Why SL cannot succeed - a personal opinion.

You can, though.

Give them something interesting, and they will. A neat product, or simply an arresting personality. A fascinating place. A new song.

Sure, _if_ the thing that you want to do is something that others find interesting. But if it happens that all the other people around find chatting and dancing in clubs most interesting, and you don't want to do that then... well, you can't change them.

To me it seems a big problem in SL is competing with "others".

Like someone said, FPS & MMO's get you used to a certain way of doing things.

Second Life does away with all of that, and lets the user chose their path. With this much freedom people are quick to get bored as they're not given "challenges" right off the bat.

To use SL, one needs to 'think outside the box'.

Its not a system of "What will they have me do now?" but a system of "What can I do now?"

As I mentioned, I think that people are very quick to say this, but that they're missing there's a more involved problem which is that there actually aren't that many things you can do on SL - you can chat, game in a limited sense, create, explore, and do business - and that's pretty much all. (Note that I didn't mention "role-play" in there, because role-play is just one of the many trappings in which you can do those five things.)

The second problem is that the market has done a brilliant job of delivering a huge, wide, fascinating range of content - but that content hasn't enabled anyone to break out of those five things, and that unfortunately means that it has sharply diminishing returns, creating the observable effect where most content buyers are new users.

I would think too, not having played any of those games, that those tasks and challenges instill a sort of feeling of having to play each day? You have something you have to accomplish and you can't put it off. Whereas in SL there are only tasks you give yourself, and you set your own schedule. This biggest thing I do to combat any boredom is to either not log on if I don't want to do something specific, or if I am idle sitting with nothing going for too long I log out and come back when I want to do something. I spend far less time inworld as I did before, but i enjoy it more, I think.

What else would you "Break Out"into? True if NONE of those things , or subsets of those things interest you, you aren't going to like SL, but then you probably aren't the type who wants to sit in front of a computer for entertainment anyway.

That's exactly it. How many times have I been up at 3:00 am because I was just trying to get past the next section/room/challenge or whatever. As soon as I make it to the building, I'll go to bed. OK, as soon as I make it to the second story of the building. As soon as I clear the next room....as soon as I make it back out of the building...

Same thing for MMORPGs - they keep handing you things to do. Finished your mission? here's your next one. People expect things to be given to them and they don't realize that the beauty of SL is that it doesn't do that.

Yumi - your five things list is so broad. It's like saying that RL is no good because there's only three things to do: Stuff to stay alive (eat, breathe, sleep, take shelter), stuff you have to do (laundry, work, dishes, exercise), and stuff you do for recreation (insert endless list). Withing your list of five things that comprise the only thinkgs you can do in SL are an endless array of options. There are only two forms of life on earth: Plants and animals. See what I mean?

Does anyone know if there ARE games in SL like this? The closest I've seen is I am Legend, and even that was sort of pointless; there was no levelling up if you killed lots of people, no sense of accomplishment at the end of a session, and therefore, no reason to continue or return. The Pothealer of Numbkalla is good for a "quest" type thing but it's singularly non-interactive with other people. I could be the only person on the planet and go play Pothealer, and it wouldn't affect my game at all.

I'd like to see more interactive, constructive games, like, I hate to say it, WoW, created in SL, that people could go play for a few hours, them come and explore the rest of the world.

Better yet, the creation of a game that requires you to hop to and from various sims in order to figure out the puzzle. Like the teleportation trail, except with a prize of some sort of worth.

I've got it - We could use 16m plots all over the grid - just enough to leave a box with clue to the general location of the next plot. The first one to complete the quest wins something. Then we have a fun game AND a use for ex-adfarms. At the end of the game, donate the 16's to adjoining landowners if they want them or terraform them to fit the neighboring landscape so they aren't a blight.

I'm only half serious.

Seriously, that would be cool. Any of us who own/rent land that they don't mind being public access could include a part of the puzzle on their land. Like, maybe the puzzle could be made up of clues to solve a mystery.

I wonder how much of a PITA it would be to organize a REAL game, pitting people against eachother; a race against the clock and eachother. You could have some sort of automated start system that requires at least two players to register, like the car races at Pontiac... dunno.. just thinking...

Make it like Amazing Race. The last person to complete each leg of the puzzle gets eliminated. They could be required to solve a puzzle or collect an object or something to prove they completed the leg.

We didn't just derail another thread, did we? Batten down the hatches, Oryx - this is where the hatemail starts.

Random Calliope has puzzle quests for jewelry. Having stumbled across some of the clues in my wanderings, I can say that some of his puzzles are really hard! And I think they do go to several mainland locations ...

and yeah, I don't think this thread should be derailed. Maybe start another ... this is a serious thread, kinda.

The Great Second Life Mystery Race. Or Second Life's Amazing Mystery (aka SLAM) Race. Sweet. Make the collected object no transfer so people can't cheat.

Yeah we did derail. I'm a bad bad horrible person. I'm going to take a shower in a house that actually has a functioning bathroom. Laterz.

I wasn't really trying to, and I've given a couple serious answers.

Back on track - I think there are plenty of things to do in SL, but I really think the way new residents are introduced to the world makes it difficult for them to adapt and without new resident retention, SL cannot succeed. It goes without saying that we need a stable platform as well. I guess the problem is that you have a bunch of visionaries and nobody is actually driving the ship. There's no visible direction. All "Tao" jokes aside, everybody is running around fulfilling their vision and SL has grown to the point where that isn't a viable business model.

I have to agree with this, to some extent. My husband first started playing on SL long before I did after reading about it in a PC gaming magazine. He's a huge PC gamer, not so much online games, though. Just quests, battles, etc., where there's a specific goal to accomplish.

I, however, have never really played those types of computer game. I was involved in chat rooms, though. My husband and I both like to create in SL, but he gets bored with it far quicker than I do. He goes through periods where he spends very little time in SL for a week or 2, and can't seem to understand why I don't feel the same way. During those breaks, he plays his PC games. I, on the other hand, really enjoy the unstructured aspect of SL, and the social aspect.m My husband is less sociable than I am in SL, I think.

I'm not a very competitive person so a feeling of having "won" or "beaten" the game isn't essential to me for me to enjoy something. I like feeling creative, decorating my home, shopping like I can't in RL. All of those things appeal to me. I think people who are more like me in their view of the gaming world are more apt to be appreciative of what SL does have to offer. And what they can do with what it has to offer.

I'm not really sure how LL can use that information to help retention, but I think that's where their focus should be, and they should provide more tools to facilitate that in the beginning. OI really does need some work in introducing newbies to SL.

ok I have been here as long as you and frankly I do not have a great deal of the technical issues you have. Generally I move around without much issue, and I spend the majority of my time on teh old mainland, I have found that when teh griefers do object attacks in my sim, if I file a Jira it is cleaned up within 45 min to a hour, which I think is reasonable. Amazingly we actually agree on something, I agree most of the complaints come from people who have not been long enough to see how things have gotten better. You have been saying the same thing for over 2 years!. it is almost word for word, so either the problems after 3 + years are truely not bad enough to make you quit or you just enjoy crabbing about it.
Yes SL has problems, yes I get very frustrated with some issues I find no reason for them to have screwed with.
I guess I travel in very different area's than you do, I do not know any people who have left SL due to technical issues, but I know a large number who have gotten burned out and left.
Also, something that becomes apparent to me when i see people complain the LL doesn't listen, what a lot of them actually mean is, "LL didn't do what I want them to do"
Just because they listen to you , it doesn't mean they will do it your way.
sorry this is just sort of general response to several things in this thread.

Whew. I got to shower, and with hot water, too!

At any rate, I've been sitting here trying to figure out a way to really welcome newcomers. Like so many have said, SL is so huge and multi-faceted, that many wander and wonder, then leave.

I'm thinking that LL had the right idea in allowing entities to open up customized portals (e.g. the CSI:NY portal, the NBA portal, etc.) Two ideas re: portals...

1. Introduce several new "lifestyle" portals. For example, if a person is interested in sports (not just basketball, football, etc) then he can choose the Sports portal. Upon entry, he's sent to the Sports Arena for his orientation. Give him landmarks to the Pontiac raceway, etc. Automatically enroll him in a sports-minded group or groups of his choice. I know that these exist now, but there is an opportunity to truly pull in people and make them feel welcome, rather than lost.

LL could do the same for portals like a GLBT portal, a role-playing portal, etc etc. What I'm trying to get at is to not just send people to these portals and then send them away from teh orientations with nothing but the shirts on their back, but to really instantly immerse them in a local society.

2. I forget what I was going to say. Something to do with LL's general business model I think.

Can there be a Trout portal? Let me tell you about the landmarks you would get coming through THAT one! Actually, this is a good idea because it sets people up with a community. They are automatically in with groups of like-minded people, so they are more likely to stick around and make friends. If you just come in fresh off OI and don't know anybody, it can be hard to get a sense of community or find people you want to talk to.

I had the exact same experience. I found it very frustrating. My former career required that I move every 18 months and whenever I moved I would pull out a map get in the car and learn the city. I wanted to do the same thing with SL and I couldn't. I found it very disorienting. When I did find crowds they were at Telehubs (though I didn't know that's what they were called) and while I wasn't griefed specifically, the conversations taking place were rather pathetic.

The only reason I ended up staying is I stumbled on a support group that I'm a part of in RL and I hung around long enough to get to know and understand SL better. Had that not been the case you all would have missed the opportunity to get to know my charming self.

Today it seems easy, but looking back it wasn't. Especially for someone like me who doesn't like to ask questions. I like to just figure things out for myself. That's hard to do in SL.

I was just the opposite. I loved the mystery of it all, not knowing where I was going or what was happening. Every time I logged on it was an adventure. There was a certain whimsy to it all that I really miss.

It was a mystery and it was an adventure. I was excited by it all. Unfortunately, I was running into all the wrong places and was getting a very distorted view of what SL was and the excitement was fading pretty fast. That's what I'm afraid happens to too many people. I think it's really luck of the draw.

I can see that, especially those that don't think to come here. For me, even those wrong places amazed me, having no experience with anything like this. It all made me laugh, wonder, and shake my head all at the same time. But I do agree, there does need to be some sort of early guidance, I think LL needs to do a better job of promoting all SL has to offer besides pimping the real estate, and business angles. More in world Linden Events, or commissioning some of the more creative residents.

But the thing is, those five things don't cover all possible activities.

I mean, for example. Some people who play WoW enjoy just slashing their way through goblins or similar. That doesn't fit into any of the five categories above. It's not chat, business, exploration, creation, and oddly enough it isn't a game either - although WoW as a whole might be a game, slashing goblins isn't a game because it isn't fair, as the goblins have no real chance to win. Now, this isn't something that I'd want to do but for the people who do want to do it, it's important to them because it makes them feel like a powerful warrior.

But the thing is.. many people like the idea of a game which can "make them feel" like somebody in a more social or expressive role, and many people think Second Life will be that, but it isn't that. Suppose that you want to be a dancer in SL - not a stripper, an actual dancer - it is not a game (there's no winners and losers), it's not creation (well, you could probably gain a role by creating dance animations, but then you'd be spending most of your time dragging sliders in Avimator which probably isn't how you wanted to feel), it's not exploration and it's not business. People do dance in clubs while chatting but the predominant activity there is the chatting, not the dancing - the dancing is just "click a ball and go" which doesn't convey the same feeling. So that isn't possible in SL. And many other "roles" go the same way.

Take Vikki's example. She buys a new hot tub but then wonders what to do with it. Chat? She could ask someone to come talk in the tub.. but it would be the same as talking to them anywhere else. A tub isn't a game. It doesn't help you create. You don't explore your own content and you're not likely to run it as a business. So what should she do with it?

Magically, I got routed to what I would consider the "right" places - the Shelter in Isabel, and NCI. This is from one of the welcome areas that I somehow managed to find my way to, I think one near Luskwood that I probably read on a notecard. I met nice people, some of whom gave me money to get started. I paid that forward as I could, with other noobs like myself. I camped a lot and made some friends. We went apartment shopping and found this beautiful private island with Asian builds, and I moved in with 2 of my friends. I had a great experience and didn't find it to be truly difficult. But in retrospect, none of that should be "magical." It should be more focused.