Dept. of Public Works: Full Speed Ahead

Well you could make more officers in the group and give them the freeze/eject power, if not the ban ability.
But of course freeze power would have to work longer than 20 seconds
You could vote for freeze time to be extended too
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3914

Good question, my list is around 14 months old and they are still all there.
Periwinkle did stop having new residents for a couple of months prior to redecoration.
I have 5 alts that log in and sometimes hangout at 5 different infohubs, and I have spent time helping new people at many of them and there are many others that do, I can't say I know of any residents complaining about any of the infohubs except Bear, most seem to max out at 20 people. And if anything the griefing problems I've seen are worst at Waterhead, Ahern, Hanja, the larger infohubs.
My alt has never had a problem logging in at Bear yet, and I don't see it any worse than the other 4 infohubs I log into, yes it may have more people there than normal for it's size but I never seen it near the 40 it supposedly regulaly gets to. Is my alt allowed to gather if my main pays tier? I know a couple of others down there do have land they pay tier on too.
Damn if a problem pissed me off that much I would just move, the drama isn't worth it unless you want drama I guess.
Well if it shut down then maybe the sim residents would enjoy having no traffic at all. Then again maybe if you sold out Govern Linden could use your land to expand the infohub.

Perhaps become part of the group, network with them and instead of alienating them, then trying to win back their patronage with advertising?
They are people not just green dots on your monitor that annoy you.

Sounds like an opportunity for you to build one.

It's late and your making me laugh. And you skirt the issue. So I will reiterate to get you back on on track:

The one-sim infohubs were never meant for groups to gather, recruit and develop into unsupervised chat areas (as per Linden Lab's official definition of these spaces) in Posts #20 and #42 I posted the Linden Lab definition of the one sim infohub (establishing that LL never intended them for mass gathering places).

I don't know what 'win back their patronage' means. Since none of the people that abuse the sim resources are patrons.

This is a grid-wide issue that is about to be compounded by the building or yet more of these unsupervised Linden builds.

So why do they put so many seats and townhall chat relays in infohubs, if they are not meant to be used? LL don't say anywhere intheir diffinition that they aren't allowing gathering. They say they are information areas, they don't say only "10 people at a time", I don't see any official "no loitering" signs up. Maybe we just should disallow more than 10 people gathering at anytime anywhere, to be fair, why should it be allowed in private, if it's not allowed in public? Do we AR the 11th person to step in the group or everyone for being part of this griefing illuminati conspiricy to undermine SL?
Yep technically you are right because my main attended your DJ school which was very good, informative and no relevance to this issue, my alt who was born there is still a non-patron abuser. I guess you know that NONE of the people rezzing or hanging out at Bear infohub have ever attended your classes, so why all your signs around the infohub?
Seems more a single sim issue to me you are making out to be grid wide.

Stupidity
Yes, we know what LL does not say. So until LL writes a tome larger than the Bible full of rules we just have to continue adding to them so the local sociopaths can understand they are harming others with their actions.

Again, your not not basing your statements on FACTS. Some that abuse the InfoHub resources have taken that class.

The person that owns the stores directly across from the infohub feels it is unfair that the infohub we pay tier in that sim to support is more of a deterrent to us than a asset. When the infohub has traffic of 11,000 and the store directly across from it has traffic of 112 - it is obvious the infohub as a unsupervised chat area does not enhance the surrounding parcels.

You desperately want it to be a one-sim issue - so you ignore facts. You keep your scope narrow and limited and plow full speed ahead. Those of us (many who have responded to this and other threads on this issue - but you cannot decipher what they are talking about) have witnessed and complained about these unsupervised Linden areas.

Lias, you have yet to post what you would do to fix this problem. Give us some concrete answers instead of your martyr routine.

You talk about facts, but you have yet to provide any of substance.

Maybe it would be better if the infohub was pulled and the land sold to Mr. Hax.

I ignore personal attacks in forums - what a waste of time.

Since a few in this forum refuse to read the posts and would rather flame - I will help keep them on track.

Here are the suggestions posted in this thread to ADDRESS the unsupervised infohub issues:

POST #19

POST #23

POST #27

POST #33

POST #77

POST # 78

These all seem like reasonable ways to ADDRESS the issue of unsupervised, overcrowded abused infoHubs. Building more is not a viable solution. Ignoring the real grid wide issue or talking in circles will not make the issue go away.

Or, it could also be just as obvious that the stores surrounding it are smaller than the infohub, and/or simply don't have stuff that people want to buy, or a high quality of item.

I haven't checked out all of the stores there to see whether in my opinion the stuff is good or not - which, of course, will differ from other people's opinions - but you can't just assume that low traffic is simply because everyone is staying at the infohub because it's there.

None of those suggestions will keep people from sitting and talking in the info hub. Sitting and talking is not griefing, no matter how much you think it is. Tell us Lias, how do you propose to keep people from sitting and talking in the info hub?

Should these mentors keep a clock on people there and kick them after 10 minutes, 20, 30 minutes? A counter and kick everyone there over a certain number? Tell us Lias, how do we solve the problem of people socializing where you think they shouldn't be.

... in a place that, by its very nature, is a place where people CAN socialise?

Well LL could buy out the whole Sim I suppose. Imminent domain.

Or they could just delete the info hub and put the land up for sale.

It is not an assumption - it is a documented fact. The number of people rezzing into the infohub has increased. The stores have classifieds and search listings - In two years the business' have not relied on the infohub to make sales - that would be a very bad business plan. The infohub mostly represents grefing and lag. Not from the new players that rez there but from the experienced players that have claimed it as their unsupervised play area.

The large chat group in the infohubs DO NOT MOVE FOR HOURS. This stops the natural flow of traffic into the sim. All of this is basic urban planning. We have yet to be introduced to a Linden that claims tro have any experience or focus in this area. The difficult challenge facing planners comes with the implementation of sustainability visions, policy and programmes, and in the midst of doing so, the need to modify institutions to achieve these goals.

Two friends of mine own 80% of a mainland sim and have no say in what happens there any more than the owner of the annoying 16sqm ad farm (which sadly isnt up for sale) - majority means nothing.

Why should LL delete an infohub just because you want it gone? Why can't you move instead?

So then why build 40 more unsupervised areas that cannot be controlled? As the freee account community quickly triples in size this year - and the groups that have claimed these unsupervised areas invite more and more new players to loiter in large numbers in these areas - what then becomes of the land owners in these sims?

I can guess the gist of your response: pack it in and move on. Linden Lab has, in effect, reclaimed the sim and you must vacate if you do not like it. And as you can decipher about now - I do not agree with that at all.

Actually, I am not in favor of public works. Any and all land should be privately owned.

This is the exact type of problem that comes up with common property. But hey, I am sure when they mentioned putting the hub there, you thought you could get some free traffic to your land and fleece a few noobs. Guess it didn't work out like you thought.

I don't want an info hub gone

I was merely stating alternatives.

If the infohub is making life for people in that SIM unlivable those are options.

If you owned a 512 parcel with 40 camp chairs and they were full all the time LL will remove some - Thats been said many times.

How is the info hub immune to the same sort of rules? If it consistanly monopolizes the sim resources theres and issue there.

And even if people move its an issue that stays for the new landowners.

Ya know, I wonder if we aren't busy conflating two things. When I think of the LDPW stuff, I don't think "zOMG! We're gonna dot the landscape with mini Aherns!" - I think of Mohrr Island, or the Great Wall, or the ferry building in Purple, or ANWR, of the train stations, or the Governor's Mansion. Maybe we're focusing way too much on Infohubs when we speak of this issue? Jes maybe?

Mari

Absolutely!

I appreciate Oryx's faith in me. But there are subtle issues involved in this idea.
Before I became a Mentor, I was all in favor of giving the Mentors some level of police powers, too. Now that I've seen how diverse the Mentor group really is, I have to say that I would not want to trust all of them with those kinds of abilities. Limiting the powers to a specific area, as Oryx suggests, would help, of course, and might make the idea workable. (Come to that, I might not trust ME with those abilities. I found myself fingering the Orbit trigger of my MystiTool the other night after meeting up with an exceptionally asshattish citizen.)

The screening process for Mentors has been quite variable. For a while there, it was almost impossible to get certified. Not that the bar was too high, but the review process was far too slow. Late last year, that logjam broke, and certification times dropped to only weeks, or even days. Lately, LL has been talking about raising the standards for getting, and keeping, Mentor-hood. Unless LL has some hidden selection criteria, it seems to me that all it takes to become a Mentor is six months' experience and a clean rap sheet. And maybe not all that clean a rap sheet...residents with a history of griefing have become Mentors. Some Mentors have been accused of doing things that violate the TOS. (I'm not meaning to disparage my fellow Mentors with these observations. The great majority of them ARE highly qualified to help others, many of them much more so than I. But that is to THEIR credit, not, I think, to LL's screening process.)

If Mentors were to be given some level of "house management" authority, there would also have to be some form of supervision, or oversight. Maybe a Linden popping in every now and then to see what the Mentors are up to.

The post about "urban planning" struck a chord with me, too. I've been hanging out at Waterhead for months now. Yesterday, for the first time, I finally flew around, exploring beyond the infohub. There were all SORTs of interesting things within just a short flight down the Linden road that runs by the place. But the structure of the welcome area itself does not work to funnel traffic out of the area and toward the other attractions. One tends to stay in the area, as I did for so long. Instead of trees and a hill blocking the view, it would be better if people could see tantalizing things, off in the distance. And there should be signposts...just some boards with arrows pointing the way to things like the Knowledge Park and the Art Gallery.

But back to the main topic, Public Works. There should be some, IMO. If nothing else, it gives creative people without the funds to buy their own land a chance to build things that we ALL can enjoy. But I also agree that there should be an emphasis on roads and open waterways, too. That would do as much as new public parks to improve the world overall.

Exactly right. The funny thing is, the Bear InfoHub is really a very good design for funneling people *out* of the InfoHub into the surrounding community--and I've watched it at work, the brief time I was there. Of course, the Bear sim is a special case (as I've been repeatedly reminded--for other reasons ) because it has all this interesting Linden infrastructure: a river running right down the middle, a huge bridge, and three roads, in addition to that InfoHub. So there's a lot of reason to explore from there. That's in stark contrast to the Welcome Area at Hanja, which is out in the middle of an empty pasture. So, like Ahern and Waterhead, everybody at Hanja ends up in the middle, milling about and wondering aloud "what's to do in this SecondLife thing? Seems pretty boring."

Perhaps some of the answer to the problems is to better leverage the existing and new Linden infrastructure to pull people out of these gathering areas, in favor of the much more interesting stuff that's available, compared to the communal navel-gazing that happens there now. I wonder, of Mari's list of Mainland Wonders, how many are even known by the InfoHub visitors as options for exploring, or any hint why they might be worth the expedition.

I had no business in the sim when LL asked me about putting that hub there. I had moved to my private island and kept a house on the property on the mainland. So no, I did not consider fleecing anyone. Don't push your anti-social behaviors onto others.

Chris isn't anti-social

He is anti-socialism

bit of a difference LOL

Again, Blue Linden indicated that these new builds will be used to direct new players to their first mainland experience to set home in (yes, just like a infohub). Most of the loiterers tell me Linden Lab sent them there 3 months ago to set home so there they stay. So what do you think will become of these new Folly Builds within a year? The exact same thing as infohubs: unsupervised overcrowding, greifing and illegally recruiting new players.

It is amazing to me that many refuse to see the correlation between free accounts/increased population/over crowded unsupervised Linden areas. What is being put in place to turn this trend around? Absolutely nothing.