantly walked away, which is the ultimate expression of the "cool kid" dominance: 'See? I can just leave, and I'm fine, but you lose out.')

Geeks aren't at the bottom of the pecking order in SL. Geeks are the jocks in SL. Wizards. Rockstars. If they're destructive it's not because they're at the bottom of the pecking order in SL, though some might find themselves at the bottom of the pecking order because they're destructive. They're destructive because that's their kick.

Nope. They might be marginally better at some of the technical skills involved, but it doesn't count for much if they aren't getting any social interaction where they can express those things. Moreover, artistic skill tends to be more important now due to the rising quality bar, and that seems to be a much less geeky thing that the technical side. That's true even in business now, where marketing and networking have become just as important as the quality of the product.

The potential range of free-form RPs is limited only by the collective imaginations of the participants. That is, effectively, infinite.



I've found the opposite to be true. Conversations and interactions are often determined by the venues. I expect to find a lot more fantasy RP in an elven forest venue than in a modern human nightclub.



Same.



This is completely inaccurate. You're contradicting yourself. If it were actually random or chaotic, it would depend on NOTHING. Human behavior is about as far from random or chaotic as you can reasonably get. It is very deterministic and predictable; not TOTALLY deterministic and predictable, but you can bet on it (good poker players do all the time). All you have to do is sit back and watch, and you will see the patterns of behavior emerge from quite obvious stimuli.

I won't say that there is no uncertainty involved, but it is MOST certainly NOT "random" or "chaotic" in the least.



It doesn't matter; a system is not required to successful integrate a person into a group. In fact, such "systems" are far less successful in doing so because of the limited application of their constraints.



The fact that one person doesn't have such difficulties isn't worth thinking about? Am I somehow THAT unique and special? Well, no, I *KNOW* I am not, because I am regularly surrounded by people who also don't have such difficulties.

What does that say about your assumptions regarding the "whole membership of SL"?



No, I didn't say there was a "random set of people", I said there were some who choose to be more or less miserable and attempt to foist it on others against their will. As a result, they don't "deserve attention" in the sense that they are breaking the social contract in attempting to STEAL it. Do you think that someone who robs a bank DESERVES the money they stole?

How do I know if they are happy being the potted plant or not? When someone exhibits a particular behavior regularly, even though offered an alternative to that behavior enough times to reinforce the fact that they prefer their behavior, I think it is more than safe to say that they are comfortable with it, if not "happy" with it.

Ultimately, they are responsible for their own state of affairs. If they are not happy with it, then it is up to them to find the strength to say "I'm responsible for my own problems and the only way I can solve them is to take action to fix them, with help, if necessary", and then follow through by DOING something about it.

Otherwise, they are "happy" with their state of affairs, and people should leave them alone until such time as that situation changes.



As long as there is at least one other person with whom to interact, attention and social respect is no more limited than one's ability to generate it, and another's ability to accept it. Give and Take. It's that simple.



Sure it can, and it does. Look at most groups in SL. They have roles which have different levels of authority and responsibility. Most of the time, it is a form of "social ordering", and it is treated as such.

I have a an interesting quote for you to ponder: "The human being created civilization not because of willingness but of a need to be assimilated into higher orders of structure and meaning." While it is a bit trite, it is nonetheless a fairly accurate view of the situation.



Even people who grief often do it for acceptance into cliques. I don't see a lot of individuals who are long-time accomplished griefers. I see a lot of people who do it in groups, like the PN, because their antics give them status amongst their peers.

As far as our groups go, our "bottom" contains some of the best people in the group. That's because the upper echelons are designed to be functional and not titular. In other words, the staff exist to support everyone "below" them in a reverse-pyramidal construct. The Elder Guardians support the Guardians, who support the Mentors, who support the Guides, who support the Volunteers, who support the Citizens. The Citizens are the most important people at the Isle, and we never let them forget it.

We also "weed out" those who choose to take unfair advantage of or disrupt our community.

You know what promotion to "Guardian" gets you at the Isle? A shiny new mop and bucket, a clap on the shoulder, and a boot in the rear with the words "get to it!", all in good humor, though.



I think Neil could be classified as another type of "drama whore". He's being the "bad boy" for the sake of notoriety. If it wasn't SL, it would be ActiveWorlds, or There, or even WoW. It isn't a matter of "hate"; the "kill SL" comment was to engender more drama and that is all.



You'd be surprised just how simple many people are, primarily because it is easy to just be lazy and be nothing more than a lump of stimulus/response matter. That's why the confidence game is so successful.



..and what I am describing is my experience. It isn't a waste of life because it consists of really cool and enjoyable interactions with other people in interesting venues where few people are idle because there are so many other people around them enjoying themselves doing something.

I don't know what to tell you, really, other than there is something about your experiences which is radically different than mine. Whether that is just you, or the people with whom you choose to hang out, or the venues in which you hang out with them, I don't know. All I can tell you is that your experience isn't universal. Neither is mine, but then I am not claiming it is.



A "cool kid" attack? You gave your bad experience, and I agree with you that it sucks, and that I am glad it doesn't happen to me. Why doesn't it happen to me? Because I choose not to let it do so? I choose venues, people, and situations where it doesn't happen? I go to where I can enjoy myself, rather than expecting it to come to me? Could be a million different reasons; I don't know. I don't have your experiences, so I can't tell you why or why not for sure. All I can tell you is that it IS out there, that you CAN find it, that you CAN do it, but only if you want to and care enough to try and find it, and then get out of it what you are wanting, as long as your wants don't exceed what everyone else is willing to give, or CAN give.



I got that information within a day or so of joining the Isle after joining SL. I would not have gone to Gor first anyway, because I am not interested in Gor.

If someone is socially inept enough to buy an expensive Dragon avatar, then go barreling into 20 modern human clubs looking for Dragon RP and finding naught but wide-eyed people and ejection from the parcel, they shouldn't feel cheated; they should feel stupid. If they quit as a result of doing something stupid, well, that's life. Some lessons (most lessons, in many cases) are learned the hard way.



Well, it happens. I never claimed otherwise. I just claim that it can have different results. It does for more people than myself, too.



Nice try to play numbers; I speak of those whom I KNOW. Several of the Isle groups have thousands of residents in them, and that's just the Isle of Wyrms. There are thousands of other groups out there, some with as many or more than even we have.

It has nothing to do with chance, or percentages. You're not rolling dice (or if that is how you're choosing your experiences, maybe that's the problem here).

I found my "home" and my "kind" my first day in SL, because I knew what I wanted, and sought it out. I have been happy (for the most part) ever since. I didn't "chance" onto the Isle, it was one of the first places I found after doing a bit of research, talking to people, and simply exploring.

I didn't "walk away". I have RL work and chores to do. I just posted another wall of text for you to pick apart and respond to.

..and, yes, I *CAN* just leave, and I'm fine with it, but you would only lose out if that is what you *WANTED* from that situation.

See how that works? It has nothing to do with "being the cool kid". Hell, I am probably on more people's ignore list in this forum than even Pep. Though, he'd likely argue with me on that one, since it is a personal goal of his.

Exactly. And thus, if you pick a random free-form RP from that range, the chance of it being one that I (or that any given single person) would strongly dislike is much greater than it would be if you picked a random conversation from the range of conversations.



Well, most elven forests I've found are empty, and the elves went to the nightclub because it was better than nothing.



Yes, that's why I talked about chaos. The behaviour of each individual is fairly predictable, but in practice, who you happen to bump into can depend on whether you log in at 8:04 or 8:05, whether you turn left or right while looking around in the sandbox, and all of these similar things for all of the people potentially involved. That's the point of the "butterfly wings" example - the weather system is technically all deterministic and predictable, but it becomes unpredictable because there are just too many factors that might affect it, and their effect can be far out of scale from their visibility.



A system is not required to successfully integrate a person into a group. A system _is_ required to integrate 55,000 people per day into appropriate groups.



Right, but no amount of reasoning about your own (or my own) experiences will scale to the whole membership of SL. What I'm looking at is the global picture and the dynamics of those groups that form. If there is a pecking order, then someone is at the bottom. You might be able to meet 100 friends who are all at the tops of their own, but that doesn't change the fact that there must be someone on SL who is at the bottom.



Right, but you also said that they continued not to deserve attention even if they changed their behaviour (and, in fact, if they aren't getting attention, how will anyone know their behaviour changed?).



Not at all. People do behaviours they dislike for years on end, sometimes.



They don't think like that. They say, "I'm not enjoying this, but it's the only way those other people are prepared to accept me; I would be rejected if I did anything else."



Yes, it was needed in real civilization to get everyone fed and stop us killing each other. It isn't needed in the movie theater where it results in there being a "bottom" 10% who have to watch the movie with blindfolds on. And SL will not be stable as long as it has it.



I'm not talking so much about formal hierarchies as about the person who gets to set the direction in whatever RP scenes occur.



Right, but assuming that they are therefore happy doing that is also wrong. (What's "the confidence game"?)



Right, but that's not describing something you did, that's something that happened to you when you did it. Saying that because it had different results for me than you, that therefore I don't enjoy the action _that I did_, is a misrepresentation.



It's a cool kid attack because you basically said "well, that's sad, but _I'm_ fine". How do you make these choices?



But how did you know to join the Isle?



If someone buys an expensive Dragon avatar, goes to several fantasy sims and finds them empty and/or hostile, then goes to several human nightclubs because those are the places that are open and contain green dots.. I wouldn't say they're doing anything stupid.



Right. But you then went on to claim that if I had tried the behaviour "and didn't like it" then I should just give up and that would be fine because I didn't like it. And that's a misrepresentation. I didn't dislike the behaviour, I disliked the _results_.



It's not to do with probability, it's to do with proportion. If your groups can only cover 10% of the population of SL then there must somewhere be 90% of that population who can't get into them. The choice of the 10% will, most likely, be determined by social chaos as I described above.



Right, but if the Isle can only support 10% of the people in SL then you had to have the fortune of "fitting into" that 10% in order to get in. It's like if a full underground train pulls up - everyone is going to try to get on, but no matter what they do, not everyone actually will.

Well, you see, that's where the concept of tact comes into play. If you just "happen upon" a group, you don't just "jump in" with whatever. You walk up, issue greetings and LISTEN for a little bit to see if the situation is something that interests you. If it isn't, you make your excuses, bid the group good tidings, and move on to another group.

Also, the concept of PICKING A GOOD VENUE comes into play here AGAIN. If you would like to talk and RP with Dragons, DO NOT GO TO MODERN HUMAN NIGHT CLUBS!

This stuff is just common sense.

I'm beginning to think you're intentionally setting up these scenarios to become epic fail, just so you have some kind of reason to not bother. You don't have to go to that trouble, just say "I DON'T LIKE IMPROMPTU RP, OK?", and be done with it.



Try other elven forests. Try the Isle. Use the SEARCH ENGINE. Try at different times. Go to Elven towns instead of the forests. Find the right people in the right venue. ASK SOMEONE. This isn't an advanced social concept; it is grade-school playground rules.



Oh good grief. You're moving the goalposts here. Now everything is random, not because people's behavior is random and unpredictable, but because of when you log in? When you logged into SL, did you press the "Roll Dice" button instead of the "Login" button? Other people don't change their behavior based on the exact moment you log in. I'm still a Dragon at 8:04 AND 8:05. I'm still going to respond to you pretty much within a similar set and range of parameters, no matter when you encounter me in a short period of time. In fact, I daresay when you run into me is going to be a FAR less significant factor in how I respond to you than how you present yourself to me.



I've never used any system to be integrated into an "appropriate group", so, no, it is not required. AT ALL. Now, if YOU have to have it, great; find that system and get integrated!



It doesn't HAVE to; I am not interacting with the "whole membership of SL". I am interacting with a small subset of it, just like everyone else. What works for me MAY not work for everyone else, but it likely CAN, and likely WILL, tailored to that specific person's requirements. I've introduced a LOT of people to the Isle. I've introduced quite a few to SL proper. I gave them advice, and they've enjoyed the results that came from heeding it; most are still around, anyway.

I repeat, there's nothing special about how I interact with anybody. I'm not some "golden child" that everyone automatically loves and respects, nor would I really want to be. I've worked hard for the friends I have. I'm not doing anything "magical" to be and do in SL. I'm just being me.



I don't care about the "global picture"; it doesn't enter into the equations of interpersonal relationships and interactions. The dynamics of those groups that form are forged by their participants, not the rest of the residents in SL. That's the whole reason for having groups in the first place, is it not?



There is no absolute "pecking order" in any group of people. Groups develop cliques and subcliques.

If you asked me seriously if there was someone at the "bottom of the pecking order" in any of the Isle groups, I HONESTLY couldn't tell you. I'd probably even say that it is me, simply because I don't recognize "pecking orders" that go down to the level of individuals.

There is simply no NEED for them in SL. The only reason someone is "at the bottom" is because that is WHERE THEY WANT TO BE. Period. NO ONE has to stay "at the bottom". Hell, if they want, they can create a group of their own on a subject they feel competent in, and "sell" the idea of joining it to a few people, then THEY can be "at the top", for whatever it is worth.



No, there doesn't HAVE to be anyone "at the bottom", because there is no universal "pecking order" in SL. At worst, everyone is a peer to everyone else. Anyone who FEELS like they are at the bottom probably is putting themselves there through the process I have already described as self-fulfillment prophecies.

You may create that ordering in your mind, and then relegate yourself somewhere in it, but I don't have to subscribe to your ordering at all. I can put you "above" me, "beneath" me, or on my same level, in my own ordering. That's the only ordering *I* respect in the most general relation set.



I said no such thing. If you're going to paraphrase me, get it right. I said that people who exhibit negative leech-like behavior which attempts to draw unwarranted attention out of others don't deserve that attention. When they stop acting like leeches, then they deserve attention through the act of EARNING it, like everyone else who is behaving properly does. Don't try to bring the "See! That's where the system comes in!" crap, either; it doesn't take a hard set of rules to know when people are being leeches and to shun them until they stop. That goes back to the Social Contract, which is simply a form of etiquette.

When they change their behavior from leech to enjoyable participant it will be as obvious as the nose on your face.



If they do them when they don't have to, that's their problem, not mine. If they choose to suffer when they have no reason to do so, I can't help them other than to simply remind them that they don't have to suffer.



Then their thinking is wrong, and they need to get some perspective on their real problems, rather than subjecting themselves (and people around them) to more misery.



It was needed for a lot more than just the necessities, otherwise, we'd still be stone age hunter gatherers who live a nomadic life in small tribes.



Interesting, what planet do you live on where your civilization has movie theaters that make the "bottom 10%" (of what?) of their patrons watch the movie with blindfolds on? O.o



In free-form RP (the subject as far as I know, unless you changed it without sending me a memo), the person who gets to "set the direction" either changes constantly, or is selected by default "no one else wants to run with the ball tonight? OK, I guess it's my turn". If you wanted to run with the ball, all you would have to do is speak up. If it is jumping around to different people, step in whenever you want to take a turn.



I'm sorry, but that sentence doesn't parse for me.



The one that scammers and con-artists play to gyp you out of your money or valuables.



The experience and what I did to experience it are one in the same. The experience didn't just seek me out while I was hiding under a rock and "happen" to me, I was a part of it by GOING someplace and DOING something with other people.

It isn't a misrepresentation; did you or did you not say that you tried GOING someplace and DOING something with other people? Yes? Then I didn't misrepresent it. The fact that you didn't enjoy it doesn't change the fact that me making similar archetypal choices and actions had a different result.



No, that's how you chose to interpret it.



What choices? You mean where to go and what to do with whom to enjoy myself? Well, I sure as hell didn't "roll dice", or press the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button on the button bar. >.>



What part of "I researched, talked to people, and explored" isn't clear?



They are if they go into them wearing the expensive Dragon avatar looking for Dragon RP. Just because they fail to find it where it would be expected doesn't make it sensible to go looking for it where it would NOT be expected.



You claimed that all you all could think was, "Of course I don't know what to do, I can't do anything, that's why this was a dumb idea all along." That's being critical of the behavior, not simply the results.

If it was a misrepresentation, perhaps you should be a bit more clear.

The other point is that the results are directly tied to the behavior. If you didn't like the behavior, you'll likely not enjoy the results and vice-versa.



Who says that 90% of the population CAN'T get into them? I PROMISE you, if the other 90% (or whatever) of the SL population WANTED to get into them, we'd make room!



What choice? To join? Most people who join us discover us via different, but highly deterministic means, and choose to join based on their interests. "Chaos", social or otherwise, has very little to do with it, outside of simple exposure. If people don't know about us, then it is almost a sure bet they won't be joining us until they do. That's not "chaotic", that's about as deterministic as you can get.



We have no "set limit" to the number of people we can support, outside of the realistic limitations of the SL service itself. It's not like we have some arbitrary limit set in our charter. ANYone can join (as long as they behave themselves, that is).

What does that have to do with anything? If the sim was full when I showed up, I would have come back later. If it remained full every time I tried, I would probably have ended up in a different Dragon community, but I still would have tried. Once they got their resource overcommitment problem resolved, I would have eventually come back to participate.

That's all I have time for this evening, I am afraid. I am not walking away, though; I'll check in sometime later or tomorrow. I just would like to do something cool and fun with some people this evening; I hope you understand!

In addition, I hope you go and find something cool and fun to do, too.

Thats A lot of words up there!!!!

Do you suppose that Rihanna is still getting email notifications?

Sometimes, walking away is the best use for your time rather than getting stuck in a repeating argument loop.

the more brazen content thieves i've encountered in second life all had paid accounts and were noted, successful second life individuals. SURE some STOLE content and made a mint off of it, and parlayed those frauds into even greater financial rewards BUT THEY WERENT USING THROW AWAY ALTS TO DO IT!
Much greater contenttheft exists on the grid than some tard copybotting crap.

Holy crap.. would you like some anti-seizure medicine for that knee-jerk problem of yours?
I said, and I quote.. "now ADD IN open source viewer and you have a real problem".. As in.. add the additional funtionality that open source brings to the big theft issues SL already has? The "you" in that refers directly to LL and their side of policing all this. Nowhere at all did I say that open source was the issue, or even hint that it's introduction was anything more than a mere straw that potentially broke the camels back with reguards to theft. Many of the benefits it brings can be misused.. that's proven fact that can't be debated, but nowhere did I say it was the cause of anything. Try reading each post in its OWN context next time, instead of assuming every reply is part of some monster thread debate that everybody replying must be referring to. I happen to FULLY support open source contributions and viewers, and have done so ever since '07 when they first came into being

This...

I would have turned them off by now hehehe

Oh, sure. But it comes down to what I'm saying below - if there's a group who are happily doing something I'm not interested in then I'm not going to disturb them. But if in a couple of hours of SL I never find groups of any other type, then I still haven't had a good time. And because of the higher range, that's more likely if I'm looking for RP than if I'm looking for conversation.



Yes, I do know. I have tried all of the grade-school things, and they don't work. A while ago I posted the results of an experiment with some searching on a blog, but here it is in summary:

Search "fantasy": 25 sex builds. 24 shops/malls. 10 RP areas, of which only 3 were active with people in when I visited; and of those, 1 was Italian language only and 1 was locked down by banlines.

Ok, "Fantasy" has a clash with "sexual.." so search "fairy": 69 shops/malls. 6 sex builds. 3 clubs. 10 potential RP areas, of which 7 were empty and 3 were banlined off.

Now, things might have changed since then, but I'm fairly sure the pattern will remain.



Yes, but you're assuming that an encounter between us is predestined. If you instead think about a person A meeting a particular person B, when neither of them know each other already and don't have any arrangement, it's much more easy to get lost in the mish-mash. And everyone who wants to join a group is likely to be starting from that position.

Let me give you an example - the old Elvenglen sims used to have greeters at the TP point for new people arriving. While I was shopping there once, I saw a new person arrive, be met by the 2 greeters and whisked off to tour the island. Then, 30 seconds afterwards, someone else arrived, but the greeters were already gone, so they wandered around aimlessly and TPed out. See? A 30 second time difference, yet it made a huge difference to the result in terms of how they were treated and what kind of experience they had. Now multiply that by the several million such factors that might potentially affect people - and you have, practically textbook, chaos theory.



That's because you're just one person. I'm talking about 55000 per day.



Yes, and so is everyone. But the net _effect_ of that is that the chaos theory takes over, the proportions go out of whack, and a large percentage of the population is left disenfranchised. For everyone you introduced, there were hundreds you didn't. That's not your responsibility, of course - but it is a problem for SL as a whole.

Remember I'm not talking about people deliberately acting negatively here. I'm talking about the consequences of humans being human.



You assume that they can do that, but if they're low in social power or status, typically no-one will join, or an existing group will assimilate the people.

I already gave the example where I went around with a known RPer for a while, and got bored because I was always following her. I was inevitably below her in the pecking order.



That's a common assumption but it is merely an assumption.



No, but the practical result is that one someone is shunned they STAY that way. (If you are shunning them, how do you find out that they've changed?) On SL, where a "shunning" is often accompanied by a land ban, that effect is even more pronounced.



But if you are not looking at their face you will never see their nose..



But it becomes your problem when they become resentful of the society they're in and start breaking windows. Again, psychology is complex: they may feel forced even though they are not being - but for them, the effect of that is exactly the same as that of actually being forced.



So you're saying that _anytime_ anyone ever thinks "I have to act this way to be accepted", they are wrong? Um... I don't think so.



I'm using that as an analogy for what happens if an entertainment product has a pecking order. As long as SL has a pecking order, 10% of the population will be consuming the entertainment it provides at greatly reduced quality, just like watching a movie while blindfolded.



Right, but then, why does anyone start RP? If the other people involved wanted to do it, wouldn't they have already started?



Assuming that a person who is quiet, is therefore happy being quiet, is not justified.



Right, but that's because "going someplace and doing something" is so generic it could describe anything.

If you are saying that I did exactly the same actions as you and got different results, then what I disliked was the results, not the actions.

If you are saying that I didn't do exactly the same actions as you, then I was doing the wrong actions, and that says nothing about how much I might like doing the right ones.



Are you sure? What _did_ you do?

I was responding to the part of your post where you said this:The way I read that, this statement implies that you believe open source is at the root of the content theft problem, and that the only way to prevent it is to ditch OpenGL and go completely closed-source. If you had read further in my response, you would have seen where I pointed out the folly of believing closed-source, proprietary software is our saviour from this mess. The *only* thing going closed-source would accomplish would be to limit our choice in viewers, limit the features we have available to us, and shut out Linux users like me. It would *not* prevent content theft, which would continue on completely unabated. Therefore, going closed-source would only take away freedoms for no gain whatsoever.

Want proof of this? Most of the content theft going on these days involve exploiting vulnerabilities in the SL server code. It is worth pointing out that the server code is closed-source and not publicly available.

If I misinterpreted your post, then I apologize. I responded to how I read and perceived what you wrote. There has been so much anti-OS sentiment raging through here lately that it would be an easy misinterpretation to make.

And? Spit it out girl, don't leave us all hanging in suspense..........

Most groups doing open free-format RP don't mind someone walking up and greeting, or later bidding goodbye and leaving. "Disturb" isn't the issue. "Disrupt" is.

If a couple of hours in SL is all you' willing to try, then you're expecting a bit too much. In RL, finding groups to get involved with can take YEARS. In that case, the "instant gratitude" entitlement mentality is the problem.

Depending on what you want, it may simply not be found. If you want to get into a group that discusses some highly-specific, yet not so popular topic, you'll probably fail spectacularly finding it. Even still, that doesn't mean you can't start your own group on that subject and look for people to join.

As for me, I am willing to allow my standards to not be so highly-specific, thus allowing me a broader range of groups with which to get involved.



Yeah, with just two searches of one word each, I would fully expect you to find little to nothing. That's pretty austere, as efforts go.



I'm making no assumptions that we actually meet. I am saying that when we meet won't significantly change the parameters of our interaction in any "random" or "chaotic" way.



..and, yet, with a tiny bit of patience and willingness to understand that the world doesn't revolve around oneself, that person could have waited another 5 minutes for one of the greeters to return from showing someone else around, and would have showed them around. See? Something which is entirely in the control of the person searching, and their experience dictated by their own choices, rather than "being subject to chaos theory".



What about them? They don't need any "system", either. If they WANT a system, that's their choice, but they don't NEED it. What, you want someone around to hold each and every person's hand, guiding them unerringly to the most appropriate group(s)?

No, thank you. Not only is that an absurd expectation on its face, I (and MANY others) can and will do just fine without.



It is only a problem for people who need their hand held through social integration, maybe. SL isn't grade school; it's the end result of virtual life. No one should expect people to just appear out of nowhere and shepherd them around, being their step-n-fetch valet until they get their "virtual legs". There are groups that DO that, like NCI, but that should never be expected of the general SL population as a whole.

Life doesn't work that way, either, and that particular aspect of life should be reflected in SL, in my opinion.



The consequences of being human INCLUDE deliberately acting negative. Thus, it has to be taken into account no less than any other aspect of being human.



Again, social "power" or "status" is an illusion. It doesn't exist. If someone thinks they they are low in social power or status, then they will be, but only because they believe in it. The fact of the matter is that EVERY AVATAR is created equal in SL. Everyone was a noob at some point. Everyone had no more "social standing" than anyone else at that same point. After that point, they made friends, joined/created groups, interacted, and established themselves. Anyone coming into SL can't expect to have that experience handed to them on a silver platter. They have to go through the same motions as everyone else. Make friends, join/create groups, interact, and establish themselves. "I can't" is just an excuse for not trying; it is, instead, a self-fulfilling prophecy.



..because that is the way you saw yourself. You placed yourself below her. You followed her. You didn't try to lead. You just wanted to lurk in her shadow. It probably was safer, too. That way, if you goofed, you could defer to her responsibility for you as her charge. You got bored because you were too afraid to do anything on your own.

That's the way it sounds to me, anyway.



It is a LOT more than "merely an assumption". If you choose not to believe it, that's OK, but it doesn't make it any less true.



We "find out" when they actually make an effort to change themselves, and then come back and demonstrate that fact in any number of explicit ways, like apologizing for being the way they were (that's usually the easiest and quickest way, anyway).

We only ban people when they get disruptive to the point where other people are not having fun on our land when they are around. We don't ban people for simply having a bad day, or going through the throes of learning social graces, as long as they don't get disruptive. We often talk with people fairly extensively before we ban, unless their level of disruption merits more severe and expedient action on our part.



I always look at people with whom I am interacting. It is called "paying attention".



I am not responsible for anyone else's behavior but my own. If someone CHOOSES to express their problems in inappropriate ways, then they will be dealt with, but I will not be made to take their social failures onto myself. I'm willing to help someone, if they genuinely want help, but I won't take responsibility for their actions or "feelings", no matter what they are. Everyone has to deal with life, including me. If they can't do that, and instead have to turn on those who don't deserve it, then I am more than happy to send them on their way to their next "destination" without further ado, remanding their problems back onto themselves permanently, as far as I am concerned. I've had to do it a time or two, even over the objections of my peers as an Elder, but it was the right thing to do for the sake of our community, and I do not regret it in the least.



No, I am saying that when someone believes something about themselves or others which is NOT TRUE, they are wrong, and that they are the most responsible party for examining and changing their own beliefs. If they are unwilling to be responsible for that, then NO ONE can help them. NO ONE.

In addition, if they are HURTING other people in their bid to be "accepted", because of their incorrect beliefs, then they MOST CERTAINLY *ARE* WRONG.



If they want to bring a blindfold with them to wear at the theater, then I suppose so; however, neither the theater, nor the rest of the audience, is going to provide one for them, or require that they wear it, even if they do bring their own.

Again, they are suffering because they CHOOSE to suffer. No one is forcing them to do so.



Why does anyone do anything? Motivation. Desire. Prompting. Some days, I want to be a spectator. Other days, I want to be a storyteller. Still other days, I don't even want to play. Whenever the mood and opportunity strikes, I act. I either act on my self-motivation and desire, or someone prompts me to act. "Tell us a story, Tal!". Sometimes it happens; most times, it is spontaneous that something funny or interesting pops into my head, and I relate it or act it out.

If other people wanted to do it, they will start it whenever they are in the mood and are motivated/prompted enough to do so. Some people, it doesn't take much motivation or prompting. Other people, you can't coax them out of their hermit crab shell, but one day, they jump right in the middle, grab the ball, and relate/start something awesome out of the blue.



It is justified if they've been given ample opportunity to not stay quiet, and continually decline it.

Test.. the forums borking today?

Test test

(continued.. forum acting strange)



What else does it HAVE to describe in that context? It COULD literally BE anything.



I never SAID that you did exactly the same as myself. I have NO CLUE what *YOU* personally did, as I wasn't present to witness it. You keep saying you tried the things I suggested that I have done in the past, and got different results. I am dubious on that point (that you tried the things I suggested), I must admit, but I have to take your word for it, for argument's sake.



Again, I don't know what you did. I know what you CLAIM you did, at least insofar as you are willing to relate here in detail.

OF COURSE it says nothing about how much you might like doing the "right ones"; it doesn't even say that you WOULD like doing them in the first place. I am simply telling you that it is possible, and that, if you CAN find enjoyment in it, you WILL find enjoyment in it, if you bother to really try. The problem is I don't know if you even CAN do so. I admitted that not everyone CAN, but it certainly isn't for a lack of things out there to try and discover such.



Am I sure I didn't push a single button to find the Isle and get involved in it? Yes, because such a button DOESN'T EXIST.

I've already told you what I did. How many times do I have to repeat it? I EXPLORED. I RESEARCHED. I TALKED WITH PEOPLE. Not just a couple words in a search engine, either (though that is the likely the absolute very beginning, amounting to less than 0.0001% of the effort). You do understand what exploring, researching, and talking with people means, aye?



I used the search engine, found a region, TPed in, went everywhere I could in it, looked at all the nooks and crannies, picked up any notecards / landmarks I could find, walked up to any people I found active, introduced myself, asked questions, took any and all information and landmarks I could get from them, listened/joined into any discussions going on that interested me, did some more searches in the search engine, refining my parameters, TPed to another region, Lather, Rinse, Repeat. I didn't do it a set number of times, I did it until I succeeded in finding that for which I was searching.



Umm... keep trying?

The Isle has been around for nearly 4 years. Some of the Elven sims even longer. RARELY is it ever "empty" (humans have to sleep sometime, ya know). If someone finds it empty NOW, it doesn't mean it will be empty in an hour, or 12 hours, or a day, or on the weekend. It most definitely won't be empty for the EVENTS WHICH HAVE POSTED ADVERTS. Most people who buy avs at the Isle find community members present to ask questions, help, and interaction. The same is likely true with Grendel's, FurNation, Luskwood, Lost Furest, the Elven lands, and countless others.



Same thing.



Yeah, sure! If we had such a huge influx of people, all BUYING AVATARS AND SPENDING MONEY IN OUR REGIONS, sure! We'd balloon to a size commensurate to accommodate however many people wanted to be involved.

Why would that shock anyone?



Actually, no. Chaos theory relates to the behavior of *certain* dynamic systems which are highly sensitive to initial conditions. It does not map well to explaining human behavior because most people's behavior is not "highly sensitive" to "initial conditions". In other words, we're quite tolerant of even wide variances in our experiences most of the time.

As a result, we can predict responses to stimuli to a much greater degree than can be explained by simple randomness, or even by chaos theory. That's what psychologists get paid for, and why people can rip off other people easily with a common scam that "everyone should know", like the shell game.



Actually, it is quite uncommon for us.

How come people who are willing to pay to use SL always look down upon those who refuse to pay? I have payment info on file, but no I will never spend a penny in a client that crashes 54 times a day, about a million unfixed bugs, and has random downtimes. This is more or less a super-realistic MMORPG, have you ever heard of a -successful- MMORPG that limited non-paying players so much that they have limited playing hours, and can't trade equipment? No I don't think so.
Content creators face the risk of copyright infringement, that's the reality of an online platform, deal with it. Do you see laws being passed in real life about limiting people from visiting stores just because there's a threat of copyright infringement of some product??
Lol just the other day I met this content creator who put no copy and no mod restrictions on a sphere slapped with a texture, because she's afraid "someone might copy her design". Yes I'm sure she invented the concept of "spherical objects".