Limiting theft by limiting creation

When I think of people needing to verify.....I think of things like some merchants doing bizarre things on Xstreet....and I think of the repeated stories on here, of how someone got ripped off, and it boils down to "buyer beware".....as a merchant I relate that to Ebay, since I have experience there....and I wonder how Ebay would have survived with anonymous merchants. The marketplace is growing here. The wild west option can't function effectively endlessly....if it were even functioning now....other issues going on, besides content theft.

There's been mention of it in this very thread.

When I think of people needing to verify.....I think of things like some merchants doing bizarre things on Xstreet....and I think of the repeated stories on here, of how someone got ripped off, and it boils down to "buyer beware".....as a merchant I relate that to Ebay, since I have experience there....and I wonder how Ebay would have survived with anonymous merchants. The marketplace is growing here. The wild west option can't function effectively endlessly....if it were even functioning now....other issues going on, besides content theft.

It sort of sounds like you think that I am talking about "profits?" ...bottom line?....no, not the case.... it effects you, and whether or not someone has an enjoyable experience shopping, setting up a home, buying a tux to go dancing, supporting live music events with profits from a store, the simple act of logging in next week and contributing to the population, being nice to people inworld because you're happy, and not pissed off about getting ripped by a merchant.....stuff like that.....and in that case, I totally agree with you, that there won't be any customers left....and there won't be any people left to have fun with.

It's not always about the store - most of us selling stuff have a ton of fun here, outside the store. That's what kept us coming in the first few months.....most did not just stop that fun when they started selling product. You may not see us out and about....but we're there....Alts. haha NPIOF alts at that!

I use the term "we"....that doesn't mean everyone, of course.

I get bent about separating content creators or merchants from people doing other things....when there is a discussion on here. I don't consider myself a creator....I slap textures someone else made, onto a shape that LL supplied. But even those that are making amazing creations....I bet they appreciate SL for the same reasons that you and I do....and a lot of those reasons have nothing to do with bottom line profits. It takes a HUGE amount of effort to make those, with such little numbers being involved. They would HAVE to have something else in SL keeping them going every day, to even get to that point. We are not different people at all. Our concerns do not come from entirely different angles. Generally.

There are solutions, but they don't lie in creating a class hierarchy where only certain people can do certain things.

If this is the case why hasn't this accounts name been thrashed around in IM or amounst groups inworld, have people given up,

I think we're talking about the same things, then. I just recently saw a disturbing trend from people labelling themselves as content creators, talking about limiting users' freedoms because of copybotting. I want to show the other side of the coin as well. the more people clamp down, the fewer customers they will have. This thread is about limiting creation rights for some classes of avatars. There's one about banning all non-verifieds. There's one about shopkeepers making no-rez (!!) objects. All this points to a very disturbing trend, and if no-one speaks out against it, it may be taken as resident consensus. So I am speaking out against it.

The majority of the consumer popularion aren't going to be against copybotters any more they are against pirated Music and DVD's, they just expect everyone to lower their prices for their hours of work into new products.

And the answer is overly aggressive DRM (Like DVDs/BluRay/WMA)? Or perhaps technological (Region coding, HDCP). Or perhaps limited use (3 installs on Spore). Because all these things worked so well in other industries.

There will always be piracy. You cannot have a 0 piracy rate, no matter what you do. What you can do is make the product unpalatable for your customers, then blame the resulting drop in sales on piracy.

Cassette tapes was the end of the recording industry. VCR's was the end of the motion picture industry and the TV industry at the same time. PVR's brought about the end of TV broadcasts as we know it. Digital piracy is the next step here. An industry can either adapt to it, or they will die out. This is why the MPAA and the RIAA is in so much trouble, PR-wise.

Apple's Itunes makes money, even though there are pirates about. Stardock Systems decided not to use DRM, and they are still with us. Some studios have started to stream stuff off for free now. There is a market there, but it is a different world, and the creators have to adapt to it.

Personally I disagree with copybotting. But is it worth spending all that time and effort on fighting something that's eventually inevitable? Any texture that's displayed on my screen exists on my PC somewhere. Every animation is in my cache. Every prim you created is described here. If any of that was missing, I would not be able to render it on my screen, so I cannot see your creation. And if it's on my PC, I can get hold of it, re-create it, modify it. PC's were made to do two things, calculations and copying of data. And they do both exceedingly well.

Now you want to limit what other avatars can do, to fight your battle for you. You make the world less enjoyable for all of us. But will this really cut down on piracy to any significant extent? Will this cause a copybot-free world? Or just one where certain people are barred from certain things because some content creators want it that way?

And won't some of the same content creators use this to keep potential future competition out of the world? After all, if you're the only maker of a category of objects, then you have a vested interest in making sure no-one else can create the same things.

And won't some of the same content creators use this to keep potential future competition out of the world? After all, if you're the only maker of a category of objects, then you have a vested interest in making sure no-one else can create the same things.

I don't think cassette's, VCR's and RW-DVD's have killed the music and motion picture industries at all, There is huge profits being made in susch industries despite piracy the systems are designed to stop general users from copying their product easily, hardcore theives will always get around them.
Restricting unverified from selling content is no worse than E-Bay not allowing unverified sellers to sell pirated DVD's

:0 i didn't use copybot or anything like that to make my works. neither has any other legitimate artist i know of. and no one -could- use it 'legitimately' to copy my or other's works to resell in any sort of legitimate manner, or even just for 'competitive spirit'.

nothing is stopping legitimate competition except for their own skills, creativity and 'gumption' to make something themselves from scratch. anyone who stoops themselves to the level of 'needing to use copybot' or other tools like it to 'make a business for themselves', -has- no business.

sorry, just had to point out that that particular little argument is long gone, dead and buried...

I would never refuse to treat someone the way they want to be treated, if their avatar didn't reflect it. They would have to communicate such for me to know beforehand, of course. That's another great benefit to wearing the avatar, in my mind.

If a wingbrother decided to wear a human form most of the time, and I met him in that form, I may not recognize his bearing as a wingbrother, but if he asserted it in some other way, I would show him the consideration of respecting it as if he had worn the representative avatar.

Convincing water to flow downhill takes more power. I'm not Robin Williams in a ferret suit.

If you want draconic hijinks, why aren't you wearing a dragon avatar, so I can hide under your wing when that crazy robot comes after me for nipping his power cord? Hell, it's not even been a month since I was last hiding under a dragon's wing!

I'm not taking the lead, and they're not my followers.

I did not say to use copybotting. But in RL patent and copyright law has been used to lock out competitors. In SL traffic has been gamed for a long time, amongst other things. Landowners have been forced to sell at low prices or buy at extortionate prices by unscrupulous people (16m^2 parcels). Are you 100% sure the proposed anti-copybot-rules won't be abused in a similar way?

Every single thing in that interaction you've described revolves around you. That's not "draconic hijinks", that's _you_ using the dragon avatar as a prop in _your_ scene.

If having a vivid in that SL requires you to be the centre of attention of a group of people,

2) I don't support the limiting of rights in SL

These two are not incompatible. And the answer is not in a technological solution either. Not in this case, where all the data is on the person that want to rip it's PC.

Or maybe you just have no bloody idea .........

Time for ferret pics.

Hey, the scene started when the robot decided to scan me for illicit nanotech. It's robot hijinks, not ferret hijinks. There's no "leader" for this kind of thing, the ball belongs to whoever feels like grabbing it.

Right, but at the same time, if the scene just becomes a fight for the ball then nobody has any fun.

And statistically, some people will never get it..

It really sucks when your computer blows up when you're playing SL too, but I don't blame Linden Lab for that.

Ok. So from the point of a user who has the choice of spending real money on a dragon avatar, or just saying "I'm a dragon".. which is going to be the better deal for them?

I'm not assigning blame. I'm answering the question "why are people prepared to spend lots of time on SL, but not invest any real money?"

As for your later question, nobody's ever really tried to explain "freeform role-play" to me.

I'm not assigning blame. I'm answering the question "why are people prepared to spend lots of time on SL, but not invest any real money?" And my answer is, "because all the avatar/home things they might buy actually making a difference depends on too many unreliable social factors". It might be hard to do anything about that, but that doesn't stop it potentially being the answer.

As for your later question, nobody's ever really tried to explain "freeform role-play" to me.

Well, if you're hanging out with a group of people who you're friends with and talking about your RL.. then does the appearance of your avatar really matter to them?

I thought the question was:

Did I miss a memo on question substitution? >.>

1. Because there's all kinds of really great freebies and someone with a little bit of imagination and creative skill doesn't HAVE to buy anything.
2. A hell of a lot of people DO spend real money.
3. Who asked that question anyway? I certainly didn't.

That was no revolving door, that was my mother!