Second Life Forums Archive - Thievery in foreign lands.

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

08-15-2007 21:21

From: Conan Godwin

The Crimean War? I don't follow your reasoning

That was 1853

And the White House burning war was during the War of 1812

With the burning of Washington being in 1814.

1815 was that Waterloo thing.

----

And Im not sure how capturing American Sailors and forcing them to service in the Royal navy in the War against France constitutes going to war over the American Slave Trade.

Especially since the Authority to Surpress the Slave trade wasnt given to the Royal Navy until 1827 (under piracy laws).

And that Minor detail that the United States Declared war against Britain first.

------------------

Re- the Treaty of Ghent,

Theres no actual provisions for ending the Slave trade. Both Countries just agree that the eventual Abolition of Slavery is a good Idea and that Trafficing is bad.

*********from the treaty********
Article X

Whereas the traffic in slaves is irreconcilable with the principles of humanity and justice, and whereas both His Majesty and the United States are desirous of continuing their efforts to promote its entire abolition, it is hereby agreed that both the contracting parties shall use their best endeavours to accomplish so desirable an object.
*************************

Keep in mind that in 1815 Slavery was Still Legal in Both Countries.

And ironically it was the South (Which wanted to keep Slavery) that Britain provided support to during the American Civil War - The actual war of 1861 Brenda mentioned.

Angelique LaFollette

Registered User

Join date: 17 Jun 2004

Posts: 1,595

08-15-2007 23:37

When in Doubt, Blame the foreigners, it's always worked before, so why not now?

Why is it Racists always try to qualify thier words with Phrases like

From: someone

This is not a racist/prejudice statement, it`s a fact in my case

when it is their Intent to say something in Direct Conflict with the qualifier?

Theft happens in SL, and if you Look about I'm sure you will find Just as much of your Unethicly aquired merchandise Present in stores owned by English speaking persons as well.

as for this comment,

From: someone

the brazilians are really into this sort of thing for some reason.

Were i of Brazilian Extraction i would have ARed this one Instantaniously, As it is I'm still disgusted that you choose to Characterize the whole people for the Actions of a Few, How enlightened of you.

I Understand content creators frustrations with having their Property misapropriated, but that frustration doesn't justify what I've read here.

I'll be taking My concerns about this whole Thread to the Mods.

Angel.

Nina Stepford

was lied to by LL

Join date: 26 Mar 2007

Posts: 3,373

08-16-2007 00:32

well, it just so happens that a huge chunk of content thieves happen to be brazilian.
i didnt make it that way, i merely recognise it.

Rhiannon Boronski

PRIMAL ART OWNER

Join date: 3 Feb 2007

Posts: 220

08-16-2007 00:34

Angelique, I believe you should re-read Jesse's first post where he states that he knows anyone can and does do this, but so far he has only found this to be happening on certain types of sim, it may well be happening elsewhere, but he can only comment on the instances he has found. jesse also stated he knows it is only a few and not all the people from certain groups.

So your opening statement is rather ambiguous to say the least.....when in doubt ??? Jesse is in no doubt at all the way I read his post, he has seen the proof with his own eyes ! Please somebody, if I am wrong here do feel free to correct me, it's still rather early here and am not totally awake yet

the only suggestion I have, which I have made before on similar threads is to start a group for designers and creators inworld where we can all share the names of these offenders, with enough of us banning them, in time maybe they would give up, I doubt it, but it would certainly make their lives more difficult one would hope.

Showdog Tiger

Registered User

Join date: 30 Nov 2005

Posts: 404

My Favorite War

08-16-2007 01:07

Dearly Darlings,

For me, nothing beats the Mexican American War! The Army's storming of the Castle at Chapultepec in September of 1847. All those cute little boys in their uniforms jumping off the walls to their glorious deaths. However, I have to admit parts of the Cold War were pretty exciting. Being in East Berlin and seeing ciggy ashes in your toliet when you came back to your hotel room....and you don't smoke...the KGB and Stasi were always polite with their calling cards.

But I do have one question about product theivery...do we have to worry about virtual lead poisoning?

You all have a lovely morning!

Ever Yours,

Mrs. Showdog Tiger

_____________________

Dogdom Doge

Nika Talaj

now you see her ...

Join date: 2 Jan 2007

Posts: 5,449

Must be nice

08-16-2007 01:20

Lol, Angelique, if you Intend to Eliminate All Mention of certain Nationalities in the same Sentence as the Phrase "Intellectual Property Theft", then you Will Have quite a job Cleaning the Websites of the New York Times, Economist, Financial Times, Information Week, CNN ... Good Luck with That.

Alex Fitzsimmons

Resu Deretsiger

Join date: 28 Dec 2004

Posts: 1,605

08-16-2007 01:37

From: someone

I have a slightly complex (perhaps) question I would like input on.

I`m not too great at explaining my thoughts on "paper" but here goes...

Lately I have been having my hair and clothing stolen and resold, not "knock offs" but the actual article of clothing or prim by prim (and my custom hair textures) illegally taken.

One thing I have come to notice is that each and every time this happens, it is not done by a "white person" or being sold on a solely white sim. It is taken and being resold by "blacks" whose better known neighborhoods are definitely not white. (This is not a racist/prejudice statement, it`s a fact in my case, and I have spoken with other designers who have been victims of theft and they say the majority of it is done on "black SIMs" as well). These particular "black SIMs" I speak of are also HUGE in the reselling of full perm items and BIBs (aka BIABs) which majority of the time house stolen goods and freebies.

While I understand even those who I do not consider to be black can be theives, all of my scenarios having taken place on black sims has imposed a slight 'fear' in me to where I will get "mall rental invites" from a black sim owner and I would decline renting there for fear even more of my items would be taken. If I would TP down to check out their mall, it was as though there were no legitimate businesses, rather many strikingly familiar items that I have seen around "my side of town."

With that said, please offer your opinion(s) up:

- Are the blacks taking and reselling my items fearlessly because I am in the midst of whites so they feel I will never go on their territory and find out they have done this to me?

- If I were to make my presence widely known amongst the black people by setting up shops on their sims, in their language, would that be like saying "Hey! here I am, steal from me!" or do you suppose it would cause the theivery to die down?

I am seriously considering setting up shop space in the different cultural sims who have stolen from me, but I do not want to make a wrong move. Are the theives just theives who don`t care who or what they steal, or does it seem these individuals stealing from me simply because I am part of a different cultural group than they are and they feel their "blackness" is like a wall they can hide behind dividing themselves and their evil deeds from being caught?

Thoughts? It would be nice to get some feedback and opinions on whether it`s a good idea for me to set up shops amongst them or if that`s just asking for trouble and more DMCA`s to be filed.

(Ps, thought It was definitely not intended, I am sorry if this somehow offends anyone, I am not disgusted or upset at any group of people, rather the individuals who have done this who just happen to always be part of "that group"

Edited the original post, leaving almost all of the text untouched save to change the targeted group.

I wonder how this would have been received?

Just curious.

_____________________

"Whatever the astronomers finally decide, I think Xena should be considered the enemy planet." - io Kukalcan

Victorria Paine

Sleepless in Wherever

Join date: 13 Jul 2007

Posts: 1,110

08-16-2007 01:58

From: Lindal Kidd

Is that clear? Put another way: Your IP rights exist, independent of whether or not you formally copyrighted your work. The registration serves as proof of those rights.

Yes, but the main issues are the feasibility and cost of enforcement. Assuming you could actually identify the real world identity of the defendant (which you would need obviously in order to sue them) and, assuming further, that they are located in a place where you could either easily assert jurisdiction against them, or a place that would easily enforce a default judgment issued against them by a foreign court, you still have the costs/benefits issue. For most content designers, there isn't *that* much damage viewed in terms of RL currency -- and the costs of bringing an enforcement action -- particularly if it involves cross-border jurisdiction and enforcement -- would be prohibitive in virtually all cases. Further, if the defendants *do* happen to be located in a RL jurisdiction that does not like to enforce "Western style" IP rights, then the cost all goes for naught.

Jesseaitui Petion

king of polynesia :P

Join date: 2 Jan 2006

Posts: 2,175

08-16-2007 02:21

From: Alex Fitzsimmons

Edited the original post, leaving almost all of the text untouched save to change the targeted group.

I wonder how this would have been received?

Just curious.

Well considering you replaced my text with 2 of the

most controversial racial groups, it would have been taken very bad, that`s a no brainer. The subject of african americas is an extremely touchy one, and has been for centuries.

However, because of the nature of my question (Which was that everytime I have ran into stolen goods originally created by me, it has been on foreign sims as apposed to an american one), I had to introduce 2 groups:

Western civilization, and those whom I consider to be foreign.

If I were white and had a black person stealing from me, this thread would not have even been birthed as that would most likely be an American stealing from an American. This topic was not supposed to be focused on one`s ethnical background, but rather on the fact that the individual theives have always been from barely-english-speaking-SIms and could that perhaps be why they are stealing so freely. (Eg, assuming I will not find them since I belong to the western side of things. They may feel like they are hidden from my view.)

.........I also noted that I am not against any particular race of people (I welcome ANYONE into my shops and try to help them with problems no matter who they are), I am , however, against the individuals who have stolen from me. Being that EVERY SINGLE time those individuals were foreigners, my question was:

a. If I set up shop in these foreign lands will I see the theivery die down. (As my products are popularized amongst them, perhaps their peers will realise those individuals have been stealing)

or

b. Is setting up shops amongst them a bad move. (Would it welcome even more theivery)

That was the question. It does not matter what race these 2 groups were, that was not the issue, they could have been of holy blood and I still would have asked my question.

Unfortunately, only about 3 people answered this question. The other 5 pages are off-topic chatter.

I guess with this post, we can now move on to chapter 4 pg.7 : A debate on whether or not I am racist.

_____________________

a i t u i // Tattoo & Fashion House

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Aitui/127/128/41

Ace Albion

Registered User

Join date: 21 Oct 2005

Posts: 866

08-16-2007 03:05

I don't think racism or nationalism is the issue.

I think it's one of communication.

Tracking down one rip-off artist, I find him set up in a German sim. Of course, I get no response from the sim owner from either an English, or a broken-google-German inquiry about their policy of allowing that kind of thing. Compare that to at least being able to hold a conversation with an English speaking Sim/mall owner, and you have a situation, in my case, where people in non-English speaking communities have an easier way to avoid any attempts I might make to publicly shame them or convince their land-owners to deal with them.

It's not a fact that Germans are more disposed to stealing my designs, it's that my lack of ability with their language means it's easier for thieves who speak German to get away with ripping me off, compared to someone who I can pursue in an English speaking community.

It's purely my own disadvantage that my German is lacking, but it means a free lunch for a specifically German speaking thief in those communities.

As a corollary, it's entirely possible that somewhere, right now, a German speaking creator is being ripped off by a British thief (for example), taking advantage of the former's lack of ability to get any message of fault out in the English speaking community.

I don't think it's about "foreigners being shifty", as much as it's about people taking advantage of social settings.

If/when the open server stuff comes out, you'll have the same situation amplified by all the enclaves not knowing who truly made the first "Cool SL Thinger" that got uploaded to the local mini-world, regardless of nationalities or languages.

_____________________

Ace's Spaces! at Deco (147, 148, 24)
ace.5pointstudio.com

Jesseaitui Petion

king of polynesia :P

Join date: 2 Jan 2006

Posts: 2,175

08-16-2007 03:11

That`s a very good perspective Ace. Thanks for posting it.

_____________________

a i t u i // Tattoo & Fashion House

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Aitui/127/128/41

Cherry Czervik

Came To Her Senses

Join date: 18 Feb 2006

Posts: 3,680

08-16-2007 03:17

Every time I have been ripped off it's been by someone American. I haven't let that small minority of people colour my opinion of the rest of the same nation.

I feel it is dangerous to point the finger at any one group and particularly in regards to the overwhelming majority of German people I found nothing but honesty and decency.

This being said I also know of one particular 'gentleman' who not likes to spawn alts and intimidate any other store owner around him - this guy IS from Germany, the stores around him were German and the estate owner took no nonsense at all from him and made sure he was dealt with.

Asshats come in all guises.

Sorry for your losses guys. This is not aimed at any of you personally i.e. not against your responses.

_____________________

To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.

Stephanie Misfit

Registered User

Join date: 25 May 2006

Posts: 155

08-16-2007 03:36

No, you are not racist and nothing in any of your posts about this matter has implied that you are. The growth of SL has seen the development of some fairly insular groups of people from different cultures. This is fair enough - if you don't speak English very well, it makes sense that you would want to socialise with those who speak your own language, and develop communities within SL on this basis.

The fashion industry in SL has predominantly been comprised of people who speak English (even if not as their first language), and those who move within this circle (creators and consumers alike) generally know that stealing other people's creations and selling them as your own is not on. But if you come from a non-English speaking background, and only move in circles with other people who speak your language, it's quite possible that you may not even be aware that claiming someone's else's work as your own is not OK. How can you know what acceptable behaviour in SL is if you have never spent time around people who can explain what the social mores of this community are? It's quite possible that the particular groups of people who are becoming known for content theft have no idea that what they are doing isn't OK. You log on to SL for the first time, go to sims where others from your country socialise and run businesses, and all you see are BIAB and stolen goods - you could be excused for thinking that stuff is the norm here.

There is also the issue that in some cultures, earning money without having to work for it is in fact socially VALUED. For example, if you live in certain cities in Nigeria and are able to make a living without working, you will be held in extremely high regard by others in your community. This is also the case in certain European countries. That is very much an issue of culture, not of race.

Add to all this the heavy promotion of SL as a place where you can make a quick buck, without any explanation that it takes hard work and talent to achieve that, it's hardly surprising that we are seeing more and more scams here.

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

08-16-2007 04:28

Content theft is a real head scratcher, realistically there is nothing that can be done to stop it that will be effective. If Hollywood can't stop people from pirating movies despite controlling the equipment, the standards, the encryption, the police and the legislature, what luck do you think LL could have? No matter how hard it is, someone will do it (and post how to on the internet).

I haven't read the thread carefully but there are economic considerations at play here: In countries with high costs of living, content theft is hardly worth the effort and risk; you just can't make enough money unless you really work at it. In countries with much lower costs of living, places where the average income per day is less then say 5 US$ becoming an SL fraud pays well enough to be worth the risk. Since it's not thousands of US$ being stolen the chances of getting extradited are slim, the FBI just won't take an interest, the chances of the local authorities getting involved is hit or miss.

In RL there is the problem of imitation products, it is common practice to sell the imitation products in markets where the real products aren't sold; people just won't have the experience to notice the difference. This practice would carry over well into SL and become a bigger problem as SL grows.

That said all said, this thread crossed severals lines it should not have. I'm going to have to lock this thread.

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

Thievery in foreign lands.
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	08-15-2007 21:21 From: Conan Godwin The Crimean War? I don't follow your reasoning That was 1853 And the White House burning war was during the War of 1812 With the burning of Washington being in 1814. 1815 was that Waterloo thing. ---- And Im not sure how capturing American Sailors and forcing them to service in the Royal navy in the War against France constitutes going to war over the American Slave Trade. Especially since the Authority to Surpress the Slave trade wasnt given to the Royal Navy until 1827 (under piracy laws). And that Minor detail that the United States Declared war against Britain first. ------------------ Re- the Treaty of Ghent, Theres no actual provisions for ending the Slave trade. Both Countries just agree that the eventual Abolition of Slavery is a good Idea and that Trafficing is bad. *******from the treaty**** Article X Whereas the traffic in slaves is irreconcilable with the principles of humanity and justice, and whereas both His Majesty and the United States are desirous of continuing their efforts to promote its entire abolition, it is hereby agreed that both the contracting parties shall use their best endeavours to accomplish so desirable an object. *********************** Keep in mind that in 1815 Slavery was Still Legal in Both Countries. And ironically it was the South (Which wanted to keep Slavery) that Britain provided support to during the American Civil War - The actual war of 1861 Brenda mentioned.
Angelique LaFollette Registered User Join date: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 1,595	08-15-2007 23:37 When in Doubt, Blame the foreigners, it's always worked before, so why not now? Why is it Racists always try to qualify thier words with Phrases like From: someone This is not a racist/prejudice statement, it`s a fact in my case when it is their Intent to say something in Direct Conflict with the qualifier? Theft happens in SL, and if you Look about I'm sure you will find Just as much of your Unethicly aquired merchandise Present in stores owned by English speaking persons as well. as for this comment, From: someone the brazilians are really into this sort of thing for some reason. Were i of Brazilian Extraction i would have ARed this one Instantaniously, As it is I'm still disgusted that you choose to Characterize the whole people for the Actions of a Few, How enlightened of you. I Understand content creators frustrations with having their Property misapropriated, but that frustration doesn't justify what I've read here. I'll be taking My concerns about this whole Thread to the Mods. Angel.
Nina Stepford was lied to by LL Join date: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 3,373	08-16-2007 00:32 well, it just so happens that a huge chunk of content thieves happen to be brazilian. i didnt make it that way, i merely recognise it.
Rhiannon Boronski PRIMAL ART OWNER Join date: 3 Feb 2007 Posts: 220	08-16-2007 00:34 Angelique, I believe you should re-read Jesse's first post where he states that he knows anyone can and does do this, but so far he has only found this to be happening on certain types of sim, it may well be happening elsewhere, but he can only comment on the instances he has found. jesse also stated he knows it is only a few and not all the people from certain groups. So your opening statement is rather ambiguous to say the least.....when in doubt ??? Jesse is in no doubt at all the way I read his post, he has seen the proof with his own eyes ! Please somebody, if I am wrong here do feel free to correct me, it's still rather early here and am not totally awake yet the only suggestion I have, which I have made before on similar threads is to start a group for designers and creators inworld where we can all share the names of these offenders, with enough of us banning them, in time maybe they would give up, I doubt it, but it would certainly make their lives more difficult one would hope.
Showdog Tiger Registered User Join date: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 404	My Favorite War 08-16-2007 01:07 Dearly Darlings, For me, nothing beats the Mexican American War! The Army's storming of the Castle at Chapultepec in September of 1847. All those cute little boys in their uniforms jumping off the walls to their glorious deaths. However, I have to admit parts of the Cold War were pretty exciting. Being in East Berlin and seeing ciggy ashes in your toliet when you came back to your hotel room....and you don't smoke...the KGB and Stasi were always polite with their calling cards. But I do have one question about product theivery...do we have to worry about virtual lead poisoning? You all have a lovely morning! Ever Yours, Mrs. Showdog Tiger _____________________ Dogdom Doge
Nika Talaj now you see her ... Join date: 2 Jan 2007 Posts: 5,449	Must be nice 08-16-2007 01:20 Lol, Angelique, if you Intend to Eliminate All Mention of certain Nationalities in the same Sentence as the Phrase "Intellectual Property Theft", then you Will Have quite a job Cleaning the Websites of the New York Times, Economist, Financial Times, Information Week, CNN ... Good Luck with That.
Alex Fitzsimmons Resu Deretsiger Join date: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,605	08-16-2007 01:37 From: someone I have a slightly complex (perhaps) question I would like input on. I`m not too great at explaining my thoughts on "paper" but here goes... Lately I have been having my hair and clothing stolen and resold, not "knock offs" but the actual article of clothing or prim by prim (and my custom hair textures) illegally taken. One thing I have come to notice is that each and every time this happens, it is not done by a "white person" or being sold on a solely white sim. It is taken and being resold by "blacks" whose better known neighborhoods are definitely not white. (This is not a racist/prejudice statement, it`s a fact in my case, and I have spoken with other designers who have been victims of theft and they say the majority of it is done on "black SIMs" as well). These particular "black SIMs" I speak of are also HUGE in the reselling of full perm items and BIBs (aka BIABs) which majority of the time house stolen goods and freebies. While I understand even those who I do not consider to be black can be theives, all of my scenarios having taken place on black sims has imposed a slight 'fear' in me to where I will get "mall rental invites" from a black sim owner and I would decline renting there for fear even more of my items would be taken. If I would TP down to check out their mall, it was as though there were no legitimate businesses, rather many strikingly familiar items that I have seen around "my side of town." With that said, please offer your opinion(s) up: - Are the blacks taking and reselling my items fearlessly because I am in the midst of whites so they feel I will never go on their territory and find out they have done this to me? - If I were to make my presence widely known amongst the black people by setting up shops on their sims, in their language, would that be like saying "Hey! here I am, steal from me!" or do you suppose it would cause the theivery to die down? I am seriously considering setting up shop space in the different cultural sims who have stolen from me, but I do not want to make a wrong move. Are the theives just theives who don`t care who or what they steal, or does it seem these individuals stealing from me simply because I am part of a different cultural group than they are and they feel their "blackness" is like a wall they can hide behind dividing themselves and their evil deeds from being caught? Thoughts? It would be nice to get some feedback and opinions on whether it`s a good idea for me to set up shops amongst them or if that`s just asking for trouble and more DMCA`s to be filed. (Ps, thought It was definitely not intended, I am sorry if this somehow offends anyone, I am not disgusted or upset at any group of people, rather the individuals who have done this who just happen to always be part of "that group" Edited the original post, leaving almost all of the text untouched save to change the targeted group. I wonder how this would have been received? Just curious. _____________________ "Whatever the astronomers finally decide, I think Xena should be considered the enemy planet." - io Kukalcan
Victorria Paine Sleepless in Wherever Join date: 13 Jul 2007 Posts: 1,110	08-16-2007 01:58 From: Lindal Kidd Is that clear? Put another way: Your IP rights exist, independent of whether or not you formally copyrighted your work. The registration serves as proof of those rights. Yes, but the main issues are the feasibility and cost of enforcement. Assuming you could actually identify the real world identity of the defendant (which you would need obviously in order to sue them) and, assuming further, that they are located in a place where you could either easily assert jurisdiction against them, or a place that would easily enforce a default judgment issued against them by a foreign court, you still have the costs/benefits issue. For most content designers, there isn't that much damage viewed in terms of RL currency -- and the costs of bringing an enforcement action -- particularly if it involves cross-border jurisdiction and enforcement -- would be prohibitive in virtually all cases. Further, if the defendants do happen to be located in a RL jurisdiction that does not like to enforce "Western style" IP rights, then the cost all goes for naught.
Jesseaitui Petion king of polynesia :P Join date: 2 Jan 2006 Posts: 2,175	08-16-2007 02:21 From: Alex Fitzsimmons Edited the original post, leaving almost all of the text untouched save to change the targeted group. I wonder how this would have been received? Just curious. Well considering you replaced my text with 2 of the most controversial racial groups, it would have been taken very bad, that`s a no brainer. The subject of african americas is an extremely touchy one, and has been for centuries. However, because of the nature of my question (Which was that everytime I have ran into stolen goods originally created by me, it has been on foreign sims as apposed to an american one), I had to introduce 2 groups: Western civilization, and those whom I consider to be foreign. If I were white and had a black person stealing from me, this thread would not have even been birthed as that would most likely be an American stealing from an American. This topic was not supposed to be focused on one`s ethnical background, but rather on the fact that the individual theives have always been from barely-english-speaking-SIms and could that perhaps be why they are stealing so freely. (Eg, assuming I will not find them since I belong to the western side of things. They may feel like they are hidden from my view.) .........I also noted that I am not against any particular race of people (I welcome ANYONE into my shops and try to help them with problems no matter who they are), I am , however, against the individuals who have stolen from me. Being that EVERY SINGLE time those individuals were foreigners, my question was: a. If I set up shop in these foreign lands will I see the theivery die down. (As my products are popularized amongst them, perhaps their peers will realise those individuals have been stealing) or b. Is setting up shops amongst them a bad move. (Would it welcome even more theivery) That was the question. It does not matter what race these 2 groups were, that was not the issue, they could have been of holy blood and I still would have asked my question. Unfortunately, only about 3 people answered this question. The other 5 pages are off-topic chatter. I guess with this post, we can now move on to chapter 4 pg.7 : A debate on whether or not I am racist. _____________________ a i t u i // Tattoo & Fashion House http://slurl.com/secondlife/Aitui/127/128/41
Ace Albion Registered User Join date: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 866	08-16-2007 03:05 I don't think racism or nationalism is the issue. I think it's one of communication. Tracking down one rip-off artist, I find him set up in a German sim. Of course, I get no response from the sim owner from either an English, or a broken-google-German inquiry about their policy of allowing that kind of thing. Compare that to at least being able to hold a conversation with an English speaking Sim/mall owner, and you have a situation, in my case, where people in non-English speaking communities have an easier way to avoid any attempts I might make to publicly shame them or convince their land-owners to deal with them. It's not a fact that Germans are more disposed to stealing my designs, it's that my lack of ability with their language means it's easier for thieves who speak German to get away with ripping me off, compared to someone who I can pursue in an English speaking community. It's purely my own disadvantage that my German is lacking, but it means a free lunch for a specifically German speaking thief in those communities. As a corollary, it's entirely possible that somewhere, right now, a German speaking creator is being ripped off by a British thief (for example), taking advantage of the former's lack of ability to get any message of fault out in the English speaking community. I don't think it's about "foreigners being shifty", as much as it's about people taking advantage of social settings. If/when the open server stuff comes out, you'll have the same situation amplified by all the enclaves not knowing who truly made the first "Cool SL Thinger" that got uploaded to the local mini-world, regardless of nationalities or languages. _____________________ Ace's Spaces! at Deco (147, 148, 24) ace.5pointstudio.com
Jesseaitui Petion king of polynesia :P Join date: 2 Jan 2006 Posts: 2,175	08-16-2007 03:11 That`s a very good perspective Ace. Thanks for posting it. _____________________ a i t u i // Tattoo & Fashion House http://slurl.com/secondlife/Aitui/127/128/41
Cherry Czervik Came To Her Senses Join date: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 3,680	08-16-2007 03:17 Every time I have been ripped off it's been by someone American. I haven't let that small minority of people colour my opinion of the rest of the same nation. I feel it is dangerous to point the finger at any one group and particularly in regards to the overwhelming majority of German people I found nothing but honesty and decency. This being said I also know of one particular 'gentleman' who not likes to spawn alts and intimidate any other store owner around him - this guy IS from Germany, the stores around him were German and the estate owner took no nonsense at all from him and made sure he was dealt with. Asshats come in all guises. Sorry for your losses guys. This is not aimed at any of you personally i.e. not against your responses. _____________________ To exchange power is sublime. To steal from another ... well, what goes around comes around.
Stephanie Misfit Registered User Join date: 25 May 2006 Posts: 155	08-16-2007 03:36 No, you are not racist and nothing in any of your posts about this matter has implied that you are. The growth of SL has seen the development of some fairly insular groups of people from different cultures. This is fair enough - if you don't speak English very well, it makes sense that you would want to socialise with those who speak your own language, and develop communities within SL on this basis. The fashion industry in SL has predominantly been comprised of people who speak English (even if not as their first language), and those who move within this circle (creators and consumers alike) generally know that stealing other people's creations and selling them as your own is not on. But if you come from a non-English speaking background, and only move in circles with other people who speak your language, it's quite possible that you may not even be aware that claiming someone's else's work as your own is not OK. How can you know what acceptable behaviour in SL is if you have never spent time around people who can explain what the social mores of this community are? It's quite possible that the particular groups of people who are becoming known for content theft have no idea that what they are doing isn't OK. You log on to SL for the first time, go to sims where others from your country socialise and run businesses, and all you see are BIAB and stolen goods - you could be excused for thinking that stuff is the norm here. There is also the issue that in some cultures, earning money without having to work for it is in fact socially VALUED. For example, if you live in certain cities in Nigeria and are able to make a living without working, you will be held in extremely high regard by others in your community. This is also the case in certain European countries. That is very much an issue of culture, not of race. Add to all this the heavy promotion of SL as a place where you can make a quick buck, without any explanation that it takes hard work and talent to achieve that, it's hardly surprising that we are seeing more and more scams here.
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	08-16-2007 04:28 Content theft is a real head scratcher, realistically there is nothing that can be done to stop it that will be effective. If Hollywood can't stop people from pirating movies despite controlling the equipment, the standards, the encryption, the police and the legislature, what luck do you think LL could have? No matter how hard it is, someone will do it (and post how to on the internet). I haven't read the thread carefully but there are economic considerations at play here: In countries with high costs of living, content theft is hardly worth the effort and risk; you just can't make enough money unless you really work at it. In countries with much lower costs of living, places where the average income per day is less then say 5 US$ becoming an SL fraud pays well enough to be worth the risk. Since it's not thousands of US$ being stolen the chances of getting extradited are slim, the FBI just won't take an interest, the chances of the local authorities getting involved is hit or miss. In RL there is the problem of imitation products, it is common practice to sell the imitation products in markets where the real products aren't sold; people just won't have the experience to notice the difference. This practice would carry over well into SL and become a bigger problem as SL grows. That said all said, this thread crossed severals lines it should not have. I'm going to have to lock this thread. _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey

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Thievery in foreign lands.