Thievery in foreign lands.

Just to be more concise than my previous post:

-- past experience shows that some cultures tolerate thievery, so putting a store among them will only draw attention and make them steal more

-- making your objection clear by filing and direct communication says that you have noticed and intend to make their lives difficult. they will stop and go after less fiesty targets.

Yes there is. Its MY art whether I also sell it in SL, turbosquid, etc. It is mine. Just like people have taken real world clothing logos and slapped them on their Sl clothing, if the real world copyright holder wanted to do something about it they could.

And DMCA`s really do work.

"Linden Lab will respond to allegations of copyright violations in accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). The DMCA provides a process for a copyright owner to give notification to an online service provider concerning alleged copyright infringement. When a valid DMCA notification is received, the service provider responds under this process by taking down the offending content."

Same arena of infringement correct? You'd be suing for the practically the same reason...violation of copyrighted material right?

I think although different examples, they are seen as the same in the eyes of real world courts.

I think Michael is just prodding the monkeys in the cage and waiting for a response.

Of course, he is dead wrong. ANYTHING you create that is a unique expression of an idea, in ANY medium..whether in print, on a vinyl record, on a CD, on a videotape, on film, or stored on a server on the internet...is your intellectual property and you have a right to protect it.

In SL, the "first line" of protection is your permissions settings. But if those are hacked/broken/compromised, you still have a right to protect your intellectual property. Even if you sold something full perms, if you can show you had an agreement with the purchaser to limit their rights in your property, you STILL can protect your rights.

It can be very time consuming and frustrating to do so, however. Real world lawyers don't come cheap.

A lot of countries have much looser IP laws than the US, and/or much looser enforcement of them. Therefore, the larger number of ripoff artists operating outside the US.

Would you like me to go over to their sim, fly over their store, and tow a banner that says "XXXX Sells Stolen Goods!" ? And I'll play your message on a bullhorn if you'll build it into a gesture. I work cheaper than an RL lawyer.

OK. I wish you luck.

I'm not trolling here...Jesus, you people just can't hear what you don't want to hear without getting your panties in a bundle.

I'm just telling you what I've seen and heard. Calm down. Just because I may be wrong, does not mean I'm trying to start trouble...you guys are drama queens.

Yeah I definitely ban the offenders

Thats very true i didnt think of that

I do always send AR`s too but I think they are worthless.



http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php

lol I don`t think you`re trying to start trouble at all.

I just dont agree with what you keep spewing. Many have been stolen from and filed a DMCA (which by the way stands for Digital Millennium COPYRIGHT Act) yet you keep saying "Sorry theres nothing you can do its fantasy".. Thats false. My art is my art, no one elses.

Just because I took my art and put it in SL does not make it free for anyone to take and redistribute, and if they do there are things I can do to have them taken down. And I will begin with filing a DMCA which protects me and my (copyrighted) art work.

So, Jesse, just a quick question, have you actually filed copyrights on all of your products?

You don't have to file copyrights, just put a copyright statement (even a one-liner in proper form) in with the product. You can actually file later if you need to.

Sorry - my post took a while because I got interrupted and I missed a lot of the ones that posted before me. Anyway, my question was kind of stupid in retrospect.



No prob.

This talk of lawsuits to enforce digital rights is probably moot. Without addressing the core issue of whether it will be successful (for the record, I agree with Michael Bigwig), I think it's important to look at the economics of a lawsuit. Say someone steals a hairstyle from you that you sell for 250L. Round it to $1.00 US. They sell 1000 copies. That's $1,000 dollars you are out. Say now they do it 20 more times. Now you are out 20k US. I'm trying to err on the side of inflating the damages. Expect to pay twice that if you have a case go all the way to trial, and even if you win, the chances of you being able to collect are very minimal. You'll probably spend less, because they will probably ignore you, but at the very least you are out a couple grand to get an award that is barely worth the paper its printed on. It's just not worth it in the VAST majority of cases.

No, but that`s not really an issue for me ATM, copyrights grant people the right to redistribute a work. As the creator, that right is mine upon creation.

I have thought about sending some of my things in but I`m not sure if it would help at all. DMCA`s work fairly well already.

Im sure there may be a possibility of someone taking my items and filing a copyright on them acting as if it is there work, but I have not been entirely concerned about that thus far. Maybe its something I will look into now.

Yeah, but Trout, someday SOMEbody will file a lawsuit. Even if the plaintiff loses, it would still be a landmark case in the history of SL, yeah? It will happen eventually. Just like eventually we will have real legal issues regarding land rentals/covenants/purchases. SL is too big (40,000 regular users!) to have us all running around lawless, save for the TOS. I'm not saying which way or the other I prefer; I'm just saying that it WILL happen, and it IS important, and people DO make their living here.

Most conflicts in SL would be so much clearer if there was a some sort of legal definition of what SL is.

Is SL another way to view and use the internet or is it a game?

If it's another way to view and use the internet then your designs should be protected.

If it's a game then you are playing the part of a designer and shopkeeper and the people who stole your designs are playing the role of thieves. In this case anything goes.

The definition of SL is not for us to decide and prob not even LL to decide. There would need to be some sort of test case.

It don't matter if someone steals your SL coding work or your websites php code or any other stuff you developed. You can sue for it. The court does not even have to see SL as a game or accpet the fact that the code was stolen in SL to reproduce your work. Only thing that matters in this case is that his code was stolen and that is intellectual property no matter on what platform.

Trademark and copyright law are different. That's what he was referring to. It's still not worth suing over. It's not economically feasible and it's likely to fail.

Personally, I think it has a lot to do with "he's never going to look here" thinking. Believing if you don't set up in German/Brazillian sims means less theft, obviously isn't working so far, is it? They can get away with it because the purchasers have no way to be familiar with your work. They don't know it's stolen. If you had presence there, the theft would be obvious. And most people, no matter what country they are from, are going to support thievery.

/me shakes head and gives up

And now to open another can of worms


From the TOS




This says to me that, anything you create in or upload to SL can be used by anyone within SL for any purpose.

there is a lawsuit, and it's not about the trademark - it's about the copyrighted itmes themselves.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20214184/

He's suing based on intellectual property rights of the scripting code and digital representations themselves.

Domaiv, not quite. That pertains to patent rights, and is aimed at further enforcing open source strictures. Jessy is more concerned with copyrights, completely different law.

That's nonsensical. Any trademarks, patents, copyrights, or trade secrets created and used in Second Life have the same legal standing as any real life IP, subject only to the contractual restrictions and grants of the SL Terms of Service (assuming that a court doesn't hold those to be invalid as has happened in the Michael Bragg case).

Whether it would be worth the money to go after a violator, in SL is another question. However, a DMCA take down notice does not require a lawyer to file.

Unfortunately no matter what you do this will still happen......

There is no copyright laws in China.... Thats why most money farmers for MMORPG's are Chinese.... It means LL cant do anything about it... It means.... LL Legally cant do anything about it... I think its the same with Brazil and Africa.... On the other side of things.... If you do this in Korea you will have your hands cut off...

Wonderful...

Its life though...


Oh... And Russia... =)

But if LL removes the products these people will go "Hey.... Your violating my national rights.... Your breaking the law!" Yes the servers are in America but the theft is happening in their country and since its not stealing in their country then its not theft... Basically honest people are stuffed over by lazy governments..

Just my piece..

edit:

Oh and one last thing - Its only has copy right on it if you write off with the designs and get copy write or a patent for it.... And thats about US$40 per item per country

What happens when a fashion trend sweeps the nation? A big name designer starts it, and it's copied and watered down until it's in all the Wal-Marts 2 years later made out of cheap cotton and (i'm sorry but) says Made in China (or Taiwan or wherever).
SL is always going to be a farm for the less creative to learn to steal from and water it down by selling on 512s with no ads and no real clientelle. The problem is that unlike reality, they are actually skipping the middleman and getting the designer stuff at no expense of their own, or labor. So what would someone like Versace do in RL to this besides sue every corner flea market on the planet? They would build up their niche and make their name so huge that even the people buying the fakes would want the real thing. In Sl you can't tell the difference between a 'fake' and the real thing. In the land of autonomy, who's going to know where you bought it right, so you have to strengthen your brand as much as possible. I think the reason you see these ripoffs in places associated with a specific or different culture is misleading. I've noticed in SL that if you go to a place that is typically off mainland and geared towards things like newbies, loud and obnoxious signage, rotating flying boxes, get rich quick schemes and scams, you almost always see it connected to some specific foreign to the US culture. Maybe it's just that in their minds this is a selling point, to draw in that demographic, by advertising that they are the so-n-so's. It's almost as if SL is drawing in a lot of 'foreigners' who see SL as a get rich quick scheme, and they prominently and proudly display their nationalities to attract others.
Some cultures just catch on that way...like some businesses appeal more to certain factions here in the states. So what i'm saying is that i think these thieves find it easier to put up their wares in sims that are less than professional from the get go, and i think that unfortunately these sims often cater to specific cultures, not the other way around. I also think that there's probably someone out there who approaches other players based on their prescribed nationalities and aiding them in these scams by encouraging things like the copybots. As in, hey i speak your language, wanna make some money, take this machine and do this and that, and viola. I know the Americans do it, but the minorities of SL like the Brazillians are more susecptible to it, because they are more apt to trust a native speaker. Would putting your product in the middle of their sims help? That's sort of like asking if every city should have a Rodeo drive. You want your product to be special, and you don't need to have a shop on every corner to make it so. I've always liked your products, and i seriously dislike running into the same stores everywhere i go in SL. People who are in the know, know or find out quickly, where to shop to get the good stuff. You should be after the bigger fish, not the parasites. We will keep coming back to your store as opposed to hunting down ripoffs of your things. I don't prescribe to the saying "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" because well...this isn't imitation. But until we are empowered to stop IP theft, i think you may have to look at it as such, fighting all that you can. There's no way you can open up a store next door to every person who steals from you. And you don't want in those crappy neighborhoods anyways do you? Sure- it would hurt them when people left their store to walk into yours but if they turned around, stole more, undercut you, and then moved on- you'd deeply regret it. Decide where to put your vendors/stores based on solid business practices, not culturally based ones!

I thought that too, I read that awhile back and was shocked. But when we had "linden answers" forum (was that the name?) i recall someone inquiring about this and a Linden explained it. I can`t quite remember what they said but it wasn`t what it seemed.

Unless the Linden himself didnt even understand it, which is quite possible.


On a slightly different topic, I can understand things you make exclusively for SL being looked at as a "joke" and not being covered by copyright as to many this is just a "fantasy game"... But when we are talking artwork created outside of SL that is brought into Sl then stolen and redistributed, that is not a joke, and that art is protected regardless of LL`s TOS because real world law overrides that.

But again.. I recall a linden explaining it and it made sense, I`ll see if i can dig it up.