Is it Safe to Have Therapy, Baby?

There has been a recent discussion about child avi behaviours, with adults (at least over 1 mimicking pre-teen characterizations and social interaction. It has also been suggested that this may well be a form of therapy - a "cathartic experience" - but one that poses dangers for the "child-adult". People use sl for numerous reasons. I needed a break from my stressful life - found a friend - and became "me" but on a computer screen. I admit, the thought of being a pre-teen holds absolutely no attraction for me and I also admit its presence in sl is one of teh reasons I would never admit to using sl to any people I know in the real world. But, is it therapeutic?
Non-child players are constantly being upbraided by others for "dissing" on child avis BUT it does seem alien to many of us - and, in many ways, a dangerous game to play.
How can pretending to be a child be of any use at all to an adult? We dont encourage that behaviour in the real world because it is against our principles of being adult, of undergoing the teen growth years, of becoming men and women. Without proper supervision, surely this is to be frowned upon. What do you think?

How can pretending to be a dragon, be of use to an adult. Or a cat, or a ferrett, or afairy, or an action hero, or...........? A lot of us are pretending to be something in SL. If it is giving us what we are looking for, be it comfort, joy or merely entertainment, does it really matter?

Being a creature or a myth does not have same "transference" that reverting to childhood implies. Perhaps it's inbuilt into our psyches as we are saddened and frightened by Alzheimer's and Dementia's drift towards childhood again "sans teeth, sans eyes, sans everything". My father died of early onset dementia and his final days, sinking into the helplessness of a child would present any child-avi with a conundrum - "do YOU really want to imitate THAT?"

Why not? There is a grading of degrees and levels involved?

I think that there are very few forumites who are qualified to venture an opinion on whether any of the roleplay in SL could be therapeutic. I also think that, in considering this question wrt child AVs, we will be apt to project our own semi-related life experiences onto the "class" of child AVs, which is sure to lead us astray.

The simple related question: "Do child AVs bother you, and if so, why do you think that is?" would be much more straightforward.
.

Back when I was much more solidly a kid AV I actually started a thread about the identity, therapeutic value, and comfort that comes along with your avatar of choice. (^_^)

For some, it's the hulking tough-guy they never were in school. For others, a fantasy creature not of this world. And, then there's the kids. Each one role fulfills a need and each person's needs are individual. (^_^)

For people who do feel the need to revert back to childhood, I see the goal of re-establishing an innocence (or even innocence lost, depending on how they RP, though much more dangerous ground) they find lacking in the today and now. Truth be told, we are not the kids we used to be. Some people are running and screaming from [Get up - go to work - eat - sleep] and really just want to finish their day by headbutting someone in the kneecaps, blowing a raspberry, and turning somersaults for the rest of the day. =^-^=

Just for a laugh... Here's a quote from my old "Comfortable" thread. The meat of my own state is somewhere in the middle. (^_^)y

Therapy? Who needs therapy? People keep giving me cookies!

That's right... I do it for the cookies!

All of us need some escape in our lives in order to survive the day to day adult responsibilities and stresses. Additionally, we already know that we need to keep 'fun' in our lives in order to stay mentally and emotionally healthy. That, in and of itself, will answer the question.

However, to take the question a step further -- How can pretending to be a child be therapeutic for healing of old emotional wounds? All of our life experiences affect us, but the childhood ones are the core of our being. The theory is that if the childhood had bad experiences, you may be able to rewrite the base programming by having lots of good childlike experiences. How much of this really works or not, I do not think anyone can say except the ones doing it.

How can pretending to own 100 evening gowns and 200 pairs of shoes be of any use? That would be frowned upon in RL as well.....especially in this economy.

Fwiw, I have a child AV that I use very occasionally, and I've discovered one not particularly psychological benefit.

Having an inventory of 1000 or so, she's a good explorer. And I don't use mouselook, so she is constantly in view. She's a visual reminder to keep a sense of wonder about what I see. My child AV is more vulnerable to feel gusts of spontaneous enthusiasm

Also, exploring with her is cheap. She never spends much of anything, since she has a very small allowance (LOL!).
.

I'm sorry for your Loss, But the Difference we are Discussing is that your father Had no Choice. I'm sure you met his needs with all the love, tenderness and care he lavished on you at the time in your lives when the roles were reversed. I am also Sure from my Own Convictions that On some Level he KNEW of the care and love you showed him, and he was deeply grateful it.

What we ARE talking about in SL is people who relieve the stresses of every day life by trying to recapture some of the Feelings of Magic and Wonder at the world, Some of the Long Buried Innocence of thier youth. A Time when the whole world was thiers, and No one expected them to shoulder the heavy Burdens of Adulthood. Some people WANt to Feel the warmth, and Love of being Taken Care of as they were when they were a child If Just for an Hour.

Sigmund Freud Once said, "Not everything is Sex, sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar"
I think for the Most Part,, what we have here is a Cigar.

Angel.

Jig, I think people are overanalysing all this stuff a bit... it may have these connotations for some, but not everybody.


Sort of like the following...

Analyst: "Do you like eating strawberries?"

Subject: "Yes I do"

Analyst: "Why do you like them?"

Subject: "Well, they are kinda good... the taste, I guess?"

Analyst: "But what Attracts you to their flavour? Do you somehow intimately connect with the fruit by destoying it, orally? Do you discover a kind of intimacy, perhaps something you lacked in your formative years, between yourself and the strawberry in its final moments? Oh just confess it: is it a Vore fetish?"

Subject: "I never really thought about it, but, yeah I guess there is something deeply wrong with me..."

Analyst: *furiously scribbles notes on clipboard for later dissertation*

* * * * *

I've been my usual Desmond self, am sometimes a small rabbit, sometimes I have cat ears and I've even been known to be Young Desmond now and again (though last I checked I lost the avatar).

The small rabbit is best for Serious Meetings. It's VERY hard to carry on a deeply serious, hard edged discussion with a forest creature covered in soft, downy fur. If I'm not in the mood for 'too serious' expect the tiny rabbit to appear. He has spectacles just like Usual Desmond the land baron, and the same waistcoat, just smaller. But no pants. grin

The cat ears are kind of random, but sometimes you just feel catlike.

As for Young Desmond, well, it's one thing to go skating around with friends as a stuffy, boring land baron. But quite another to be twelve and skating with friends... a bunch of friends took off as kids once and it was a blast ~ Sigmund Freud not invited! Then after a while you do something else.

A friend of mine is doing a 19th century Port Shanghai region (Totallunar Eclipse, Steelhead) and if I ever get *any* kind of break, a scrappy Young Desmond with big dreams might appear there

I don't have much of a 'backstory' but everyone knows Desmond's future ~ this might be the *only* way I get a break from heavy responsibilities now and then. If I can pull it off, my only personal rule for the character will be "no $L transactions at all" (well, maybe just the starting avatar and occasional screenshots, that's it).

There is nothing in SL that is a real childlike experience ( I am a real parent in RL)...

Lets see these kids build complex builds, script, edit notcards, setup AOs, run sims, run business, make cloths using complex photoshop programs, make sculpties and sculp maps using said programs, write articles, drive cars, build cars and so on and so on yet can't speak in a legible manner.

These parents don't have to deal with trying to get the kid to go to bed, take a bath, worry about them breaking them selfs, sitting by them all night when they get sick, freak out when the disappear in a mall for a few seconds, worry about them getting kidnapped, trying to get them to clean up their rooms, discipline them, try to deal with their temper tantrums (and no SL tantrums are nothing like RL one's) and pretty much every other real life part of a real kids life. Hell, they don't even waste time teaching them to talk. I have yet to see any "parent" in SL actually try and correct their kids speech. Oh yeah, and whats with all these 3-4-5 year olds roaming all over the grid without their parents unsupervised? Why are these kids left alone when the parents are offline? Oh yeah, thats RP of a real kid........

It is disrespectful to all of us real parents to call anything in SL therapy for a issues with past childhood. Lets see one accredited therapist thats whiling to go public stand up and say, "yes, this is the way for proper therapy for such people".

What bothers me the most about this RP is all the BS excuses and justifications they come up with for RPing a kid. I heard many and very rarely do I hear one that is reasonable. The ones that try to justify it the most are the one's I take for pedophiles. The ones that just come out and say "it's fun to play a kid in SL" are the one's I will take more seriously. People that make up excuses for their fetish just annoy me..

I like shemales. Is it because I had some strange childhood experience with one? do I feel I should explore some thoughts because I seen one in RL? Hell no, I just like to shag shemales. The beauty of a women and the man parts needed for the job. What more can you ask for? It gets me off (not just sexually). Shemales are hot to me and thats all the excuse I should need.

Seriously if you had a bad childhood and it still effects your adult life then seek professional help. If your therapist suggests SL then they would setup controlled sessions in SL and moderate your use under their control.

If the "kids" and "parents" of the kids just cut the BS and learn when to RP and not to RP they would make life in SL better for all of them (and the rest of us). Trying to force your RP on others as these kids constantly do is not helping their cause. Much like that bloodlines crap. Keep your RP to the people that want to do it and leave it at that.

I am not against any RP in SL until it becomes so damn annoying that I would rather deal with naked noob guys with erect bits asking me for a quickie. This fake kid speak has surpassed that level of annoyance and it right up there with the bloodlines crap.

Then again I generally ignore anyone talking in text type also. Seriously people you are on a full keyboard. You look like a complete retard typing "how r u" when we all know a full keyboard is in front of you and there is no limit on letter space. anytime I see u and r and similar young teenager pops in my mind and I have no more desire to deal with it.

Just like when I am mentally prepared for some adult activity then see a kid skipping across my screen... So much for that...... I come to SL to get AWAY from kids because it is an adult grid. RP is based on imagination and when you come to SL for adult stuff (sexual or not) seeing a kid skip around really deters it. Thats why kid avatars should not be allowed off PG land in my opinion. If they want to venture to mature and adult land then put on your grown up avie, do what you need to do. Keep your kid avie in your own sims and in areas where that RP is acceptable and PG areas. I do think most "kids" do that but obviously not enough of them or these threads would not happen over and over.


Anyway thats my perspective. Biased and narrow minded? Maybe, but I don't hide or justify my fetishes with mental disorders. I don't force my RP on others like "kids" do, and that is the main reason people complain about it in my opinion. Everytime I see a kid roaming around an area that kids should not be in my own kid pops into mind and I start wondering why that kids parents are not monitoring that little 4 year old and then BAM, my mind is back to RL, the last thing I want when I go to SL.

Are there also unreal parents in RL?
Seriously, you got more issues then people with child avatars

As for child avatars themselves: Why not? People can play dragons, ferrets, barbies, kens, so why not children? Your world, your imagination. But also my world my imagination. So if I would choose to play a child avatar, and that would get your mind to your RL, too bad for you. If you want to live a SL life where everything pleases you, and you cannot meet an avatar that offends you, download opensim and install your own private sim. Or fork over 295 dollars each month for your own sim in SL. And stay on that sim, so others cannot be offended by you just as you get offended by them

You could always RP a kid in RL, that works - just look at Michael Jackson!

I see you didn't read all my post or can't understand it.

Also, my kid in RL is well behaved, smart and is well taken care of... So how do I have more issues?

Edit: I never said anything about them being offensive, I said they are annoying. Don't attempt to put words in my mouth.

and How do people get offended by my normal human female avatar that I am?

I wouldn't even venture to guess about it.......I don't 'understand' it for myself.....but I'm not about about to pass any kind of judgement on the masses. I have been annoyd by child AV's simply because, in general....bratty little spoiled kids throwing tantrums in shops, tends to annoy me But, like IRL....I ignore it.....or remove myself from the offending party.

I've had some interesting chats with my cuz about it......she graduated with her Masters in psychology and she always has some insightful observations.....but even she doesn't presume judgement so easily. It's a big world out there and we are indeed complex critters....so....if it happens to be therapeutic for anyone to do what they do in SL.....then good on em. If it happens to be dangerous......then I guess that's the chance people take in acting out whatever it is they're acting out.

For myself....I don't RP anything. Now.....can a play a video game as a child character.....hell yeah.....remember Zelda? loved that game! In a game setting, I have no issue because the character is defined and I'm jumping in it's skin for a while to reach an objective. But I can't really 'pretend' just to pretend...it's not me.....I haven't pretended on that level probably since the last time I picked up a barbie doll. But I can write......I could write just about any character one could dream up.....my imagination is well honed.....it's just not a part of SL for me.

Many don't, though.

For you, running a '12-year-old' avatar may be a once-in-a-while, break-in-the-routine sort of thing.

But for many, the choice of avatar is....less casual. More violently defended. More...emotionally significant.

I tend to see these as different situations, and I don't think I'm alone.



(That doesn't mean that I would vote to disallow child avatars. But, inevitably, we all make some inferences about people we meet based on their choice of how to present themselves [in non-virtual as well as in virtual life]. And yes, I see some differences between people who occasionally try out a child avatar and people who feel they must appear as a child avatar, and who angrily denounce anyone who feels this is a choice that merits thought.)

Yeah! Just like the dragons, ferrets, horses and various animals that go SHOPPING or TALK(!), humans that FLY (omg!), Drow showing up at clubs being friendly with all species (furrealz), dancing houseplants (ok I just know that one but still..), women dancing for hours on high heels with no blisters (like totally superhuman) and and.. Well, SL in general! Awful ain't it?

Ummm, the title of this thread is based on therapy. People don't play those roles based on a therapy justification. Also I have yet to find anyone of those avatars try to push their RP on me. They talk in normal language. Also those are more "adult" roles.. So whatever.

*warning...kind of long*

Lord, this topic has been done to death.

However, I think this time I will offer my comments; from three different perspectives:

As a licensed therapist in practice for 12 years,
As a 3 year resident of SL, and
As mother to 2 adult children.

As a family therapist:

First let me say that I was lucky. My brother and I had a lovely childhood in which we were allowed to be children. We had several loving adults in attendance and never had to worry about adult things until we entered college (bro) and the military (me). I got to play, skip, dance and sing; be a fully engaged child.

Some people aren't as lucky as me. I have several clients who had to be "adults" at a very young age; one as young as 6. These people had parents who were addicts or just not fit, and they had to take care of younger siblings and often their own parents.

What can be extremely therapeutic for these folks is to allow them to do childlike things. We sit on the floor and color. Bang drums, play games (board and electronic), play with Barbie's, etc. Sometimes while we do these things we talk, sometimes we don't. I follow their lead. And I can assure you, MANY have had breakthroughs because of this therapy.

Now, would I recommend SL and playing a child Avatar to one of these clients? I don't know. I think for it to be therapeutic, it would have to be closely monitored. I don't discount the potential value but for me in my practice, it's not an option.

As a Mom:

OK. After the age of about 3 years old, my children spoke in complete sentences. So when I meet a child Avi who appears over that age speaking in that odd "baby talk" it strikes me as silly and rather repugnant.

As a SL resident:

In general I say let people play how they want. I mean, I like to RP a Vampire every now and then. Some people think that's strange. Your world, your imagination. For whatever reason people want to play kids, (and I will be honest and admit that I personally don't "get it" I will never begrudge them the right to do so.

*** The only REAL problem I have with child Avi's is when they try to draw me into their RP. I don't mean the "kids" who are out with their "parents" at a mall or something. I mean the ones who are alone or in a group and come up and try to engage me. I find that to be rude and bothersome.

Personal example: I participate in the BDSM lifestyle here. When I am with my two girls, unless we are at a BDSM themed sim, store, club, or some other related venue, you will NEVER see me with my pets leashed and kneeling at my feet. I don't believe in trying to draw other people into my personal kink (or RP) IT'S RUDE.

I'd very much like the same consideration from the children Avi. But, I'd also like that from other BDSM'ers too. Seeing someone drag a leashed submissive around say, a hair store, annoys the heck out of me. I use the MUTE button; ALOT.

My 2 c. Sorry so long.

Thank you. What you said was pretty much what I was saying/thinking. Hearing it from a actual licensed therapist is good.

I agree, as I said in my first post, is would be carefully monitored and controlled otherwise it could do more damage than help. Just imagine if the person playing the kid got so attached to their parent and all the sudden the parent disappears from SL for whatever reason. That could be disastrous.

...what Desmond said.

Ya, I've known some kinds who have gotten a lot out of it, in a therapeutic sort of fashion. Including yours truly with my SL family (and likewise for the adults n that family situation). Some of it's like what Littleme said. Still.... the world as a whole is not a therapeutic environment.

Good post. FWIW, I am usually pretty quiet in stores. oftentimes just flying about, seeing what's there, and heading out. I'm not one for RPing in what I view as non-RP spaces.

Yes, I agree. But the same could be said for the lovelorn or lonely, who come into SL, or any online environment looking for love; a human connection. Many find it and lose it in this way. We've all heard the stories about the online lover who just disappeared. Or disappeared and later re-appeared as an Alt. (UGH) I myself have experience being lied to and have felt RL pain over an online relationship.

So take this potential heartache and then throw in the added complication of having a mild-moderate mental illness, or maybe just your every day, garden variety, low grade depression or anxiety. The potential for real, RL consequences shoots way up there.

We, all of us, are broken in some way. For those of us who are lucky enough to be able to manage our brokenness, the internet and all it offers can be wonderful. For those of us who don't manage so well, it can even be potentially dangerous. Sadly.