Double, Double

This is an interesting observation. I had noticed this in a thread way back....either had to do with clubbing, or IMing, or dancing, or something. But a large portion of women suggested that they would not dare IM a man, or ask for a dance, or approach them.

Not judging......just want to know "Why?" Especially here?

"extra parts"????


I think you're experience of being the same, but a bit different, is probably true of nearly all of us. My perception -- and it's not a very well-informed one -- is that there is a higher percentage of "sensitive" males in SL than in RL. Maybe SL isn't as effective at attracting the stereotypical macho asshole? (Although I've certainly run across a few of those . . .)

But why does being more sensitive, or touchy-feely, or what-have-you, make male bonding more difficult? I think it's truly great that it probably enables better male-female friendships, but couldn't you be doing group hugs and emotion-therapy sessions with other males?

/me nods.

It seems especially strange given that the costs of rejection are, presumably, less high here, given our relative anonymity.

I have to admit that I will very rarely initiate IM contact with anyone, male or female, other than a close friend. But I am very good at opening conversations, with anyone, in chat. I'm certainly not "shy" in the normal sense. But, to me, IMs imply an invitation to more intimacy than I am usually willing to grant to someone I don't know fairly well.

Am I wrong to think of IMs this way, do you think?

I think you are wrong to think of IMs this way. I toss IMs to anyone. It's not about intimacy, as in sex. If that were the case, then I would never toss one to a woman. If a woman tosses you an IM at the store, and asks you where you got your dress....do you consider that a proposition for intimacy? Probably not. So we have to be fair with the men on that.

Was joking with you on the "parts" comment....hair, maybe. Unless you spend some time at the nude beaches....then, you might want to invest in a part. I actually think that the nude beach experience would be valuable. Different perspective, maybe.....as opposed to shopping.

Oh, by intimacy I don't necessarily mean sex or romance. Just . . . intimacy. An exchange that is a bit less "casual" and public than open chat. I actually feel close to the same way about IMs with other women as I do about sending them to a man, with the primary difference being that I am less likely to be afraid that they will be misread as a come-on.

I certainly recognize that there are people who are much more casual with IMs than I am, just as there are many who are much more free with friendship offers than I am. That's probably my hangup; it may well be that I epitomize the fault that I am critiquing!

Yeah, I was joking about the "parts" bit too. I'd feel enormously self-conscious on a nude beach in SL as myself -- er, as Scylla, I mean. I wonder if I would feel the same way with a male avi?

It depends on the setting, if it's a group of people all talking together in chat, I'll rarely IM one of the group. If it's a crowded area with no chat taking place, or random conversations in chat blending together, I'll use IM to isolate the conversation, almost like a quiet conversation in a crowded area in RL.

As far as not being a touchy feely guy with other guys in RL - I dunno, I'll hug male friends I haven't seen in a while, but, conversations are usually about sports, recreation, work, projects etc - you know - "guy stuff" *grins*

That seems really sensible. As I say, I am beginning to think that the whole IM thing is mostly my own hangup.

ok...understood. But I don't consider an IM intimate in either way. It's like speaking to someone at a cocktail party in RL. You spot someone across the room that has a great tie. So you would most likely walk across the room, and tell them that, at a moderate voice level.

You may not shout across the room, and over 20 people...."Hey Dude! Great Tie!" (unless there was some overkill on the appletinis) So, to me...the IM is generally just a direction of the voice. Rather than shouting across the room.



Try it. With either gender. I think with an alt, you'll feel a bit freer. I use an alt. Not necessarily because of the nudity....just don't want to be interrupted constantly from store business....because there are some good conversations going on at some nude beaches. I'm learning French at one. It's kind of cool to be able to sit on your beach towel naked, and enjoy a nice, non-threatening, non-suggestive conversation. Too bad we can't do that more often in RL.

Yeah, again, that makes good sense. I might do something like this, occasionally, but I don't think I'd ever send an IM this way to a male avi. But again, that's almost certainly just my hangup.


And speaking of hangups . . . yeah. I should try this, just to experience it, and see if it "does anything" for me. And I will, honestly. One day. Soon. Really . . .

SL is a great place to forget about hang-ups.

I am curious as to whether you feel the same about pm's in forums as im's in sl?

Actually, no I don't. Isn't that odd? PMs in forums to me just seem a way of addressing stuff that you don't necessarily want public.

I know there's no real logic to that.

I'll try it the same evening we take Treasure to her first club . . . (/327/57/359207/3.html#post2661321)

I don't mind taking you out for some exploration, any time. If it feels better to do that with someone you know, not a problem. But it's more of an adrenaline rush, and maybe more enlightening to just toss yourself out there, on your own.....without back-up. Using an alt helps a lot. No risk. (generally)

And Kay, sorry for the diversion......but there are a lot of reasons plugged into these pages, on "why" people use alts.

C'mon Scylla - just do it !!
I'll dig out my old '06 PG female to accompany you, and, I'll promise to laugh at all your jokes *grins*

Be prepared to notice how few decent freebie clothes, skins, hair etc there are for guys though.....

I got curious about this and asked some male friends. They pretty much all agreed that it is difficult to talk to any stranger not in a formal capacity or in a place for a mutual activity / hobby.

Going back to the bigotry. I recently advised a friend to -not- reveal that they are physically a man to everyone:

1) Even in our minority, trans-genders are treated differently.
2) There is no doubt in my mind that I am speaking to a woman, (more fem than me and has so many ... the whining for one ... yeah, way too natural.)
3) No one has realised that their voice is that of a man's. Has the right pitch and tone, I think she just lifts her voice a bit but comes across as natural and in fact more feminine than most. ( I want to hear them versus most other women, I am getting a suspicion on that one.)
4) It is going to hurt and upset a great many people.
5) Mentally and emotionally, the parts we do interact with; they are definitely female, so in SL to me they are --completely-- female.

HOWEVER, I did caution them to let their special someone know, if they do meet them and things are starting to get serious.

I didn't say I wanted to go.........I just said I'd never been. I'm not at all sure I do want to go. It's so not me, for one thing I'm deaf and so music and me.........don't mix well. I can sometimes hear, some, on Sl, and sometimes not. Rarely do I use voice, only if someone is unable to type, for reasons of disability, and truly needs to use voice, then I struggle thru it. So I will think about it.

*Play the Beach Boys*
Gooood Gooood Good Vibrations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY4_g7wNK8Q

Speaking of which, I just had a brain storm. Using the Media option, if I used a Youtube player + the music stream. Treasure do you and do you think other deaf people would appreciate being able to read the lyrics along with what people are hearing?

Well, no one has asked me if I "want" a male alt either . . . it's just supposed to be "good for me" in some way.

Clubs are about a lot more than just the music. Generally I go to clubs that play music I like, but not always, and on occasion I'll even just turn the music off. Clubs are ALSO about dancing (sorry Jig!) and a certain kind of community socializing (if it's a good club).

As for voice, I don't use it myself, and most particularly wouldn't if I were using a male alt. (My voice is reasonably low pitched for a woman, but not THAT low!)

Anyway, think about it. It could be fun.

Oh God, yes. It's what we fight for, what we pray for in almost everything we do in SL and RL. Getting things captioned is SO complex. Only in the past year has it gotten so we have transcriptionists, people who actually transcribe voice to text for us. I can do it myself, but only for my own presentations, of course, if I am speaking in voice, and transcribing my speech out in text as I go. But I digress, yes we always appreciate any kind of transcription we can get, for anything, because it allows us to participate in things that others do. Thanks for even thinking of it.

None of the above behaviours are obligatory for a male av, Scylla.

Now this, on the other hand .....

Okay, I will talk to the builders / owners but you are going to have to support the event because I am not going to the extra effort of looking up every song when there are no deaf people there.

Disclaimer: If it isn't on the first pages of Google as lyrics or in Youtube it will be a "silent" song.

Edit: Dropped a note card with them. I will send you an IM when it is in place. Event is next Sunday. Should be done by then.

If you give me the details of the event I will post to all my deaf groups. Now, obviously I cannot 'guarantee' anyone except myself. Maybe if you give me the time at least, now, I can tell you if I cannot make it. I will still post it to my groups though. Thanks Jenshae for thinking of doing this.

My pleasure. I also realised that I have media access and can rezz objects so I can put down a Youtube viewer by myself.

Logging in to note card the details to you.

Edit: I don't have deed to group permissions so I will have to wait for a manager, builder or owner.

" MediaTube 1.2: I can't play media yet because I'm not owned by the parcel owner."

Ok, Mickey . . . I found your nude beach. And yeah, I went au naturel . . .



Of course, there was no one else there at the time . . . but still, pretty daring, eh??



(I don't THINK this shot is NSFW, but if anyone objects, I'll take it down.)