Ok well I like this part

This development is clearly a bad one for people having in-world stores, and up to now did choose not to use XStreetSL or OnRez. Of course they can join this "new" form of selling stuff in SL, which does take tons of work. But it means that apart from their in-world costs they get extra costs: the cut from their sales. So they earn less, for more hours of work.

If LL indeed markets XStreetSL from within the client (which remains to be seen) it is an unfair competition, because it leaves store owners not much choice. They are indeed competing with their own customer base over more money. Their good right, but bad for content creators.

What strikes me as funny is that Sling does take it (as usual) towards search gaming, indeed as Phil calls it, her personal crusade.
Why funny? Because if any search is gamed, it is the one on XStreetSL. Read the forums there and you know what I am talking about. Influenced by purchases by as many alts as they can, giving negative ratings to competition, and more. Read the forums over there, if you do not want to take my word for it.

ya if they go in world with this ..bleh ..that is cutting anyones throat that uses xstreet and an in world shop..
LL is already making money on in world lindens anyways and now they are going to get another cut because of anything that sells using the in world search that leads to xstreet..

so if a customer goes to my shop and buys my item i get the full sale..but if they use xstreet from the in world search they have cut my in world sales for the same exact item to whatever the cut for xstreet is..
Xstreet was suposed to be an alternative or an extension to a business..not something that rides next to my shop in the in world search making me compete with myself..
there would be no advantage to having it in world unless i never set up shop in world..

Apparently it's incredibly easy to game the XSSL listings, and much more explicitly than any inworld search. I understand that it's widespread there. LL would need to do something about that if they have any ideas of using it in a search tab. But LL doesn't seem to care about that sort of thing anyway.

So LL is promoting the incredibly gamed system. That's something else for Sling to get her teeth into now that it's a part of SL/LL

So just price the items in Xstreet at a higher price, saying that it's cheaper to buy direct from your store!

Slightly in support of Phil, LL taking over XSSL isn't so much different than when Anshe had her L$10 items given priority on the XSSL home page, everyone saw that for what it was, I don't understand how, that now it is LL doing it instead it's kind of ok. But presently I really don't know if it will be a good thing or bad, having only a XSSL account (with only 17 items) and no in-world shop it doesn't effect me much. If I had a in-world shop I would probably be more worried.

i don't care what they do out of world..all systems like this are gamed..it's just the way it is..

but bringing it into the in world search..thats just wrong..

the only reason i could see it coming in world would be to replace the current business search for stores..why would i use xstreet in world if i have a shop in world already?

how would it expand my advertising in world?
i would be paying for my shop plus having my items have a tier on each sale in a sense if they used xstreet in the in world search..

so the items i am selling to pay the tier on my shop in world would be getting clipped by the same people that get my rent lol..if they are bought in world from xstreet.

it's early in the morning and maybe i am looking at this wrong.
what would be the advantages of it being in world? another spot on the search that gets a chunk?

i would have to lol
i mean if there is an advantage i will use it..i just see something that was another option moving next to adds in world now..
i don't care who owns it really because that is trivial..all i am concerned about is will it hurt or help i guess is what i am getting at..

Well of course it is not said that XStreetSL does get a place in the SL client, and I do not think the link on the front page does make that much of a difference. But it does make sense to look ahead, and anticipate.

As for me, I hope that the aim is to make Search All the only search in-world, and make XStreetSL the main out-world platform for shopping. In fact not much different then it is. Removing the entire rating system would do XStreetSL much good, integrating the two better would do both much good. Share the same funds for example, instead of making transfers through terminals. Shop and deliver to yourself when not in-world. Integrate sales logs. Much to do that would actually improve things, instead of make things worse.

oh having it on the web site i do think is a good idea..
i see nothing wrong with that..in fact i see it helping to find it..

myself i have always used it for things i could not find in world or to get lindens when i am maxed on my blue button in world lol

what would be kind of neat is if they did do a search in world and if you had a premium account fee's or less fee's were applied..
that would make a premium account a bit more attractive..

i wasn't sure if they were moving in world or not ..i guess i should have read back more in the thread..i am really getting scared of the rumors that have been coming true so far and it can make you gun shy and in the ready state lol

Chung getting priority for her own L$10 stuff is not at all like LL giving priority to a system that helps residents to sell.

The web-based method is far better for the buyer than the current in-world Search.

With in-world Search, we are presented with a list of potential places.
We have to TP to as many as we can find the time to before fatigue sets in.
We brave the TP issues.
We wait for the rezz
We have to track down the particular item.

With Xstreet, we start with a list, but it's a more informative list.
For any item. we can read extensive text and view multiple images.
We can move back and forth through the screens repidly in order to compare and make a decision.
When we think we have a winner or a shortlist, we can TP via SLURL direct to a store(s).
Or, we can buy direct.
Personally, I like to visit the store and buy there. I know that others do the same.


In-world Search is heavily weighted in favour of the top-ranked merchants. This is because TP/Rezz fatique sets in.
Xstreet allows us to see more possibilites, more about them and far more rapidly than TPing about the grid.

Xstreet broswing is good for the grid. it doesn't have to support the load of 10's of thousands of avatars and all their attachments and textures hopping from sim to sim.


No doubt there wil be those who pass money to their froends or alts to buy their stuff on Xstreet and write glowing reviews. It would be near impossible to dedect that without analysing the accounts of avatars.
There might perhaps be underhand ways of influencing listings. If there are, then hopefully these can be outed.

However, list rankings on Xstreet have a much lesser influence than ranking in Search. That's because of the ease and speed with which lower rankings can be viewed.

Anyone with the clue to create decent in-world goods is not going to have any difficulty with feeding good-looking copy and images to Xstreet.
Its free! The percentage only clicks in when we sell. And even then, a clear "TP to store" will pull avatars in.


Overall, I think that Xstreet gives content creators a much better chance to have their work seen by others.
As for that percentage - I'd rather have most of something than all of nothing.

Sling:

Nobody is suggesting that the XSSL system isn't a very good way to shop. It has some excellent advantages over the inworld search method.

And nobody is suggesting that the commission is bad. All that is being said is that it's bad for LL to be the one getting the commissions. If they scrapped the commissions, then the whole thinbgs has great potential for everyone in SL. As it stands right now, it's not good for SL traders, and it has the potential of being very bad for SL traders - if LL developes it in the way that they can. They've already done it to an extent, but it can get much worse.

i see it being effecient but who is going to port to a store that is already logged in to Xstreet unless there is a price difference?? not many..

there is a lot of advantage to less problems with the online search for sure but thats about where it ends really..

i mean i am on the site looking at one item at a time..i see something and i buy it and we are done..
now they will never see all the rest of the things in my store because they have gotten the item they came for but never had a chance to look around..

going in store you get all the information right in the store for all the items and looking at a wall of them instead of tons of information on one item..
it's brick and mortar vs online shopping all over again..

before you know it all we need to have is an xstreet account .what would be the point in having a store and land when the xstreet in world way would become the popular choice because it saves time..

this is if it ever was to come in world..

to make your brick and mortar more appealing you would have to charge more for buying at the easier system or in the future you may as well save the money on tier..

now picture everyone following this and pretty soon you have a grid that is gonna start looking pretty dull..
because the way people like to game the system now to make money they will do the same to save it..because a lot are here to take out as much money from sl as they can with as little cost as possible..

this is all a guess like anything and based on them putting it in world which may never happen...
but like anything else if it cost the same and is easier and faster it's gonna usually be the popular choice of the two if they are right next to each other..

myself i like that they are on the front page but i just wouldn't want them in the search in world..
i just don't get a good feeling from it..not that that means anything to anyone but me lol
i just see trading one system for another down the road instead of having two if they go that direction..

and yes something is better than nothing..sometimes..only if you gain in the long run instead of actually ending up with less all the time..

we'll see what happens if it happens i guess..lol

your only problem with it is that LL is getting the fee's for the items sold on Xstreet?

i'm not seeing why who owns it matters at all..it really shouldn't matter who owns the system..
they should make money on their investment in buying it..
bringing it in world i would see it as them opening up a business inside of their business and that i don't think is a good thing..

but outside of sl i think it's great it gets more exposure..

But exactly there lies the problem Ceka.
By owning XStreetSL, it is in fact more interesting for LL when I sell my new couch through XStreetSL then in-world, because of the fee they get. But, in-world I do pay my tier/rent to run my shop.
Owning XStreetSL can result in a conflict of interests this way, and since LL is not known for their bright decisions (through the eyes of their customer base) as merchants we should worry. But, not just as merchants.

Imagine things do integrate to the fullest, and LL promotes XStreetSL as their sales platform. Why would I need to pay for my land, if a few dozen of boxes on a (tier-free as premium) 512 parcel are enough? That is the way many XStreetSL merchants already do business.
So in the worst scenario, many content providers will remove their in-world presence. Myself I am a bad example as most people want to see furniture, try it out, before they buy. But think of clothes and jewelery for example? Those sell from in-world pictures, so they would be the first to leave and sell from pictures on XStreetSL. Making the whole of SL again a little bit poorer.

This was no issue when XStreetSL was a separate company. Now LL has a financial interest, things might backfire, as thy do have the interest of people buying our stuff not in-world but outside. And most of us would prefer people in-world, I'd think.

Yes. They've entered the marketplace where, because of who they are, they don't belong, imo. They are already pushing *their* sales area for profit, and it could get much worse because they have a vested interest in people shopping in their sales area.

Strangely enough ... or maybe not so uncommon...

When I come across something that looks good on Xstreet..
I *always* click on the "View all by this Merchant".
That *always*

I also *always* TP to the store if it's clear where the store is.


More widespread use of Xstreet would lead to a drop in the number of TPs in SL. I don't see this as being bad for the social fabric of SL. It's actually an improvement in social time and a reduction of grid load caused by TPs and rezzing.
In general, when I see people in stores, they are there primarily to get the shopping done, not to socialise.
If people spend less time shopping - but still buying as much -- then they have more time for using what they buy. They have more time to get out and explore and enjoy.

People can still TP to the stores, TP their friends in, etc.

They also have a vested interest in people paying tier. They have to balance the two.

But here's a question...

What percentage of overall tier is paid by merchants?
Would it actually matter much to them if it turned out that a large number of merchants sold their land and just had a 512m plot with a Magic Box and a few demo products or vendors?
I somehow doubt that it would come to that, but if it did, would it really matter to LL in the big picture?

By enabling all content creators to put an easily-accessed wide range of products in front of potential buyer, they would be encouraging a world for residents to enjoy.
By keeping the overhead costs low for creators, they increase the likelihood that creators will continue to be here.

yep very interested as it is another form of advertising in my eyes

your example of SL competing against us is soooo far off it is sad

for one thing, If it were similar to SL competing against us with their own product, we would not have a choice to do the same

in this case EVERYONE has the same EQUAL opportunity.... to USE XSTREETSL...

maybe that is what bugs you, that it puts people on the same EQUAL standing....

*shrug*

sometimes I think you just like to stir the pot

i see in this case geography as a big issue in something like this..
in my eyes xstreet staying right where it is thats fine..it's another way of doing things and always has been..
whoever owned it was getting that cut no matter what..
to bring it in world as i said in the above post of the one you quoted..i see a lot of problems which we both seem to see as thinning virtual brick and mortar stores in sl..

it's like me opening a mall that you can rent a spot from me to sell your things..i also own the add company you use for a weekly fee that shows your store and the information you put in it..

now i go and buy another add company only this one is an online add company that you are using on consignment so that your items can be seen in another media to reach a bigger audience..

well i am gonna take a free spot right next to your store and add this into my add company you are already paying for..so now..
i have you paying rent for the store..
i have you for paying for an add in my add company and i have a percentage of your money from items being sold from my new online add company that has merged into the same media as your brick and motar adds..

as a shop renter i have lost the advantage of it being an expanded search because now both add companies are actually on the same media now instead of being in two different media..

so i'm gonna go with the free one dump my add..since it is an online shopping company i think i don't need my shop anymore because why pay rent if none of my customers are ever gonna come here if they can purchase from the online store..

now..in world this will affect malls and they will fade away along with clubs because most are there to attract to malls anyways. then the beat goes on..

if they come into the in world search there is no reason to pay for in world adds.not when we can set up an xstreet add for a percentage..we will lose why xstreet exists..

if it becomes a stand alone for stores i can see..but you are gonna have even more people using xstreet because now you won't have to buy or rent land at all to open a shop in sl..more compoition that will eat up the search.
because you get a free search add with xstreet and a way for people to purchase...

i guess i just see the efficiency of it all killing off more of our sl experience i guess..
i'm sure it will be great for those that want to make money but it's gonna kill off something i have always loved to do..Shopping...shopping was always fun..
i just hope people will keep their shops..

this is based on worst case scenario but still when has it ever been the best case? lol

if it is handled where things balance out yes it would be a nice improvement in grid performance..i just don't want it where we end up losing the shops in sl ..thats the fun of shopping..when one thing goes away or is affected too hard it hits the whole ecco system and other things change..if it does happen i really do hope it is for a better sl and not a blanker sl lol

So if you have an in-world store LL makes money from teir. If you use xstreetsl, LL makes money on *your* sales through a commission.



This isn't a conflict of interest - this is a convergence of interest.

When you make money, LL makes money. That's good, right? LL (like any individual or corporation) wants to make money. You want to make money. You both make money the same way at the same time. You both have the same self interest in *you* making sales. They *want* to help you make sales, so they profit.

It would be different if LL used this marketing and sales platform to push their own content over yours, but that's not what's going on here (which is why this is different than the 10L thing at xstreetsl mentioned earlier).

They have expanded their methodology for providing a service to residents. The service is helping residents market and sell their products. They are in a different marketplace than you Phil, because your profit is made from selling goods. Their profit is made from selling services.

Their profit model (marketing and sales services) is an expense for you when running your business. If anything, they compete with the folks who provide a service teaching sales and marketing instruction. Not you.

I doubt that they are going to try any such juggling, but you never know.

I hope you're not specifically asking me those questions because I know as much about that as I assume you do - nothing.

i guess i am starting to understand this..
who owns it i don't care really..it could be LL or the ceo's girlfriend ..i don't care..

i guess i am just looking at the possibilities of what it will do in world..

i think i was looking at the in world search as one entity and the online as one..
when really the in world is many searches in one..

really there would be no more cost in anything if there was a tab for it in the search.

i guess it will depend if it does come in and how we would actually search from it..will it be with the browser options or will a list of adds pop up if we type in the word shirt..or will we get a page of items if we type in a designer..

i know one thing for sure..i woke up way too early and started to think to hard too soon and that can make a person dizzy..i've over thought this thing way too much..
and mah head huts hehehehe

Sorry, but that's wrong.

The only people who have an equal opportunity to use XSSL are traders. LL has the whole shooting match and is far more equal than any of us to push/encourage people towards THEIR OWN sales area, where they skim a percentage off the top of many sales

LL really IS competing against traders, whether you can see it or not. They're not competing with products, but they are competing with us to get people into their selling area instead of ours.

And kindly stop talking about me personally. We are discussing LL and XSSL - not any individuals.