A blow to age verification?

Agelock can still be lied to and bypassed by someone with the will and inclination to do so... just as easily as any other age verification system.

I totally agree and underage people will still lie and cheat and use false ID to get alcohol, smoke, get access to SL etc. etc. while parents don't do a proper job with their offspring.

The whole thinking for us and using Agelock was that as we run a Mature parcel and frankly if we used LL Beta verification system a lot of genuine adults would miss out on our plot and the fun to be had there as the overall the LL system sucks for a lot of people at this time

So while Agelock is not foolproof, but then neither is the LL verification either, when little Johnny borrows Dads SSN or driving licence number while dad was not looking at his son on the PC, Agelock serves the following purpose for us and i quote from the Agelock website:

"The ONLY real life information this system requires is the resident’s real life date of birth. More information than that is never needed, as the more important statement is the declaration that the resident is entering the adult area with full awareness and releasing land holders and/or content creators from any liability.

If it is discovered at a later date that a resident has lied about his/her age to bypass the system, it does not matter because it has been established that he/she was properly warned and given every opportunity to leave. It basically negates any “innocent victim” argument."

Peace

No, not as easily as any other system, take the Lindens "tick the box if you are over 18" system for example.
Nothing is 100% uncrackable but 70% is a heap better than 1%.

Actually, it doesn't matter if the system is easily beaten. All a company has to prove is that it has taken "due precaution." This way, if they are sued, they can prove that they took preventative measures, which the offending offspring circumvented of their own accord. It could even be implied that the parent consented to the circumvention if their own documentation/identification were used.

*shrugs* So, not it doesn't have to be fool-proof, just a stumbling block for the less determined.

Yes well I suspect that will come back to RL too, like if someone puts a sign on a machine saying do not put fingers in while moving, they think they are legally safe, they could put a guard on it which someone umay unbolt to hurt themselves but they have made a real effort to stop injury, rather than just sign waving.
"Tick this box if over 18" is about as effective as a a "house is locked" sign tp prevent theft on the front of your unlocked house.

For the record, I verified through the system provided.

Tegg, I won't argue on the fact that the little check can't seriously be counted as "due precaution," but the law seems satisfied with that at this time. I'd like to see a bigger stumbling block myself, one that at least requires the offspring to jump through some flaming hoops to get to their goal.

Comparing a home being illegally entered and a minor on the grid... I believe that even if the house wasn't locked up, anyone on the property without consent of the owner is considered trespassing by law. One could assume using that logic, that anyone not at least 18 years of age and is on the grid is trespassing...

Frankly, unless there is more negative coverage concerning this issue, LL will do nothing more than what is absolutely required to CYA in a court.

The thing is there is few companies are willing to press charges against the innocent little kids that commit fraud on the verification processes

Now if little billy suddenly found himself answering to a sheriff about committing fraud by using false information to bypass the age verification systems... well his parents might just have incentive to parent.

Figure first time being a warning, second time answering to the judge.

After all they put adults in a position to be worried about facing a judge, only fair they face the same threat for what is in reality a crime as well.

The agelock and other cyoa things don't do a lot really, other than fill the legal mandated rules.

Kids have gained access to adult sites through using false info... and they have been sued (many times successfully till appeal...)

But the kids never faced charges for identity theft, fraud, or other crimes committed to gain the access.

Well in most cases the Identity theft a kid would do is against their parents ..

So theres not going to be a lot of pressing charges going on.

true, but LL and others can still file fraud charges.

If the parent comes back and claims they gave the child permission to use the data and get on the adult grid... then it is the parent's that get in hot water for contributing to the delinquency of a minor amongst other issues

Nah they will pull the ...

"I didn't know, but no I cant press charges against my own kid."

Nearly all judges will just let that slide unless there is some sort of crime other than sneaking onto a computer game and playing with the prim bewbies of some Co-ed from San Paulo.

It'll be LL filing fraud charges and such. Not the parents.

And since lindens can be transferred into real money, there are some laws you wouldn't consider that can apply.

Plus the innocent parents are going to be asked (if LL has decent lawyers) why they just let a child have the information to gain access to an age restricted service? Would they buy the kids beer because they are underage?

I think LL will let them go with a stern warning letter.

I certainly haven't ever heard of them pressing these charges before - surely this has come up already.

I just don't think LL will press charges unless the parents seem like they will be suing LL. Or if LL is going to get into some kind of trouble.

Most LL related crimes just result in account seizure and LL keeping the L$.

Well considering that an underage innocent can suddenly spring a blackmail attempt (or a legit user pretending to be underage) by threatening to go to the cops and lie about things.

LL and others need to start doing more than slapping wrists and give them a boot to the head instead.

I will believe it when I see it happen.

You hear a lot of stories about when all this will come down but the internet's been chugging along for years..

And other than the FBI stinging Pedophiles .. you just don't see a lot of what you are describing.

I agree - the whole thing is pretty tenuous. What, a pedophile trolls adult SL looking for minors posing as adults? Right The kid is ready to spring a trap that begins with him or her falsifying their log on characteristics? Kind of weak as traps go. The adult parents sue LL stemming from actions starting with their kid lying and no sign that LL induces the kids to that behavior? Uh-huh - I think that ends with them paying the damages to, uh, them, for what their kid did. I kind of miss that one too. LL sues who exactly for what exactly to get damages of what exactly?

The first real charge is if the kid tries this blackmail thing and finds a really weak adult that can be buffaloed by a kid. I'll follow the story if it ever comes about. Not holding my breath.

It's more someone going to the adult areas, and then having adult rp or activity with someone who turns out to be underage.

They are facing child molestation charges and the like...

Where junior is in no danger of criminal charges unless they do try to extort money

Right now LL does not file any criminal charges for the digital crimes committed.

I do know I read of one site that did file and won the case when the parents tried to sue them for little billy seeing pictures of nude girls online. The kid used false information in setting up the account, and got burned on fraud charges.

Actually, in many places it's not trespassing unless the person has first been given notice that they're not permitted there. Where I live, people who don't want hunters on their property have to post signs along their entire property line (every 100 feet, I believe). Then you get into intent. As I read the Massachusetts law, it's illegal to enter a house with intent to commit a felony or misdemeanor, but merely entering an unlocked house during daylight hours, with no malicious intent, isn't illegal. (The usual IANAL disclaimer applies.)

Not that it really matters. There are different laws relating to unauthorized use of a computer system, and fraud in obtaining such authorization. There's also a concept known as "trespass to chattel"; the EFF article at http://ilt.eff.org/index.php/Trespass_to_Chattels is worth reading.

The problem that LL faces, as compared to the cases mentioned in that article, is showing damages. Without that, they can't be compensated for their effort. Plus, how do you convince a local district attorney to prosecute a case for unauthorized access if all you have is a kid hanging out with adults in SL, with no sex or other questionable activities?

We've gone over this so many times.

It's not molestation without physical contact. Period. This is why the sting operations we read about involve setting up meetings, and arresting the adult when he shows up. They also involve someone posing as underage, so that it's clear the adult believes it's an underage kid.

It could be furnishing pornography to a minor, or other crimes along the lines of corrupting the morals - if the adult had reason to believe the other was a minor. As far as I know, no one has ever presented any sort of evidence in these forums that there's any crime involved if the adult had no reason to suspect the other participant of being underage. (And please don't confuse this with the underage avatar issue - that's a different story.)

In SL i have an adult AV and in here I do not have responsibilities or expectations and i can wonder what each day in SL will bring. Having a child AV does not take the adult mind away does it?

As for RL age play one would have to wonder why there also and yes you can see they are an adult but would have to look deeper as to why they want to be treated like a child.

As for your comment about non sexual age play my point is if you want toplay a child fine but no need to be in sexual areas.

I would like to see SL have it that if you are a not age verified then you cant get into the adult areas or maybe they set up sims where you cant leave. This happened in another chat i was in you had 10 days to go anywhere after that you were limited to one place by then you should know if you wanted to be a member or not. In here it could be you verify or you stay in PG

You're assuming the story ever comes to light, many people faced with the descision of forking out say $50,000L to a 14yo who they may have even admited RL details to, or calling their bluff, may well just payup.
Oh sure you can probably get it thrown out of court easy enough after you spent money on lawyers etc........ but that's after your names been dragged through the mud and you are now labeled as a possible pedophile by everyone whether it sticks or not. You may even make one of the front few pages in the local paper.

So this secretly happens all the time and no one ever hears?

I doubt that scenario. First of all, while I and my wife do well enough, we and our insurance companies (personal and professional) are not going to just roll over and pay $ 50,000. Second, this would have to pass a minimum smell test before most prosecutors would touch it and it doesn't - not even for an issue chaser like Janet Reno. I work fairly close to lawyers and such and the consensus is that this would be easier and shorter than a middling drunk driving charge going to dismissal. And read your papers to see how quickly that happens...

So the insurance company (in our case) would pay the couple of grand for a lawyer to get the whole thing dismissed and would wait to sue anyone that chose to print unsubstantiated charges in the paper. Really. Innocent people may get dragged through the mud, but not from this.

I've heard of 2 people being threatened but never heard of anyone who paid up yet, but I guess would you tell everyone if you did?

Wow? You have an insurance policy covering online cybering mishaps up to $US50k?
I said $50,000 Lindens not $US too. A 14yo is probaby smart enough to only try for a few hundred bucks US.

I think there would be news stories.

And some people would speak out about it.

Something.

You don't live in the US, though, right?

So maybe its different in other countries.

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Here in the US the way they do it is Lure people to a RL meeting with a make-believe underage person. Hence the joke about all the little girls on the internet being the FBI.