Ok well I like this part

If they'd stuck to that, I'd be content, but they've entered the goods marketplace, and are taking a profit from sales of goods. They are competing for feet through doors now, at the expense of a great many SL traders.

The questions were not looking for an answer from you or anyone. They were simply raising ideas.

However....

I wander around quite a lot. I would say that store builds are quite the minority.
I don't really see that changing - except for the big stores that were built with unrealistic big ideas.

SL is not a world primarily of or for merchants.
SL is a world where a large number of creatives can take advantage of micropayments to subsidise their involvements, or even profit.

It could be that there is far more benefit for LL in having a large number have fun as minor/hobby merchants merchants than in having a small number of major merchants.
The Xstreet move certainly helps that option.

Who's this "we", paleface??

They are competing with your marketing techniques. Not your goods. They have always been in the goods marketplace. You pay tier to sell goods inworld. You use their (fake) currency directly, and have to pay a fee to convert it to USD (even if you cashed out on xstreetsl, it eventually became profit for LL). You paid for ads. Offering a marketing service isn't any different.

what is the percentage anyways on xstreet?
i mean to buy a 1,000 linden item what percent would xstreet get anyways?10% or something like that ?not that it really matters that much cause it can't be that bad with so many doing it already..

because really looking at this hard from a customer point of view my first reaction of xstreet being on the search would get a good reaction out of me..

i mean you lose a lot of the crud you get with a search .no sex clubs or camping sites gaming keywords for items you may be looking for..

i guess i m swaying more twords it ..i intended on using xstreet no matter what..
i jumped to fast into the future of bad affects of it and i should have sat back and read more on this before reacting..sorry for that everyone..

hey... I have to say... I have seen a big increase in my sales on Xstreet since the merge or whatever... So /me claps

so far so good

Which "we" would that be? Do you mean "us"? If you do, it's us [traders].

They are competing for feet in the door. When they succeed they get a cut of the sales, and the seller normally gets less for the goods. That's competing in the marketplace.

No no no. They have never been in the goods marketplace before. We don;t pay tier to sell our goods inworld at all. We pay tier to use the land, whatever it is used for. It has nothing to do with goods.

ok i just have to ask this because i am trying to see if i am missing your point or not..

is it because LL owns xstreet that you feel they should not get fee's from us to use xstreet?

this is how i am hearing it and i am curious if this is what you mean..

Same feet, different doors.
That's what pisses you off.
You're used to being ranked high in search. You game search.
Once a place gets consistently high rank in search, it tends to be self-perpetuating. People try to get high ranking in Search for a simple reason. Page one gets more visitors. It's only human.

Now with Xstreet in the spotlight, more people will get a chance to be seen. It's easier and faster to see a greater range and in more detail.
That chance to be seen, where before they had little, is worth a small percentage.
The sooner Xstreet gets an inworld search tab the better.

I rezz a finger for search-gamers to sit on.

Yes. The only objection I have is that LL takes a cut of sales that are done there. It was fine when is was a third party, because the third party couldn't promote it in the most prime places on the secondlife website. But now LL is doing exactly that. If they didn't take a cut, it would be great. But they do take a cut and so they competitng against traders for feet in the door. If LL gets the feet, LL often/usually gets a cut of the sales and the trader usually gets less for the goods. That's the only problem I have - the commission now that LL owns it.

Can't you discuss normally, Sling? If you were to read the posts without your incredible bias, you'd be able to follow the discussion. I don't think you're doing yourself any favours by continually trying to change the topic to be about me.

That sounds about right. They aren't selling their own goods. They are helping you sell yours. Well, not *you*, apparently, but ...

Granted, it could well be an offer you can't refuse...



The land you rent from LL used for your shop so you can sell goods inworld is indeed LL effectively getting their cut of your sales. If you didn't rent the land, you couldn't sell your goods.

Granted, it's an offer you can't refuse...

They are competing for feet in the door, so that sales will be made in their place. They are in the products marketplace now. Admit it or deny it, but don't beat about the bush.

You could equally well say that LL takes a cut of a trader's RL earnings when the trader who doesn't sell much has to top up the tier for the land from RL earnings. The tier that land-based traders pay to LL has nothing whatsoever to do with the sale of goods as far as LL is concerned. LL doesn't care if the place sells a lot or a little - all they get is tier for land. It has nothing to do withs goods or sales. LL does not take a cut of sales from land-based traders. LL is not in the products marketplace in those cases.

i have to admit when i first thought about it i was kind of confused with LL owning it..
more so with in world and thinking there was a double dipping happening..
but really i was not the sharpest knife in the butchers block this morning lol

really all they have done is bought a site that offers us to sell our items online out of game..we can use usd or lindens..

even if it did come in world or stays where it is..it really is just another extension of LL..

i wouldn't expect to get a deal or a break if they bought nissan out or bought the internet provider i use to connect to the internet..

just like us ..we are not limited to being just one type of business.. i can build stores or sell things out of them..

they invested into a business and deserve to make money on that business..

it is our option to use them or not..they are not twisting our arm to use it..
and they are not the only ones out there..i am sure we could set up our own sites to sell our things too..

i don't know..i just don't see anything wrong with it..i don't know where my head was at this morning though..overdosed on caffine and lack of sleep probably lol

It's NOT about you. You just happen to be one of the search-gamers.
The impact of Xstreet on search-gamers is absolutely on topic.

Virtual feet in a virtual door.



In your case though, they are taking a cut of your sales. Especially since you've said you'll quit SL when your store stops being profitable. You've found examples where tier isn't a cut of sales of goods, but that doesn't mean that tier isn't a cut of sales for profitable stores.

Really, we do seem to agree - we just choose to spin it differently.

Then kindly refer to gamers rather than to me personally, and stop trying to tell me my reasons for disliking what's happened. Judging by your posts, you don't know them.

i am seeing where the confusion is actually..
you can't look at LL's land business as connected in this at all which is where you are seeing this as unfair..
they are not getting a cut of your goods from tier..they are getting tier for the land you are using..just like they are getting it fro me for my house..
i don't get a kick back because i am not selling goods from there..

anyone owning land has to pay the same tier for the same amount to LL
no matter if they have a store or a house or a water slide on it..you really cannot look at LL as getting a cut of your goods in that sense..you choose what to pay your tier with and if it is from goods you sell in sl then you are using that..me i pay for my land out of my RL bank account and am not profiting from my land at all..

but we both have to pay those fee's to the LL land..

Well, we had Nina, for instance, in another thread recently saying that she felt forced to use traffic bots in order to get search visibility. She said that it had a noticable impact on sales.
The message from the pro-search-gaming side in all the thrteads was that it was the thing to do if one didn't want to languish unknown and poor in the nether regions of the listings and nyah-nyah if one didn't choose to do it.

So gaming search was 'an offer that could not be refused'.

Now there's a new game in town

Admit or deny that LL is now in the products marketplace for profit.

No they are not taking a cut of my sales. I pay them money. Where the money comes from is of no interest to LL. It may come form RL or not, but it is not a cut of sales. If you prefer, we can use the word "commission" or "percentage" instead of "cut". Maybe then we'll say the same things

Oh, I agree they are. But they aren't selling their own low prim furniture, so I don't see a conflict of interest.





OK, then sell your goods in-world without paying LL tier. When they're the only game in town to facilitate your in-world sales, it really is them taking a cut. It's fixed, and you're choosing the size yourself, but there it is.

I tend to agree with much of this. LL has probably considered the bot/camping aspect as a problem, and has found an ingenious way to both get rid of them, and make money in the process. Good for them, I say.

Prior to this, anybody who didn't use bots/camping chairs (and were serious about making money) were only hurting themselves.

I guess I don't agree with your angle of it being unfair gaming, however. Everyone could do it equally (just like everyone can use xstreetsl equally going forward). And you were kinda shooting yourself in the foot if you didn't.

The conflict, as I see it, is that LL now promotes its own selling area in the most prime spot on the website. There isn't a better place for it, and it's big. Traders cannot even compete by advertising on the website. Whether it is intenional or not, they are guiding people to pay for goods at their own place so that they can take a profit from it, and the seller can get less for it. Their sales area competes with inworld sales areas. I see that, not so much as a conflict of interest, but as competing with sellers for profit.

As for the low prim furniture. This whole thing is absolutely no skin off my nose - no conflict for me - because I am not, and never have been, interested in using XSSL to sell stuff on.

We'll have to disagree on that. LL does not take a cut of sales. They take a fixed fee for the land, regardless of where the money comes from, and regardless of what's done on the land. We'll disagree on it.

they would be getting a different amount every month if it were a cut of my sales..
if you rent a store you are going to have rent..it's an expense..that bill with be the same everytime..
i could start a church up in the store if i wanted to..still gonna be the same exact bill every month..
it's no different than me going to one of these islands and renting from a sim owner..my money is going to the sim owner..their money is going to LL..

what you are saying is this..if your internet connection bought Xstreet you would expect to have xstreet service free because you are using their internet service already and it is online and xstreet is on the internet..