Is this GAMING or GAMBLING?

i really can't see the difference between gaming and gambling... can someone who understands the the TOS please check this place and explain to me how this is ok.

thanks. it's in (Shark 194, 110, 61)

It's blatantly gambling. It's basically bingo. The fact that they say "this is LEGAL!!!!" doesn't actually change that.

that's wut i thot.

It says it's legal, it must be legal.

Looked like gambling to me...and damn ugly too, which concerns me a helluva lot more than the gambling.

if it involves money and any significant degree of chance it's gambling...

the creator is probably american and going off local laws (many states make exceptions for bingo and similar games when run by charities)...

under TOS even raffles are considered gambling

It's extremely similar to the Slingo games that have already been approved by Lindens. The key issue is not whether it's gambling, but whether it falls under the Internet Gambling Law that LL is trying to protect themselves against. To me, this game seems a lot more reliant on the randomness than the other games that have been approved, but I don't think that this game maker would advertise that Lindens have approved the game unless he actually got the game approved.

Actually, someone of a devious enough mindset would say that it was Linden approved, just so that they wouldn't get AR'd right off the bat. But that's just how it goes.

Hi Guys,

To those who doubt the games legality. It was submitted for review yesterday and approved by Zara Linden. If you have doubts about my word please feel free to contact her on the matter.

As for issues of randomness.

The game does indeed require skill. the basis of the game is to make sure you complete as many lines as possible to gain better access to more cases for a better score.

much like slingo the numbers generated on board are random to their field column 1 is reserved for 1-10 2 is for 11-20 and so on for the 4 collumns

paying attention to the board requires skill but i know thats stretching the boundrys .. dont pay attention..30 seconds are up.. then you dont catch the number in time.

numbers do not repeat. simular to your everyday bingo/slingo/zyngo/dmc board

the biggest skill factor is determining the proper placement of your wildcards. place them in the wrong place and you may not get the lines you were hoping to get. thinking ahead is the key.

the gameplay mechanics are simular to slingo except that my game has a bonus round and relys on a 4x4 grid insted of a 5x5.

i have not had complaints and im sure there will be people doubting my claim of legality for a while because im sure they dont want to be in trouble. so i completely understand

basically... costs $25 to play this keno type game. then i get back $5000 if i get them all and choose the right bonus card at the end?

no its costs L$25 at my place for contest board play

$ is running along the line of the theme of the game which is deal or decline
you get 5000 Points which is represented in USD like the gameshow (us version)

on the particular version of the game your talking about. there are 5 progressive prizes. top 5 high scores get the top 5 prizes listed on the board. Hence Contest Play.

the other machines on my land are set for instant wins. if you are to beat the high score you win the progressive pot.

very simple game but many have said its very fun to play.

I'm actually sad about the bingo games that are gone now. It was fun to sit and chat and play!

what is that? no where on this land does it explain what is involved, or what the payout is.


deal or decline? what does that mean? how does one find out what this all means?


excuse me... according to my interpretation and experience, anything UNDER the high score is a zero payout.


literally impossible to do now that the high scores are all at L$45,000


simple because it requires no thought or skill. fun if you win, i suppose.

you may have talked big circles around one LL staff member, but they won't all be fooled, nor will the general public.

i just went and played your games. first of all, the notecard you offer doesn't explain the payout schedule, or how you get paid. you pay the machine, you pick numbers (duh!) and you finally get to randomly pick a final number that may or may not give you a prize.

it would be impossible to beat the high scores, that 2 of the 3 on the high paying play side are set really high by YOU. even if you got all 4 rows in every direction, and chose the best bonus round prize, it would be a miracle if you could beat that score. once someone gets the endall highest score possible, how will anyone ever again be able to beat that and win another prize?

also, it offers 'wild cards'. but in most cases when that chip came up, it refused to let me click whichever number i wanted, or refused to let me click any at all. i clicked and clicked and clicked, and it finally timed out and went to the next 'deal'. therefore, i have conlcuded that it is not up to my 'skill' choices as a player, but instead it's set up to cheat.

what's the point of the freeplay? you play for free, but there is no prize?

lastly, you have a ticket center vendor that people can buy your games to place on their land. it blatantly tells the 'reader' of the notecard the following:



i don't know if you are in compliance with the TOS or not, but according to about 30 threads in this very forum, you are not. if i'm wrong, then i'll drop the matter of the vendor.

fix your wild cards, lower your 'high scores' as the only way a player can win and get paid back, and maybe you'll have something honorable and fair on your hands. right now, it seems a scheme that people will fall for, L$2 at a time.

(what is that? no where on this land does it explain what is involved, or what the payout is.)

L$25 is clearly posted on the bottom of the machines as the price to play
and if you noticed the huge contest board above the machines you would see the
top 5 score payouts.

(deal or decline? what does that mean? how does one find out what this all means? )
im sorry if you did not know of the game deal or decline, if you look it up you will see. its a game based off the gameshow called Deal or No Deal.

(literally impossible to do now that the high scores are all at L$45,000)
high scores are orignally set at 45000 and lower through time as the pot raises. btw for your information top score ive seen achieved is 73000 and scores betweek 40000-60000 do happen. just because it isnt easy doesnt mean its impossible.


(i just went and played your games. first of all, the notecard you offer doesn't explain the payout schedule, or how you get paid. you pay the machine, you pick numbers (duh!) and you finally get to randomly pick a final number that may or may not give you a prize.)

The machines that pay out on a time schedual are all listed. the contest board tells you how many minutes till pay out .. and machines on Normal mode (which are not on my land) also tell you how many minutes till payout. and picking the case at the end is not random. the amount of cases you get to chose from is the same as the amount of lines you complete. if you only complete 1 line you get 1 case which your forced to chose from. the more lines you have the more of the ability you will be able to have to access the X4 Multiplier.

your opinion of skill is exactly that.. opinion. my intentions was to make a game that people can enjoy and play in the game of second life. and many of the people who have played and purchased my game love it. granted i cant satisfy all people because people have different tastes. but it seems to me your attacking me for a reason. i wouldnt mind knowing what this reason is. as i have not attacked you and kept things professional.

as for your wild card problem theres no problem with those who have played it. are you sure you were clicking in the same collumn as that wild card? youd be the first who has had a problem with it . but ill certainly check it out if you claim that its not working.

(what's the point of the freeplay? you play for free, but there is no prize?)

For fun. BTW there is also a free play contest mode that links up with a the contest board which does pay out. i have 1 contest board out already displaying my games abilitys. the show room you see is mostly for display as i am the creator and sell this game. people want a hands on experiance before purchasing a game and my showroom is there for that.


and whats the reason of going after my ticketek system now anyways?

Ticketek is designed as an alternative way for creators to display their goods. its a system that works quite well in game and mostly ment for entertainment reasons.

Zara linden has also confermed with one of my ticketek owners that my system is fine because it does not pay out in Linden or USD.

We can argue this all you want. but the fact is that these 2 systems are in fact legal. and i see no reason why you are attempting to belittle my product.

please find another place to be a troll. thank you

What is strange now is if you look in some of this COUGH COUGH gaming sim they say they are free game. Pay 1L and you get it back. But if you go deeper inthe location you click pay they same style game and instead of 1L poping up it say 100L and it doesnt refund the money. This is what going to cause all games to be banned after awhile. because this game island owners are playing this game of lies. I am not going to name locations or owners but this is occuring.

oh im sure, there are many people out there who are entirely dishonest and will look to do anything to grab a quick buck. the best thing to do to avoid this is know your creators. well estabilished games like zyngo and dmc. the creators are listed on every game. the creators names cannot change only the owner name. if you see a game that looks like may be fishy.. right click and edit.. look at the creator. if that creator doesnt match. then its most likely a scam.

im not saying this is true for all cases.. but if you had a game like mine (DEAL) and it said the creator was Calvin Clone insted of Kain Cleaver. i wouldnt play that game.

Scams have been around for a while. ive seen blackjack tables that make the dealer always have 21 and then shut down after winning, ive seen fake slots back in the days before the ban. cyber thieves are out there. just be careful

That is very true, But what crazy in this sence is they posting sign saying they are real onesｭ(Yes and I know people will lie reguardless). If this occures more offen then before indeed we might be faced with gaming being banned totally.

the price to play is posted, and the top 5 score payouts are posted. but above all that it says to win you need to beat the high score. since it's nearly at it's highest point already because you played it yourself until it was set to that number, how can anyone now beat it? you lure the player with an instant win bait, but new players will never realize the scam.



i should not have to look up a game in order to play it. why aren't you explaining it there?


it lowers? LOLOL i saw it raise, not lower.



if i win all the lines, and get all 10 cases, i still have to choose randomly from the choices to see what my prize will be. it is not based on my "skill" of clicking the numbers that you offered at the bottom. it's random, unless you disclose wut each box contains, and i use my "skill" to pick the box i want.


i found your spot, i am pointing out a blatant scheme, and it is my opinion that this falls under gambling. i have not been proven otherwise, to date. if you take that personally, i cannot help that. i did not create the scheme, you did.


ahhhh..... so it's a wild card meant ONLY for the column it falls under. and here i thought you said it was wild and that it's placement was critical in decision making, thus introducing the skill. if i get a wild card in a row that has only one open slot, then of course i MUST choose that slot, and not anywhere else on the board. how does MY skill enter this equation? you have chosen for me where i mut choose. it's even more of a scheme in my eyes now.


ahhhh yes, a showroom.



my reason is to expose these gambling schemes that fall under the guise of gaming. sure, you tricked one young naive Linden, but i'm not so easily fooled. this is the best gambling trickery i've seen in SL since the ban, but i see through it. i've pointed out the flaws... basically.... your arguement that it falls under the TOS because it's a game of skill falls flat because there are so many holes. i am seeing them and pointing them out. you need to close the holes.

i see that you feel cornered and have no more logical excuses about why the randomoness is "skill"... by calling me a troll and trying to turn this at me instead of explaining and showing this forum how this is actually legal doesn't really help your position.

i earnestly anticipate your further explanations. and may the AR's continue until you either make it a skill based game that is not random, or get caught by someone a little more intelligent, and more interested in complying with national laws.

Looks to me like a Linden screwed up. I see "random numbers","pay to play", and "Ls paid out" that makes it gambling. Wouldn't be the first time one Linden said it was OK, just to have another come along and say it isn't.
So, I will check it out, if it looks like gambling to me; and it certainly looks like it will be, I will AR it. Yes, I'm a COB.

Very good posting. I believe what the was trying to say is its their fault if they don`t edit the machine and do match the maker with bla bla bla.......

I do wish they wouldn't use "Games of Skill" since in the world of online gambling it means games where you influence the outcome by judgement i.e. blackjack etc. In the UK anyway.

"Games of Chance" being fixed odds, both sorts being reliant on random number generators in their online guises.

Pay money + chance you might not get the exact amount of money back = gambling.

It's like I never left the office today

ok. well do me a favor and tell me what is different in the skill department between deal, zyngo and devil may care.

Well, I certainly think it's gambling under the given definition for similar reasons as ones stated above, and the fact that other things may be gambling and also allowed is neither here nor there.

Of course, my opinion doesn't really matter here. However, given the inconsistency in enforcement when it comes to the gambling regulations, I would not be surprised if SomeRandom Linden sees it and says "gambling, delete, warn account", regardless of what SomeOther Linden has previously said.

By the way, I have no problem with gambling in itself, this is not in any sense a criticism - I have problems with laggy casinos, gambling zombies, shouting raffle balls and spam, but not gambling as such, and I would be quite happy to see as many properly-run casinos as people care to build as long as they are not disruptive to other people.

you make great points. surprisingly, i agree with them all.

i just have this one little nagging thing that says if "I" have to follow the rules of the national laws, so does everyone else. you talk naughty in a forum and get suspended, but it's okay to break national gambling laws?

maybe i am pointing my finger at the wrong person. who do i send the AR report to to bust LL for allowing this? maybe LL needs to reevaluate their hiring practices. i wonder how much the monetary penalty is for turning a blind eye to even just this one casino.... can LL afford to ignore the situation?

I am not sure which government department in the US regulates these things. I wouldn't report this to them personally - it doesn't harm _me_ if somebody gets away with something like this.

But I am very, very sure that if some investigator did come in from one of them, and take a look around the Grid, and see this, they would say "this is gambling". If LL are trying to prevent that and they let this go, they are not being very sensible. Of course, perhaps they are just trying to demonstrate a certain level of care, that they have _tried_, in which case it may be reasonable if the system isn't that widespread.

if it's recent since the ban, and allowed, that does not seem like reasonable care.

if there's a secret place with an old casino that just hasn't been busted yet, i can see how that could happen i would be forgivable IF it had never been AR'd.

anything AR'd and ignored is a case against LL.

edit: and no matter how you slice and dice it, talk in circles and skew the facts, mask it with falsities, and cover it up with shiny buttons, convince naive and uneducated people with your slick sales talk, it's still gambling.