Clubwatch

I made a club, it was busy for awhile when I actively promoted it
Then RL stuff happened and club went to the wayside, kept it though cuz it seemed some ppl liked to just hang out there

Redesigned club, ppl still liked it and still went there

Sold land (owner of the sim I run bought the mainland the club was on) and land was used for a mini mall (which flopped)
moved club, then moved club back to the previous land (boss said use it)

club now stands where it did when I opened it sept 14/06

I took part of the club, redesigned it yet again, and moved it to the sim I am developing.

Now it looks like a remodeled warehouse, nothing huge and fancy, one dance floor, a bar a couch, a patio in the back with tables and chairs and a hot tub

it has a oh snap picture board and a rate my photo board

ppl like it and come hang out just because they like it.

sometimes we party there, even a linden or 2 have been known to drop in.
I do not do events though, can not afford to give my money away

So.... if you are looking for a bit of something different in a club, where you can dance to the streaming music, or just chill on the sofa and chat with a friend (voice is enabled for those who want it) then back seat norm is the place for you.

almost a year and it still exists

oh and to the OP yes I would be interested in a group like that, keep me in mind if you make one

Fifteen others did not agree with me? Agree on what? Do you even know what you're talking about? I didn't write anything to have anyone agree with me. I wrote that maybe they should have a list for clubs too. It didn't require an agreement nor did I ask for one.

Yeah, I know what was being discussed, and?

Gomez.....you're thread got hijacked. I was afraid that would happen......and it did. Pretty much as I expected to happen too. The arguers are not reading what you typed......they are reading what they want to argue about.

Blacklist and your idea of a clubwatch for members to share information that may help them maintain peace and quiet are two very different things. I guess dictionaries and reading comprehension are things of the past.

I'm still with you, though

stands beside peggy

I am with you too, hopefully my post did not derail too much, but at least I was not fighting with anyone hehe

Do you aknowledge that people who are not guilty of being griefers can be added to these lists?

Do you aknowledge both Philip and Daniel Linden have said that Publishing lists of griefer avatars is the offical LL policy of the future?

Do you not see how these two things are incompatible with the ban anyone and add anyone to a list for any reason?

------------------------------------------

I think people should still be able to ban any avatar for any reason.

I dont see how LL can stop people from making black lists.

I DO see us able to get the word out of the dangerous pitfalls of such lists.

I DO see us being able to argue agaisnt the planned offical LL policy suggesting and PARTICIPATING in such lists.




This is all fine and dandy when people are playing the "IF you arent guilty you have nothing to fear."

But who watches the watchmen?

Whe protects the wrongfully accused?

No one.




-----------------------------

Why should an innocent person have to go to 40 clubs and convince the owner they arent a bad person becuase their EX was vengeful?

Theres no license to run a club in SL. I could start one tonight and have it up and rolling before Midnight.

No its the same thing on a smaller scale.

Of course club owners can talk to each other about things like problem customers, and will. And of course they can formalize their conversations with a group that exchanges IMs if they want to. And of course Clubowner B is going to be on the lookout for Clubowner A badmouthing someone for personal reasons rather than blindly ban the people badmouthed because Clubowner B wants people to come to his club. Those arguing against such exchange of information are pissing up a rope. Try to prevent it. Come on, try, I dare you.

That said, it would be good to find a mechanism to allow someone to defend themselves who is being banned, because there will be people in the group who will abuse their position. I had that happen to me in Banlink. Fortunately, Banlink provides such a mechanism, so I did not suffer at all from being viciously libelled there; so should your proposed solution.

I'm wish I could say I was stunned that anyone would argue this is not a blacklist, but sadly I'm not. Let me just attach a couple of quotes from the Wikipedia entry on Blacklist:





Rationalize its existence all you want, but a blacklist by any other name would have the same effect.

Kevyn.......why didn't you post a link to "watchlist"?

Gomez's idea is not a blacklist..........rather a watchlist. Your hard work at doing a search for "blacklist" was wasted.

No need to be stunned.........you are not talking about the same thing. You are off on some tangent and seem to gather up enough brain power to read (listen) to what the subject is.

Don't scold and speak condenscendingly when you are off subject......it shows a really low level of intelligence.

Check it out...........my friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchlist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacklist

See any difference?

What happens if im a suspected griefer?

Someone posts to the chat link "Watch out for Colette Meiji - she's a griefer"

OR even better - I get on a group notice "Watch out for Colette Meiji- she's a griefer"

Then people reading it ban me pre-emptively.

Oh but wait turns out the one accusing me - just didnt like me personally, I never was a griefer - guess no one will ever know that.


-----------------------

If they dont ban rumored griefers pre-emptively whats the point of the group in the first place?

"Watch out for X person - but dont ban them - " ?

please.

oh my Peggy, stooping to ad hominems.

Collette........I can do that right now. I'm friends with several club owners and they do value my thoughts.

You and so many others are being paranoid.

I guess you object to neighborhood watches in RL too.

Nawww...........just being sarcastic.

Hmmm, Peggy, your pointer shows only:



Yes, I do notice the difference, my pointer had relevant content while yours had none.

So you have no valid counterargument to mine, fine then.

Since you are just being sarcastic then I will assume you do in fact know that neighborhood watches have no authority to ban individuals from their neighborhoods but must in fact go through due process of law as Colette suggests. So it is quite consistent to opposed to the current proposal but supportive of neighborhood watches.

Did you notice that there were clickable links........for more information

The two terms do not mean the same thing...........that's the point.

You are arguing about "banlists" or "blacklists".........the OP isn't talking about that. But, in your infinite wisdom you decide to post a definition for "blacklist'. Really shows how well you listen.......huh?

Keep on making an idiot of yourself.......I'm enjoying it.

There is no "due process" in SL.........in case you have not noticed

Am I being paranoid? - You just said you could get me pre-emptively banned.

While I am hopeful you are considerate enough not to do so. I dont presume everyone is.



A Neighborhood watch is not the same thing at all.

They have the ultimate limit placed on them. No one they suspect is prosecuted just on their say so.

Thank you -

there is no due process - you are precisely right.

This points out one of the reasons Black Lists in Second Life are so potentially Harmful.

Again I am glad Travis and banlink AT LEAST recognize this part of the problem as a potential issue.

The concept is the same, Collette.............and no, I would not point anyone out that I did not personally suspect of wrong doing. But I would point it out if I did suspect.........it's the "neighborly" thing to do. The "due process' comes when the owner makes a decision one way or the other.

Keep on arguing your point........it's not on subject though.

No - its entirely on subject.

Does this Clubwatch idea (and the related SLAM) come up with avatar names and do those names get banned from clubs?

YES or NO?

If yes - which certainly seems the purpose of the entire group - then its a Black list.

Oh my yes, (I suppose it was too difficult for you to select the one you intended and point to that and give reason why you felt it was relevant.)



You've yet to post how they are different. The only seeming one is that a watchlist is run by the government and a blacklist can be run by either the government or "other authority figures", which, since the proposal is not run by any government, makes blacklist the more appropriate term.



I listened to what the OP proposed and gave arguments why it is a blacklist. I've yet to see an argument why it isn't except that "it just isn't".



/me ignores Peggy's continued ad hominems, which seem to be the only weapon in her arsenal.

Which is why comparing in SL to a neighborhood watch is invalid, which was the point you apparently missed.

Cool, another Black List.