Shadows and lighting update

Windlight IS faster, always, if you've the hardware for it. Noticeably so. And this new shadow-draft version is still waaay off. By the time it's out, having the hardware necessary will be again almost old. Windlight doesn't require new things, it just requires that if you use old things they be of high-quality gaming persuasion. Which makes sense

By the time the shadow-draft makes it into even a first look viewer, it will likely be the same.

It's already been stated that this could violate licenses and such.

However, if anyone is confident that hosting a compiled version would not be violating any licenses or rules, but does not have the space, I'm willing to host it on my own website.

I've 5 gigs of space and am currently using about 5 megs. I think that should leave *plenty of space for a compiled shadow-draft thingy.

no1 knows vc++ 2005?

there are tuns of link errors, maybe there source code is borked or they've missed a file

it would benefit allot of people and vc++ n00bs if someone could upload the new shadows viewer to some upload site (www.megaupload.com springs to mind), jsut zip it up and upload it and post the link

edit: sorry for the double post, i did press edit but it made a new thread

If you upload it to mega-upload and password the zip file then it should be ok

also how is it violating terms? nicholaz and people have uploaded there own viewer

Because a license for the shadow-draft source hasn't been fully written up as far as I know, and it hasn't been released fully.

Nicholaz and them have used source that has license restrictions, and it might be different for a not-yet released version or something.

(I'm really just guessing here)

It is impossable to compile the SL source code, there are to many errors and unless you are an experienced programmer dont bother. shame cus i REALLY wanted 2 test this and see what it looks like on my city

I'm assuming this is wrong, since Kitty got it working. Maybe we can persuade her to share =P

i think its fake, there is no way of forcing it 2 compile or build an exe file for that matter

hope that SL has this in someday soon tho for real

You think..it's fake? OK, now you're back to the old Chaos I know and..well..don't love, but that's not the point.

Mate, it's real, you're just not going about it right in all likelihood.

yeh sorry, i just get really fustrated when i cant do something that everyone else can seem 2, kinda makes me feel left out and behind, i WILL make this work even if it means i have 2 buy a new PC (i have a good one now tho)

like with ALL of lifes challenges i NEVER give up. just thought it might make it easier for me (and a few other people) if someone uploaded the required and compiled files we can just have the rest allready installed (like an RC viewer) and just over write the files

Well..only person I've seen using it that I know of is Kitty actually, so 'everyone else' is rather limited.

And as said way above, you need nVidia 8XXX or 9XXX(?) to run this thing period. If you've got that and a decent CPU, you should technically be able to handle it.

I'm still hoping someone comes along with the compiled version too

If you'll notice, Nicholaz doesn't distribute a whole viewer, he just distributes a different .exe that you have to drop in with an existing installed viewer. You can distribute what's based on the code, but all the Linden artwork etc, is not redistributable without a commercial license.

Also, the viewer has to match the one it's based on. You can't drop a Nicholaz WL viewer into a pre-WL installed viewer, it won't work.

And that's the same problem here... I could hand out the actual executable (not a very good practice to encourage in any case), but then it still wouldn't work. I tried dropping it into the RC folder, but it just hung on start-up and eventually crashed.

I know others redistributed it whole too, but unless a Linden says "we don't care, go ahead" I'll stick to what the license says you can and can not do.

I wish it was fake.

That would mean I have enough Photoshop skill to turn the before into the after all by myself . I wouldn't even be able to make a fake shadow under a prim box in SL, let alone on that level .

If you never compiled anything before then this is going to be non-trivial and frustrating.

I'll have a peek in the morning to see if I can just get a list of files to combine out of the separate things you download, combined with the compiled one, to make something that works since that's essentially what you do after it compiles.

Well...hmmm..any chance you'd post step-by-step instructinos on how to compile and get it running at all, then? I know that's a bunch of work, so I'm really not expecting a yes, but I can still hope for the moment XD

I can help you with in-world fake shadows if you like.

I never said anything about Windlight in my post. That is a whole other matter, I agree Windlight with everything turned off does *not* equal pre windlight.

I was just pointing out to people that they aren't being forced to upgrade their video card. They can not have shadows and be pretty much where they are at.

People seem to have this preconception that visual quality should continue to progress while their video card stays the same, with no loss of framerate. It just doesn't work that way. You can't get something for nothing. Want shadows? More power is needed. Either frame rate will drop, or GPU power must increase.

I don't believe that to be the case, Darien - I think we can accept progress so long as there are officially supported viewers that are truly optional. There is no reason why they can't support an official branch of 1.18.x in addition to the 1.19 and 1.20. 1.18.x still works and it gives more than adequate performance for people with lower end cards. People that WANT the extra visuals are free to shell out the cash to get the hardware that can handle the game.

Many people were very frustrated in the transition to 1.19 and some have left. I was very sad to lose a good tenant this way. He was tired of trying to reinstall and then crashing. By the time I knew of it, there was nothing I could do, and suggesting him to use Nicholaz' 1.18 viewers fell on deaf ears.

No, not all. I don't expect to be able to move forward without upgrading, but if the current state is acceptable to me, I think I should be able to stay there. If it weren't for Nicholaz I would not be using SL. None of the 19 viewers worked for. His BE-w works like a champ. I couldn't care less about the pretty skies and shiny water, those 2003 graphics that seem to bother some peole look great to me.

I think LL should maintain a reasonable backward compatability, whatever is technically feasable. Not to do so, in my opinion is not a good business plan if they want SL to be used by a wide audience of "regular people".

Step by step instructions how to get the SL source compile and work are posted on the open source part of official SL wiki, iirc.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile

specific instructions for vs2005:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_%28MSVS2005%29

I've been there, and it isn't specific. Well.. it is to people who've done it before, but to me it's rather vague.

In other words, I need something better

Well, the latter page literally tells you where to download the extra components from, where to copy them etc. If that still isn't specific enough, i'm afraid this leaves me with mental image of person asking to be instructed how to perform a surgery but giving you a blank stare when they hear "take a scalpel..."

In other words, the way SL viewer source is distributed isn't really suited for someone who's never done it (compile a program etc) before. There is some more detailed instructions on the page that deals with compiling the extra libraries with the earlier version of visual studio, but these too require at least some basic understanding how the whole thing is supposed to work... perhaps some tutorials for beginners would be better point of start?

At first I didn't think You understood what I was saying..but you came around

yes, I'm basically asking for a literally step by step guide for how to do this. Not how to do it with just any old thing, but with this one specific thing. That way things don't need to be explained all that much as to WHY it's done, just HOW to do it.

By learning how, personally, I can learn why and go from there if I ever need to do it again. Because by then I'd have a little bit of experience into the method.

Not asking to be taught all about compiling programs and how to do it in any situation, just what to do specifically. As in 'click this, type this in. Then click this and type *this* in. Good, now close the program, and open this other one that you got from HERE. Now click this and type _this_ in. Very good, now hit "GO YOU MUTHERFFHJHFHGJGF" and you're done!"

That's the kind of thing I'm asking for

Of course, it was a request, not a demand. If no one posts it, I'm not going to get hissy (Not publicly anyway.. I do really really wanna try this ), I'll just wait until they release an actual viewer.

Hmm shaadows will be good , but I'm thinking we need to pick up some serious speed somewhere else real soon, and only way I can think of is to somehow stop downloading textures continually and repeatibly. We pay for high speed internet to choke itself while it runs SL

This entire discussion neglects the most important issue:

Premium Accounts.

The decline, as well as the numbers of new premium members decline. The hours spent online decline. Everything of importance declines.

The only logical conclusion is: LL fails to match existing customer demands.

Considering the fact that they "improved" the graphics a lot (while it is a matter of taste if someone likes WindCrap or not) these "improvements" - taking the stats seriously - not only fail to attract new customers, but distract existing customers as well.

Under this circumstances it makes no sense to discuss any other new hardware killing "shiny" at all. And the "whiners" are proven to be right - by LL own statistics.

Yeah, well, because this entire discussion had nothing to DO with premium accounts. Sorry, but not every post has to revolve around how LL's losing business.

To quote another forum user...

Pony!

People will complain about anything really, a developer doing his job? It's silly. He's talking about a project that is in the long term, two to three years down the line, by which time the card he specifies as a minimum will be totally obsolescent. Technology continually advances a rapid rate, by the time a graphics card becoming 'main stream', it is already usually 12 months behind the cutting edge. LL, nor the developer, are saying "You must go out and buy a $300 graphics card", what he is doing is speculating with a system on a card that will be two to three years old by the time such a system /may/ be implemented.

Once you buy a system, if you intend to use current and future software, you are a participant in the technology race and it really is expected that every three to five years you will need to overhaul parts of your hardware to continue to enjoy a good computing experience. If you plan ahead and buy well, you can get a really good lifespan out of a graphics card. I had a Voodoo III card that pretty much ran everything I wanted for about six years. It was a little more pricey when bought, but when that cost is divided over the amount of time I used it for, it didn't amount to all that much.

People are saying that Second Life isn't aimed at hardcore gamers, but it is one of the most intense and draining programmes on your system and your graphics hardware. It only make sense to look at purchasing a beefier graphics card and /when/ purchasing, not buying the cheapest thing on the market as you are effectively going from one obsolete card to another and will only have a poor experience of Second Life.

Personally I'm excited that this is the next stage for Second Life graphics and that the developers are beginning to tinker with it. Second Life graphics look outdated now, so to me, thinking big and in the longer term is a good sign. I use Second Life to create 'art' (i.e. I'm a snapshot reworker ) so to me, dynamic shadowing and better quality of lighting would be a huge boon and I really hope they continue to push this.

I'm just going to have to start budgeting for my next upgrade, it'll probably be about due around the time such a thing comes to inclusion within a client.

Oh, dear, if there were no Premium users, you won´t be able to discuss all the breathtaking "progress". Obviously you misunderstand that SL is a business, not a playground for "cutting edge" fanatics.

It is ALL about Premium Accounts, and every "progress" which causes decline is another nail in the coffin of this nice little network named "Second Life". And the latest graphic "progress" surely was another nail.