Second Life Forums Archive - Is this GAMING or GAMBLING?

Wren Palen

Registered User

Join date: 3 Jul 2007

Posts: 204

06-13-2008 12:42

when i started this thread back in the day, you paid in to the machine, and received a cash prize, which could (of course) be traded for real money.

GAMBLING.

i don't know what the prizes are for this game now, 5 months later, but if they are not for cash, then why did this guy necro post with a complaint it was gambling? he didn't give a location of the game to check it out.

if you receive a prize that is transferable, that prize could be sold for money, so that still falls under the guise of gambling... in a money laundering kind of way.

_____________________

"I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best." — Marilyn Monroe

3Ring Binder

always smile

Join date: 8 Mar 2007

Posts: 15,028

06-13-2008 12:43

when i started this thread back in the day, you paid in to the machine, and received a cash prize, which could (of course) be traded for real money.

GAMBLING.

i don't know what the prizes are for this game now, 5 months later, but if they are not for cash, then why did this guy necro post with a complaint it was gambling? he didn't give a location of the game to check it out.

if you receive a prize that is transferable, that prize could be sold for money, so that still falls under the guise of gambling... in a money laundering kind of way. last time i played a random game, the prize was transferable.

_____________________

it was fun while it lasted.
http://2lf.informe.com/

Kain Cleaver

Registered User

Join date: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 178

06-13-2008 15:59

From: Colette Meiji

Hmmm are you sure there is no money payout involved?

I'm looking at this Deal thing on SL exchange

its sold in a 20 pack box for 40,000$L !!!!!!!!!!!!

One thing for sure the creator isn't the one gambling.

But maybe the buyer is.

Money payout and payin is involved. the game is a skill game and is allowed in secondlife dispite what certain haters say. anyone who has gotten in trouble with the game was due to an inexperianced linden. and the issue was resolved as soon as that linden had looked up the info about the game.

so no.. DEAL , Mindspin, Scratch it, Nudgers, DEAL XL are not considered gambling in secondlife. and yes the 20 pack is 40,000 but discounted because the normal price for a single machine is 2500 - 10,000 off of the full price.

3Ring is a lil scorned from me being next to her land apparently and just seemed to kinda roll with it. i moved because i wanted a cheaper land. and am very happy with current situations -

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

06-13-2008 16:03

From: Kain Cleaver

Money payout and payin is involved.

Thank you.

We already had the discussion of whether or not I think its gambling and what I think of the Lindens making an exception in the case of this game.

I think its gambling,

You say its Linden approved, and had chatlogs that seemed to support it.

I get it.

Obviously the one I disagree with is Zara Linden and her enforcement of the policy, but thats another issue.

But thanks for clearing up whether the game pays out money.

Kaimi Kyomoon

Kah-EE-mee

Join date: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 5,664

06-13-2008 17:37

From: Kain Cleaver

Money payout and payin is involved. the game is a skill game and is allowed in secondlife dispite what certain haters say. anyone who has gotten in trouble with the game was due to an inexperianced linden. and the issue was resolved as soon as that linden had looked up the info about the game.

so no.. DEAL , Mindspin, Scratch it, Nudgers, DEAL XL are not considered gambling in secondlife.

Hmm... in post #12 3Ring quoted a note card:

From: notecard

The player pays the machine for a play, The player plays the game
and insted of getting a L$ return they recieve ticket points that can be used in a special
vendor to exchange for product / prizes

TickeTek Points are non-transferable / unpurchaseable / and only good with the person who earned them
meaning they must be earned in gaming to gain. they cannot be reused in the games and can only
be deducted via the Item Vendor. They also cannot be reproduced or copied.

Q. The banning of gambling in secondlife says that games cannot payout any real-world currency or "thing of value"
Isnt the method your using for this gaming falling under the "thing of value" situation?

A. for something to be considered a thing of value. a item has to have a true value. and a method of being purchased
TickeTek Ticket Points Cannot be purchased from you - they cant be regambled - and Cannot be Transfered Therefore cannot
have a value attached to them.

Q. Ok, Thats fine.. but what about those prizes that the vendor holds? the tickets may not have value but surely those items would!

A. Nope, TickeTek Vendors will not allow an item to be set as Transfer for the next Owner. Which means items cannot be transfered or
resold - therefor removing the value of the item.

But now you seem to be saying that the game does indeed cost L$ to play and does indeed give L$ prizes to winners. So you are, in fact, basing your claim that it isn't gambling on your claim that it is a skill game rather than one of chance?

In which case I don't know ebough about it to comment after all.

_____________________

Kaimi's Normal Wear

From: 3Ring Binder

i think people are afraid of me or something.

Kain Cleaver

Registered User

Join date: 24 Jan 2006

Posts: 178

06-13-2008 19:13

From: Kaimi Kyomoon

Hmm... in post #12 3Ring quoted a note card:But now you seem to be saying that the game does indeed cost L$ to play and does indeed give L$ prizes to winners. So you are, in fact, basing your claim that it isn't gambling on your claim that it is a skill game rather than one of chance?

In which case I don't know ebough about it to comment after all.

no sorry i misunderstood. i was refering to my skill games (deal, mindspin, scratch it, nudgers)

the quote you had there was from ticketek system a older gaming system i had made shortly after the ban.

ticketek does take in money but will not payout money based on outcome. the only money it pays out is remaining unused unplayed credits. any and all wins go out in the form of ticket points which are used in ticket accepting vendors. these items cannot be transfered or resold. nor can the tickets. therefor the system is 100% secure and legal and has not had any problems inworld since its release.

Kaimi Kyomoon

Kah-EE-mee

Join date: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 5,664

06-13-2008 21:47

Ah.

_____________________

Kaimi's Normal Wear

From: 3Ring Binder

i think people are afraid of me or something.

Is this GAMING or GAMBLING?
Wren Palen Registered User Join date: 3 Jul 2007 Posts: 204	06-13-2008 12:42 when i started this thread back in the day, you paid in to the machine, and received a cash prize, which could (of course) be traded for real money. GAMBLING. i don't know what the prizes are for this game now, 5 months later, but if they are not for cash, then why did this guy necro post with a complaint it was gambling? he didn't give a location of the game to check it out. if you receive a prize that is transferable, that prize could be sold for money, so that still falls under the guise of gambling... in a money laundering kind of way. _____________________ "I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best." — Marilyn Monroe
3Ring Binder always smile Join date: 8 Mar 2007 Posts: 15,028	06-13-2008 12:43 when i started this thread back in the day, you paid in to the machine, and received a cash prize, which could (of course) be traded for real money. GAMBLING. i don't know what the prizes are for this game now, 5 months later, but if they are not for cash, then why did this guy necro post with a complaint it was gambling? he didn't give a location of the game to check it out. if you receive a prize that is transferable, that prize could be sold for money, so that still falls under the guise of gambling... in a money laundering kind of way. last time i played a random game, the prize was transferable. _____________________ it was fun while it lasted. http://2lf.informe.com/
Kain Cleaver Registered User Join date: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 178	06-13-2008 15:59 From: Colette Meiji Hmmm are you sure there is no money payout involved? I'm looking at this Deal thing on SL exchange its sold in a 20 pack box for 40,000$L !!!!!!!!!!!! One thing for sure the creator isn't the one gambling. But maybe the buyer is. Money payout and payin is involved. the game is a skill game and is allowed in secondlife dispite what certain haters say. anyone who has gotten in trouble with the game was due to an inexperianced linden. and the issue was resolved as soon as that linden had looked up the info about the game. so no.. DEAL , Mindspin, Scratch it, Nudgers, DEAL XL are not considered gambling in secondlife. and yes the 20 pack is 40,000 but discounted because the normal price for a single machine is 2500 - 10,000 off of the full price. 3Ring is a lil scorned from me being next to her land apparently and just seemed to kinda roll with it. i moved because i wanted a cheaper land. and am very happy with current situations -
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	06-13-2008 16:03 From: Kain Cleaver Money payout and payin is involved. Thank you. We already had the discussion of whether or not I think its gambling and what I think of the Lindens making an exception in the case of this game. I think its gambling, You say its Linden approved, and had chatlogs that seemed to support it. I get it. Obviously the one I disagree with is Zara Linden and her enforcement of the policy, but thats another issue. But thanks for clearing up whether the game pays out money.
Kaimi Kyomoon Kah-EE-mee Join date: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 5,664	06-13-2008 17:37 From: Kain Cleaver Money payout and payin is involved. the game is a skill game and is allowed in secondlife dispite what certain haters say. anyone who has gotten in trouble with the game was due to an inexperianced linden. and the issue was resolved as soon as that linden had looked up the info about the game. so no.. DEAL , Mindspin, Scratch it, Nudgers, DEAL XL are not considered gambling in secondlife. Hmm... in post #12 3Ring quoted a note card: From: notecard The player pays the machine for a play, The player plays the game and insted of getting a L$ return they recieve ticket points that can be used in a special vendor to exchange for product / prizes TickeTek Points are non-transferable / unpurchaseable / and only good with the person who earned them meaning they must be earned in gaming to gain. they cannot be reused in the games and can only be deducted via the Item Vendor. They also cannot be reproduced or copied. Q. The banning of gambling in secondlife says that games cannot payout any real-world currency or "thing of value" Isnt the method your using for this gaming falling under the "thing of value" situation? A. for something to be considered a thing of value. a item has to have a true value. and a method of being purchased TickeTek Ticket Points Cannot be purchased from you - they cant be regambled - and Cannot be Transfered Therefore cannot have a value attached to them. Q. Ok, Thats fine.. but what about those prizes that the vendor holds? the tickets may not have value but surely those items would! A. Nope, TickeTek Vendors will not allow an item to be set as Transfer for the next Owner. Which means items cannot be transfered or resold - therefor removing the value of the item. But now you seem to be saying that the game does indeed cost L$ to play and does indeed give L$ prizes to winners. So you are, in fact, basing your claim that it isn't gambling on your claim that it is a skill game rather than one of chance? In which case I don't know ebough about it to comment after all. _____________________ Kaimi's Normal Wear From: 3Ring Binder i think people are afraid of me or something.
Kain Cleaver Registered User Join date: 24 Jan 2006 Posts: 178	06-13-2008 19:13 From: Kaimi Kyomoon Hmm... in post #12 3Ring quoted a note card:But now you seem to be saying that the game does indeed cost L$ to play and does indeed give L$ prizes to winners. So you are, in fact, basing your claim that it isn't gambling on your claim that it is a skill game rather than one of chance? In which case I don't know ebough about it to comment after all. no sorry i misunderstood. i was refering to my skill games (deal, mindspin, scratch it, nudgers) the quote you had there was from ticketek system a older gaming system i had made shortly after the ban. ticketek does take in money but will not payout money based on outcome. the only money it pays out is remaining unused unplayed credits. any and all wins go out in the form of ticket points which are used in ticket accepting vendors. these items cannot be transfered or resold. nor can the tickets. therefor the system is 100% secure and legal and has not had any problems inworld since its release.
Kaimi Kyomoon Kah-EE-mee Join date: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 5,664	06-13-2008 21:47 Ah. _____________________ Kaimi's Normal Wear From: 3Ring Binder i think people are afraid of me or something.

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Is this GAMING or GAMBLING?