The Lord of the Flies - Child AVs and the Nursery Syndrome

Well, I did just wake up a few minutes before. "Fun" discussion to wake up to.

This



I do hope you are being sarcastic... I can't honestly believe that segregation or banning of any type of avatar would accomplish anything positive.
I do sympathize about "people continue to disrespect childhood and break laws", after a 15 minute argument with a child avi over their belief that they have every right to be in our BDSM sim just because we have Money Trees, not a care in the world that just a couple meters from both trees are sexual BDSM furniture.

I have no problem with anyone that wants to be what makes them happy in SL, but please respect the next person and don't go where its obvious that rules will be broken for you to be there.

Honest Mari - I really dont want to upset you. I really think you are unique in this arena. And definitely a much needed resource.
But isn't there a "childhood's end"?

Please do not project your discomfort onto LL. They are a COMPANY, not a charity; we do not need to take care of them. If LL has no problem with child AVs (and they have made it clear that they do not), why are you trying to put words in their collective mouth?
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I don't think that people using child avs like Mari, in a kid community, are all that concerned about LL and their goals of attracting corporations and such. They are doing SL their way, which they've been doing all along. I doubt if they'll be running over to any big corporation sims to see what LL is trying to do there. I do see what you said about you have no problem with people playing kid avs seriously, like Mari. I also see Ayesha's situation which was just wrong and yeah, should have banned them, the behavior was inappropriate for the event. I just don't see that the two situations, serious kids and LL's corporate goals have that much to do with each other.

I think this is what it is all about.

It's not child avs that are the problem: it is ANYONE who is being inconsiderate about the activities and sensibilities of others. A child avi showing up in a BDSM sim has a point and an agenda: s/he is deliberately being provocative. A furry DELIBERATELY showing up in an RP sim that excludes furries has an agenda: s/he is being provocative. A D/s couple RPing BDSM in a PG sim has an agenda: they are being provocative.

There are a variety of ways of dealing with such situations, and the first recourse should always, of course, be a polite and private IM requesting conformity to whatever the rules of that sim are. The respect has to work both ways.

Jig, the issues you raise here are not exclusive to kiddie avs. By focussing on them, I think you are demonstrating that you have an agenda: YOU are being deliberately provocative.

I really don't care about LL's business demeanor. If they are are 'serious' then good for them, shut up and be serious where I can't see you. But when they start letting us know what a serious business they are, then they start getting me thinking it's time to move on. I'm here for a game, not for a serious business. If I want to deal with someone's serious business during my free time I'll stay late at work. Their whole serious behavior the past year or so has me spending a whole lot of time in OpenSim as it is. Much more seriousness won't be needed for me to complete the move.

Patasha

I do NOT call on a ban of child avs. If you think I have then I have been misread. Is it because unlike the original poster who I refer to I am NOT a child av that I have aroused such indiganation?

How can we "ban" "threads like these"? It's a forum for Christ's sake. I don't ask for justification. I want EXPLANATION - it's a different thing!

Justify myself? In sl I am myself, a bit of a bit*h, lotsa issues, good and honest friend, committed to the arts, self-healing. In sl, I am NOT a nosy, noisy, precociously, offensive sh*t disturber as I tend to be in real life. In sl, butter wouldn't melt in my mouth.

I also pay my dues in sl and promote the expression of all artists in sl. I have credibility around here. Ask the 200 or so artists I have bought from or exhibited. Or the many people who have met me over the years in sl. They'll tell you I'm "ok".
(In sl, I even have a "daughter" (she presents herself as over 18 which makes me a VERY young "mother" - I just don't advertize it - errr ... )
In my real life, I promote the education of young women (and men), I am actively involved in urging birth control and sex education in schools, I am consistently advising on the arts in education and social venues. I have sat on arts boards and been a "paid up" legitimate artist in the best way I ever could be (albeit a little the worse for wear)

This!

There are far worse things in SL than child avatars..and that is not saying they are bad at all..I know a few and just like anyone they just want to enjoy the immersion..Some had great childhoods and miss them..Whats wrong with wanting to relive that?

In my opinion people that are worried about child avatars need to get the mind out of the gutter and focus on the majority of none incidents instead of the actual one time that made the news..


The fact is some people cannot leave other peoples immersion alone..
There is a neat little additive that LL has provided us with that is supposed to help cure something that we may not like..It is called a mute button..If they decide not to use it then the problem is their own problem and not the worlds around them..

Don't like child avatars then mute every one you see..It's just that easy..
Don't like furries it's there for that..Don't like people that wear feathers in their hair..Look a mute button..wow and it's free too..

If something bugs someone so much that they feel it is F'ing up their SL..Then mute it..
No people have to go get support and start a freaking movement to stop it because they feel it is in every ones best interest..

If people don't like it mute or find a platform that is less offensive to you..

The only people that bug me in SL are the ones that decide their immersion is to judge everyone elses immersion..

Jig, I think you missed her point, it was for you to justify your avatar and your avatar's behavior, not YOU as a human being.

I think the idea was.. oh say for example.. you were have group memberships listed in your profile that some people would find offensive and racist.. how would you justify those groups.. that type of thing.

Patasha

I think it is best to respond to the question or not post in this thread at all. Insisting the OP justify her SL has nothing to do with the question. It is just being used as a smokescreen to derail and incite.

Play nice kids

To the OP: from your comments, you are clearly a child hater ("germ factories I must avoid..." really???), so yeah, I think it's safe to assume there are things you don't get.

Define child. Are you also including possible teenage avatars in there as well?

I think you're way off on this one Jig.

Get a job in a kindergarten and you'll find that statement to be true. Most people (adults and kids) will have a period of going through one bug after the other before the immune system catches up.

I think the reason why this issue comes up again is that some people in kid avatar appearance simply don't seem to know when to snap out of it, and realize that their role play is not welcome or appropriate.

By wearing a kid avatar at any time in combination with kids speak, gestures, giggling and generally kid like behavior mixed into settings where, if we were to take your role serious, you would have been sent right back to school or your parents and been put to bed for the night, you approach the role of a griefer.

I think you Mari in particular, as the perhaps the most outspoken person representing these avatars, have a job to do to educate your own on this. I have too often see kid avatars stepping way out of and beyond the "kick the can" and "play unencumbered with the responsibilities of adulthood" roles that are described on the Child Avatar wiki page (primarily maintained by you.) http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Child_Avatars

I have nothing against people (role) playing kids in SL, but if the person behind the avatar wants to venture into the grown up sphere that is not role play, then grow up, put on a grown up appearance and act the age you actually are. If you did, I am sure the controversy around such avatars would diminish substantially.

Don't know and don't care, and no.

It probably does. I know people who say furry avatars make them uncomfortable, or goreans, or avatars presenting as gangsta types, or pregnant avatars, or aggressively sexualized ones.

Disney makes a fortune from helping people do that. For a lot of people the whole cartoon avatar thing seems like regression, for that matter... SL is "just playing with dolls" after all. Other people embrace that, and play a ferret because it lets them act silly in a way they can't as a human.

I'm not into the kid toon thing. It sometimes makes me uncomfortable when its taken to an extreme. But that's me, being uncomfortable, not them. I'm not gonna project my discomfort onto them.

And the same can be said for Neko's running around meowing constantly, Vampires wanting to bite everyone who enters a sim, Dragons who wander around mixed use sims in huge avatars that block other people's views, Gangsta talking gangsta-speak and keeping it real everywhere they go, Goreans who have their kajira's on leashes out shopping, etc, etc, etc....

Instead of picking out one particular group to vilify maybe a less targeted post about "People hijacking sims with their out of place roleplay" would have met with less blow-back.

Patasha

Yes, you should, just as if they showed up in capes and fangs and went around biting people, or in military or police uniforms with guns and started acting like the SL Police, or in utilities and scrubs with butterfly nets harassing non-humans as "SL animal control".

People who act up inappropriately for the event should be dealt with, no matter what front their using to get their lulz. That kind of behaviour isn't limited to kid toons, and it's quite possible they were only doing it as kid toons because they couldn't get away with it as SL Police any more...

This isn't real life. Everyone knows that there is an adult behind the child, often an adult even older than we are. I don't feel constrained in any way in the presence of a child nor does anyone I know. If you or others do, that simply reflects your inability to act upon this realization.

Similarly, to "play" a child doesn't restrict the avatar except with regards to sexual play or access to areas because of the prejudices of the residents that control them. Those prejudices are a problem, not the distrust for a child avatar that such people may harbor because of them.

I luff doze! Dey mek me heppy!

Lias did, though.

Really? I knew there must have been a good reason Lias was in my bozo filter.

Not only has she advocated the total ban of child avatars from SL, even as recently as the first page of this thread, but she has also gone on record for advocating forcing LL's hand in the matter by organizing parties of people who quickly get naked around child avatars, take screenshots, and AR the child "for being in a sexual context".

Oh know I remember who Lias is.. okay.. yeah, that whole thread about that during the demo weekend of Zindra. Yep that was bozo-filter material alright.