Thievery in foreign lands.

I have a slightly complex (perhaps) question I would like input on.

I`m not too great at explaining my thoughts on "paper" but here goes...


Lately I have been having my hair and clothing stolen and resold, not "knock offs" but the actual article of clothing or prim by prim (and my custom hair textures) illegally taken.

One thing I have come to notice is that each and every time this happens, it is not done by an "american/canadian/aussie, etc" or being sold on a solely english speaking sim. It is taken and being resold by "foreigners" whose better known language is definitely not english. (This is not a racist/prejudice statement, it`s a fact in my case, and I have spoken with other designers who have been victims of theft and they say the majority of it is done on "foreign SIMs" as well). These particular "foreign SIMs" I speak of are also HUGE in the reselling of full perm items and BIBs (aka BIABs) which majority of the time house stolen goods and freebies.

While I understand even those who I do not consider to be foreign can be theives, all of my scenarios having taken place on foreign sims has imposed a slight 'fear' in me to where I will get "mall rental invites" from a foreign sim owner and I would decline renting there for fear even more of my items would be taken. If I would TP down to check out their mall, it was as though there were no legitimate businesses, rather many strikingly familiar items that I have seen around "my side of town."

With that said, please offer your opinion(s) up:

- Are the foreigners taking and reselling my items fearlessly because I am in the midst of english speakers so they feel I will never go on their territory and find out they have done this to me?

- If I were to make my presence widely known amongst the foreign people by setting up shops on their sims, in their language, would that be like saying "Hey! here I am, steal from me!" or do you suppose it would cause the theivery to die down?

I am seriously considering setting up shop space in the different cultural sims who have stolen from me, but I do not want to make a wrong move. Are the theives just theives who don`t care who or what they steal, or does it seem these individuals stealing from me simply because I am part of a different cultural group than they are and they feel their "foreigness" is like a wall they can hide behind dividing themselves and their evil deeds from being caught?

Thoughts? It would be nice to get some feedback and opinions on whether it`s a good idea for me to set up shops amongst them or if that`s just asking for trouble and more DMCA`s to be filed.


(Ps, thought It was definitely not intended, I am sorry if this somehow offends anyone, I am not disgusted or upset at any group of people, rather the individuals who have done this who just happen to always be part of "that group"

the brazilians are really into this sort of thing for some reason.

I don't see why foreigners would be more apt to steal and resell.

If it continues with your product, I advice you don't allow modify/copy...

*shrugs*

You can't really do anything to product thieves in SL...digital content is considered "fantasy" and doesn't fall under the real world's intellectual property laws...at least...not legally. It IS your IP...but you can't sue over it.

I say you go to their shops, buy back what they stole, and re-resell it under your name..that'll show'em!!

Um, isn't that kinda like rewarding them for ripping her off?

michael what are you on about? dvd's and cd's are digital content as well. rl law applies to digital content!
and i dont think shes selling these full perm. thats not how they are stolen.

in the world of technology, this was for quite some time a problem with both a budding superpower and a small but productive nation that shares a border with a repressive nuclear regime *cough*

/me has no opinion as to whether it is still happening

the behavior does seem to have a cultural as well as economic root.

Western technology companies tried to counter by offering legit licensing partnerships, but for quite some time that was counterproductive, as it just seemed to offer an easier way to rip off intellectual property. As legal pressure and governmental tariffs kicked in, the behavior gradually moderated, with the larger companies one by one seeing that it is not in their best interest.

In SL, the analogous process might be to hire someone who is a lawyer in RL and presents themself as such to drop nasty threatening communication on the thieves. While that will not stop their behavior, they will probably decide to target someone who is more passive.

I have had five issues with people pirating my content. ALL five were germans. What is with that?

Anyone can steal.

Maybe I did not make my question clear enough.

Im asking if people think I would see less theivery if I made my business in the midst of their sims, as perhaps they are stealing because im 'foreign' to THEM and they assume because of that I will never find out about their thievery.


That will not do anything. With the hair even if someone copied the parameters from the object tab theyd have one hell of a time recreating the hair. Its obvious with the hair they have used some type of prim duplicator similar to what the copybot was capable of.

And believe me, no one is going to be buying no mod hair. heh

Yes, I can, and yes it does. I can file a DMCA. However, LL seems to be taking their merry time addressing it. And that wasnt really the point of this post...at all, unfortunately.


I hope this was a joke For one, its not logical, I may as well set up shop right next to them (Which is part of my initial question) and for 2, That would require me to steal it back as they do not seem to be selling them full perms.

" Originally Posted by Michael Bigwig
...I say you go to their shops, buy back what they stole, and re-resell it under your name..that'll show'em!! "


No. Not a bit!
It really makes them suffer and makes them amend their ways, even if they don't want to.

how are they getting the products? Are you selling them with full perms or are they using a copybot? I wish I had a good answer for you. I don't know why you are seeing a problem with one particular group. maybe there are some cultural differences between the way the Western World approaches intellectual property issues and the way other cultures approach intellectual property rights? That's not a judgment, by the way, so no flaming. Different cultures approach commerce differently - that's just fact.

I don't think setting up shop right next to them will help. It will just make your stuff more prominent and invite more theft. The only thing I can think of is just lock down the permissions on your products and hope they don't find a way around them.

I was...joking. I thought that was pretty obvious.

I`m most definitely not a full perm seller.

It seems they are using texture ripping programs and something similar to copybot, or perhaps even copybot itself though I heard that was no longer usable in SL.

Could be true, something to consider.

Thanks for noticing the core question of this post and answering it

" Originally Posted by Michael Bigwig
...I say you go to their shops, buy back what they stole, and re-resell it under your name..that'll show'em!! "


No. Not a bit!
It really makes them suffer and makes them amend their ways, even if they don't want to.

Doh.... i really need my afternoon caffeine and sugar hit right around now.

Exactly.



I`m a guy

IPs created IN Second Life can NOT be held in court if stolen and resold. The one or times this has happened (with the sex beds) they were essentially laughed at, even before they made it to court. I'm not talking about digital content in general...sorry, that wasn't clear.

Perhaps they are still trying to make it stick...

But if that lawyer jerk said the word "fantasy" ONE MORE TIME...I was going to crawl through the hard-wire and choke him.


BTW: you don't have to make your hair COPY...that will solve the problem in general--unless of course they are copybotting you...then, there is nothing you can do anyway.

I would never buy hair that was not copy/mod. Michael, what happens if you (or SL) messes up an edit?

yes you can.
any code or content you create is your intellectual property. This specially applies for code written by yourself. I can't find it right now but there has been a article on the net about the guy who originally created the Amsterdam Sim and the "sexgen platimum".

He filed a lawsuit over the his sexgen code being ripped and it is being taken to court and LL has been adviced to reveal the avatars real name and contact details in this matter.

So you can go after "copy cats". Thing is most people just don't bother with it.

I think 99% of the SL population is with you on that one.

You should watch (it might be on Youtube) that news broadcast over the SL sexbed thieving scandal...

It's pretty much a losing battle at the moment. SL isn't "real" in the eyes of the law...at least not yet.

Well the hours I spend making custom hair texture and clothing from scratch in photoshop is real and I have the PSD files to prove it.

Either way, they will have to take it down when i file the DMCA if it goes through. But getting things taken down by "law" is not the issue here.

The question is regarding whether they are stealing due to a cultural boundary and assuming I wont find them, and if I create a presence on their land will they quit stealing from me or are they just theives in general and will my setting up a shop in the midst of them be like giving them free candy.

I suppose you could be uber-careful. Personally, in the two years of editing and buying products, I've never had problems post edit.

*shrugs*

Yes, I feel your pain. But there's nothing you can do legally. Second Life is considered a "fantasy" platform, and all IPs created and sold within are just that..."fantasy."

I'm not saying I agree with this...I sell a lot of product, and I would take action too if I found someone copy/botting my stuff...and I--just like you--would be fighting a losing battle.

no it was trademark infringement aka the name sex-gen not the fact that the products were similar products.

Hmmm... do you know the names of the theives? I would assume that you've banned them from your sim, yes? I know that alts can just keep continuing, but you might as well ban the original thieves.

You might also put notecards in with your products, alerting consumers to the possibilities of forgeries out there; that you do NOT have shops on any of X sims; and that any products purchased not in your shops could have serious flaws.

I personally wouldn't put up a shop in the same mall/sim as those thieves... it would look weird, and consumers might see YOU as the thief, rather than the other way around. Just one girl's opinion though.

Is an AR applicable in this situation? Might as well, because the thieves might have stolen from other creators; continuing a file against them might spur LL into whatever action it would take (if any.)

Otherwise, I don't know. I've always worried about what I could do if I found the same thing happening to my stuff...