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What can we non-EU players do to help our brothers and sisters in the EU ? |
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Walker Moore
Fоrum Unregular
Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
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10-09-2007 11:37
What is the justification in being pissed off at LL over the VAT? They changed the notice thing (which means they ate the cost of the VAT for another month). As it happens, my amount due on October 14th - according to the secondlife.com/account page - still includes the VAT. Permission to be pissed off about that too please?  _____________________
It's only a forum, no one dies.
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Walker Moore
Fоrum Unregular
Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
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10-09-2007 11:38
The castle in Brussels had already told us, informed us, and kept us upto date with VAT. _____________________
It's only a forum, no one dies.
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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10-09-2007 11:45
What castle? Is a metaphor whizzing past my head here? /me hands Walker her spare Flight Helmet _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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10-09-2007 11:50
Yes, they changed it. There was reason to be pissed off about that *until* they backtracked. As it happens, my amount due on October 14th - according to the secondlife.com/account page - still includes the VAT. Permission to be pissed off about that too please? Well they need to fix that - obviously. There are a lot of people in these threads angry at LL they have to pay the VAT at all... |
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Klang Wopat
"The Consultant"
Join date: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 212
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10-09-2007 12:32
First, take all that cheese and ham and brussel sprouts you pay all those taxes on, and toss them in the harbor.
Then, take your rifle and hide behind a rock. When the Red Coats show up, start with the officers and work your way down. Hey! It's worked before! |
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Har Fairweather
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,320
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10-09-2007 12:37
Perhaps you'd care to look up the Poll Tax riots? We do more than honk horns when required. We topple the Prime Minister and get her silly taxation system abolished thank you very much. Good on you. Wanna march on Brussels? |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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10-09-2007 12:41
Good on you. Wanna march on Brussels? I'll bring the Tea. _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
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10-09-2007 14:50
I feel confident that if something similar happened to we Americans, that some of you in the EU would feel similarly to me. I was very touched by the outpouring of affection for us on 9-11-2001. I'm not sure it's appropriate to equate the taxing of virtual land in a video game with the slaughter of thousands of human beings in the real world, although I do share your sympathy for those residents who've been forced to make some tough decisions about their commitment here due to the price hike they've just been handed. There are many who say it's just a matter of time before other governments catch on to what's going on here in the metaverse, though. You and I might be the ones smarting from unexpected taxes and fees next. _____________________
Desperation Isle Estates: Great prices, great neighbors, great service!
http://desperationisle.blogspot.com/ New Desperation Isle: The prettiest BDSM Playground and Fetish Mall in SL! http://desperationisle.com/ Desperation Isle Productions: Skyboxes for lots (and budgets) of all sizes! |
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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10-09-2007 14:52
. There are many who say it's just a matter of time before other governments catch on to what's going on here in the metaverse, though. You and I might be the ones smarting from unexpected taxes and fees next. Us Europeans are the beta testers! |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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10-09-2007 15:46
I havent called you bad names. I commented on your selfish and aggressive attitude towards others. That isnt calling bad names. If you IM me I know somebody who can explain what calling bad names really is. Thats a very interesting synopsis of international economics btw, however there are several factors you have failed to taken into account. I wont detail them in case you think Im belittling your powers of reasoning. Here you go again with the name calling! I consider the two words you used to be both insensitive and hateful. It is amazing the types of hate speach that are directed towards Americans and Japanese these days. Which part of Europe are you from? Perhaps you can kill the warm and fuzzy feeling of mine aquired towards Germany as a result of my trip there last summer. I am one half German of all things. You liked my dissusion of international economics? Hmm you will be the first but then again my major in college was aeronautical engineering not economics. I tend to see things from a consumers point of view instead of a business. I do not run a business in Second Life and have no desire to do so. Anything constructive you can write about the "flaws" in my argument would be appreciated. However I think the rate of exchange is very important. It makes the cost of European Products much more costly over those of the Asia Countries and America. The dollar is not the only currency that is going down to the Euro. Remember it was the European Union that estblished the VAT and the United States and Linden Labs have nothing to do with it. If you want to blame someone, look in the mirror! Oh do not bother to IM me in the game, I have already muted you. |
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Sunspot Pixie
dread heliotrope
Join date: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 493
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10-09-2007 15:55
Isn't calling someone hateful name calling?
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If we eat our soup in the rain, we'll never run out...
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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10-09-2007 16:11
Sorry, I don't speak troll.
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Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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10-09-2007 16:12
Sorry, I don't speak troll. I do , Ill translate Rawrr rawwr Grrr RAWR Unga Bunga. |
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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10-09-2007 16:43
As an American citizen and Japanese resident I see no reason to help those in the EU. After all people get the government they deserve. We did not have a thing do with their VAT. About large landlords being affected, tough luck, I do not see large landlords having to pay VAT at this time. After all how would they know where their customers are located? We do not even know the real names or genders really. Thus how can the EU know who to charge and what? Will the EU require Linden Labs to disclose the real names and countries of residence next? I still do not see how they can enforce their will on an American Firm located within the United States. Of course if they locate servers in other countries like fools they will be affected. Philip is the cause of his own troubles. I hear there will be a Japanese version of Second Life soon and it will not be the place of chaos that sl has become. Again, my two countries have enough to worry about without taking on the burdens of the world. *pokes the post to test the insanity factor* yup it passes I give it 10 rating on insanity and you need a new job? I hear Im falling down on the roll of village idiot lately.... I bet you eat glass and sleep on a bed of nails too! _____________________
I know the competition that will come along someday is learning from LL's mistakes. But do they have to make so many? |
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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10-09-2007 16:44
Sorry, I don't speak troll. Oh i do or at least try but i'm not fluent yet ... _____________________
I know the competition that will come along someday is learning from LL's mistakes. But do they have to make so many? |
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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10-09-2007 16:45
you used to be both insensitive and hateful. . I condiser you insentive and hateful however I have been looking for a new award recipient for the Brodaly offensive posts awards section. Its possible you might have won.. I have to leave it up to the judges though me, myself and I take awhile to make these types of important decisions Also how do you feel about hot dogs on sticks? _____________________
I know the competition that will come along someday is learning from LL's mistakes. But do they have to make so many? |
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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10-09-2007 16:54
There is nothing we can do to help the people in the EU! It is after all their goverment and not mine. We can have warm fuzzy feelings but nothing more. I just have a pragmantic view on things, caring salts no fish or does any good. I think your approach if you didn't care would have been to pass the thread over instead of troll it trolling leads to hate hate leads to anger anger leads to uh and then? oh wait that's the wrong part of my psychology book trolling leads to hate with leads to trolling which leads to hate yeah that's the right page.. _____________________
I know the competition that will come along someday is learning from LL's mistakes. But do they have to make so many? |
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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10-09-2007 16:55
We can pretty much have baloon races with all the hot air around lately. I have mor stored up if anyone runs out? I can't possibly use it all so i can share.. _____________________
I know the competition that will come along someday is learning from LL's mistakes. But do they have to make so many? |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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10-09-2007 16:55
I think your approach if you didn't care would have been to pass the thread over instead of troll it trolling leads to hate hate leads to anger anger leads to uh and then? oh wait that's the wrong part of my psychology book trolling leads to hate with leads to trolling which leads to hate yeah that's the right page.. The deal was, you loan me some money. I'll pay you interest and do my best to pay you back |
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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10-09-2007 16:58
The deal was, you loan me some money. I'll pay you interest and do my best to pay you back no no that's not what face value is! _____________________
I know the competition that will come along someday is learning from LL's mistakes. But do they have to make so many? |
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Incanus Merlin
Not User Serviceable
Join date: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 583
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10-09-2007 17:25
OK, trolling aside, I'm looking at this whole issue from a different perspective.
Yes my costs have gone up by 17.5%... so how do I continue being a "  is)land baron" - for want of a better term - and still stay in business?Much like anyone else faced with cost hikes - focus in on your core product, market it properly and do it bloody well, paying real attention to your consumers and giving them added value at every step of the way. I feel for those who have had to tier down, sell off etc, I really do. If VAT were much higher in the UK then I too would have to seriously question my continuing in business here (please recognise that I've never run a RL business, all this is new to me and a wonderful learning experience.. but my income as a wage slave limits my disposable income, so there's a point at which I have to say "enough"... fortunately some way from there yet!) But as it is right now, my partner and I are confident enough in our product that we have decided to expand, admittedly slower now than I would like. Perhaps the addition of VAT forces us Euros to raise our game in order to stay in the game - and that, from the consumer's point of view, must be a good thing? And eventualy therefore a challenge to everyone else if THEY want to compete. Discuss. Inc _____________________
"The wide world is all about you; you can fence yourself in, but you cannot for ever fence it out" - Gildor Inglorion, LOTR
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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10-09-2007 17:30
OK, trolling aside, I'm looking at this whole issue from a different perspective. Yes my costs have gone up by 17.5%... so how do I continue being a " is)land baron" - for want of a better term - and still stay in business?Much like anyone else faced with cost hikes - focus in on your core product, market it properly and do it bloody well, paying real attention to your consumers and giving them added value at every step of the way. I feel for those who have had to tier down, sell off etc, I really do. If VAT were much higher in the UK then I too would have to seriously question my continuing in business here (please recognise that I've never run a RL business, all this is new to me and a wonderful learning experience.. but my income as a wage slave limits my disposable income, so there's a point at which I have to say "enough"... fortunately some way from there yet!) But as it is right now, my partner and I are confident enough in our product that we have decided to expand, admittedly slower now than I would like. Perhaps the addition of VAT forces us Euros to raise our game in order to stay in the game - and that, from the consumer's point of view, must be a good thing? And eventualy therefore a challenge to everyone else if THEY want to compete. Discuss. Inc _____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Wilhelm Neumann
Runs with Crayons
Join date: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2,204
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10-09-2007 17:34
If the Vat doesn't make it impossible to compete but you just make a bit less profit its still doable and I suppose your taking a pay cut. I"m wondering or was wondering at how much profit some barons do make. The price of a sim and the monthly fees are not a secret or anything. However looking at it there is already a wide variety of prices for living on estate type land. If your operating a store on a sim and not renting it out I dont thik its going to have a huge affect. YOu collect your lindens pay your monthy fee and make your tax claims as always. The only place I thought it would have an impact was the land baron business. If there is still profit in it even though your paying Vat on top of it then your just taking a slightly lower wage in the end. Its not like everyone in sl who makes money cant make more money by say getting a job at minimum wage.. Most just make spare cash that they jsut funnel back into sl anyhow.
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I know the competition that will come along someday is learning from LL's mistakes. But do they have to make so many? |
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Incanus Merlin
Not User Serviceable
Join date: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 583
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10-09-2007 17:35
Good for you. Nothing to discuss. You are making rational decisions based on facts and your faith in yourself and your product. In other words, you are acting like an adult. Nicely done. Thank you Ray. Do I make you list yet? lol Inc _____________________
"The wide world is all about you; you can fence yourself in, but you cannot for ever fence it out" - Gildor Inglorion, LOTR
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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10-09-2007 17:40
Thank you Ray. Do I make you list yet? lol Inc _____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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