A blow to age verification?

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/AheadoftheCurve/story?id=5428228&page=1



So... will this affect the age verification plans?

Mari

I kinda doubt it...there's that whole global thing to consider. But it's not like they're charging right ahead with it anyway. *shrug*

there's a difference between congress passing an act forcing people to comply.

Versus a company writing rules for it's users in hopes of stopping a bit of bad press.

Well said Scott.

I don't think it will affect age verification either, because the implementation of age verification is in the best interests of LL to protect minor from being subjected to mature content.

Plus the biggest hit to it is enforceability.


There are plenty of sites that are not based in the US so the laws don't apply to them.

The best tool to keep kids from inappropriate material is parenting.

Teach them the limits, and do your best to watch over them. (In other words if junior has a computer in his room, he doesn't have net access in there. Or put the computer in a location you can monitor it easily.... with passwords)

It's like the game law NYC just passed... it's not going to do a damn thing to prevent anything. The games are already rated, and most new consoles already have the parental control systems in them... But both require the parents to actually parent..

True but I think most of LL's actions on this front are driven by perceived politics. IMO there's a limit on how much companies should be forced to do to protect people (minors in this case) from doing things they're determined to do.

Before anybody brings them up..
- this thread has NOTHING to do with child-like avatars - this is only about RL age
- credit card companies have said that cards CAN NOT be used to age-verify

edit: nothing to do with child-like avatars except that one started this thread. That's it, though. Really.

It's this.

LL has always wanted SL to be 18+. The idea of age verification simply makes it easier for LL to back up their claim that the grid is 18+ (or the content that is 18+ on the grid is restricted to people who have gone through some kind of imperfect yet defensible process to lessen the risk to LL that they are not 18+).

LL were flirting/cybering with Age Verification simply to mitigate the risks/costs of being sued.
They were not doing so because of any US legal requirement.

That being so, nothing has changed.

Hopefully, the non-implementation of the thing to date might imply that even their lawyers recognised that it was a fig-leaf that would not afford sufficient cost/benefit to justify it.

Spoilsport.

Don't worry, Ann - somebody will bring it up anyway..

I'm glad you brought that up

IDV CAN NOT be used to age-verify.
All a kid has to do is anonymously submit the details of an adult, and they're in.
It's so easy for them.

There are two distinct types of "age-verification"
1) The age of the person that the anonymously-submitted details refer to is of age
2) The age of the person submitting the details is 18+

I'm a kid avatar and I refuse to verify with the current system. My credit card is totally enough information! So there!

*Stops to bite Ann's tail while still running way from Bree with that towel.* \(^_^)/

Amazing ppl don't figure out there are other ways all this could be done and still protect privacy.

Exactly, but there's an extra level of someone carrying the can in IDV. There's no way passport and driving licence agencies are going to say that the number on those documents in any way identifies the person submitting the information.

The reason that "credit card companies have said that cards CAN NOT be used to age-verify" is not to do with a credit card account being any indication of age.
The reason is that it is not a cast iron indication of age, and even if it were, there is NO WAY that they want to carry the can for anybody else. It's not in their business model.

Yes it's called good parenting and taking responsibility for your actions.

There is no way to kid proof the internet or any service on said internet.

Best thing to do is educate your kids on right and wrong (including not committing fraud or identity theft to get past a service's age verification system), and educating yourself on how to prevent your children from getting into places they shouldn't online.

Well I can steal a wallet and type in someone else's information and verify using an id card...

I can get a forged letter of verification, with fake certifications (the actually have places that sell fake notary stamps)

There is really no way to verify the users age or that they are the ones using the data.

This doen't change the legal landscape. It's the same legal decision that reflects the law of the U.S. for 10+ years.

Keep in mind that this is a case about whether the federal government may enact a particular kind of law. It is not a decision that would affect civil liability between private litigants. I'd guess that civil, rather than criminal, liability has been Linden Lab's concern with age verification all along.

Edit: Actually, the case you quoted really reflects the law of the U.S. for at least 19 years. It's essentially the same case as the dial-a-porn case (Sable v. FCC) decided in 1989:

"The federal parties nevertheless argue that the total ban on indecent commercial telephone communications is justified because nothing less could prevent children from gaining access to such messages. We find the argument quite unpersuasive. The FCC, after lengthy proceedings, determined that its credit card, access code, and scrambling rules were a satisfactory solution to the problem of keeping indecent dial-a-porn messages out of the reach of minors." http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=492&invol=115

Well I can steal your car keys or use a coathanger to open your car door, doesn't mean we should forgo locks on cars for proper parenting teaching people not to steal cars.

We have age verfication that is a "tick this box if you are over 18", we could have written on car door handles "only open/use this vehicle with the owners permission"

Proper parenting is necessary but won't cover everything, neither will Age Verfication, they work together, so to dump either system in favour of the other is asking for failure.

Shrug.

I'm verified. Meh.

So someone MIGHT find out I am being an online perv. Mainly, the shock value in that would be "How do you find time, and you're a lot tamer online than off".

Meh.

***edit

More to the point children can and do open online gambling accounts using their parent's details. These pass a range of sophisticated checks. They also pass if we ask for ID and that is also obtained from the adult without their consent or knowledge.

So, despite every precaution, despite total compliance with Data Protection and with the Gaming Act, kids can and do get online to gamble. The point is, that every REASONABLE step has been taken to prevent the possibility. There are other measures in place but the bottom line is personal accountability on the part of the adult in the household where the child has been given the freedom to access at will.

Same principle applies in SL.

Besides, underaged kids are less likely to be doing SAP as kids - they'll be those "hot girls" out there at Neva Naughty - or more likely shooting the place up.

Food for thought about those hawt girls whose avatars seem that little bit amateur ...

So what age verification system is available that can not be gamed?

The click the check box is enough to cover the company legally, because there is no real identity verification online.

Now if the companies that are at risk due to the innocent little children started doing what they could to file charges (and allowing for plea bargaining for the innocent little angels down from felony charges to misdemeanors.. or simply community service and drop it [on the cavet the parents start taking a bigger role in parenting])

So there are no locks for age verification or identity verification.

All of it is data, and data can be faked.

Think of it this way:

The legal USA drinking age is 21.

Yet people under 21 can access alcohol. Fake ID, Looking older than they are, friends who buy it for them, sneaking it from Mom & Dad's liquor cabinet....

There are many ways to do it.

Same with Age.

Glad you clarified that. Maybe a peaceful conversation for a change.

Well, that statement doesn't help much. What would be your ideas? I have thought about it and I can't think of anything that could not be easily circumvented.