What's keeping you out of the SL Answers blog? (O.o)

Quoting from multiple sources is another story as well.


I don't know whether people use "layout" primarily to refer to the flat vs threaded dichotomy, or for other issues as well. There are sidebar actions that people expect to find elsewhere, the discussion text is off-center, the line spacing is more than usual, etc.

I can't explain this phenomenon. It's a good question for someone who studies the sociological issues of online communities.

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This isn't an appropriate response, because it's dismissive of sincere concerns. We're not obligated to use SL either. Sometimes a complaint can be chalked up to whining, but this level of complaint deserves to be heard, without telling people to go away.

I found the reverse Polish notation of HP calculators intuitive. When my daughter brought home her school calculator with a little exercise sheet I helped her with it. She picked it up immediately and said this is the way all calculators should work.

My husband (who is supposed to be the left brain type) just looked at it and said something like why anyone would want to do things backwards is just dumb.

Pick up any calculator or adding machine and it is straight forward.
4 + 8 = 12
For most people using a calculator that is all they want to know. From figuring the number of floor tiles you need to calculating a tip it is a simple one step calculation. The HP calculators can do complex algebraic expression in one line. A big part of the powerful ability of advanced calculators it the notation scheme. It works and works well. But with power comes complexity. Complexity that is not needed for the bulk of the population using a calculator.

The same can be said for the new flogs. There is a lot of powerful features but they are superfluous to the task. I could take the time to learn the layout and get used to where things are -- in fact I did. That does not change the fact that every new person trying to find a quick answer will be lost in the process, many will give up and go elsewhere for an answer. There is no need for the complexity of the new structure; it just gets in the way.

But my biggest problem is that all those features and power of the underlying tech makes each page slow to load. I get bored of waiting and go back to something with a leaner, quicker build.

Correct.

And I don't use them.

When this vb powered one dies I will use another one that does.

This brings the question, is this the intended course of action? Is the desired effect to have fewer people using the forums they provide? It seems the answer is yes.

Look, I am not emotionally invested in the forums beyond the people I have met here. I know where they are. I know where we can talk. Whether it is on a LL provided website or not is a long way down my priority list. There are people who are motivated by loyalty to LL and would like to see the community flourish on the LL supported forums. As such they are vocal about things that inhibit the community spirit. The new flogs supports an interaction similar to the interaction with a convenience store clerk.

So .. I will go elsewhere. Not a threat or vent or anything. I will just go with something I like. And I am absolutely positive there is no one on the new flogs that will in any way whatsoever give a rats ass if I am there or not. Nothing is worth getting all riled up about as far as I am concerned.

There's not really an "elsewhere" for some styles. I prefer a mix of Pure with Brazen...and not having to make a choice of one extreme or the other. I also want it to be an official place, operated by LL. Those are the rules and practices I follow inworld, and makes sense to follow them here, if we're talking about inworld SL issues. If you're talking about RL issues, then by all means use a forum out there in RL. If we're talking about SL issues, then LL needs to have the comments in front of them, and not be googling for them, or missing them entirely.

The Purists can be told to get Real by the Brazen....and the Brazen can be told to get a grip by the Purists, and those in between will mix in fine. A combination of old and new mix fine, as well. A small inkling of moderation, and you can maintain that mix. It even works here, (most days)....without the moderation. It would draw in quite a few more to participate, or it would keep some from leaving, making the mix even more interesting and more challenging....if there were moderation.

As for your friends and business contacts....the people you chat with inworld every day.....take a look at where they came from. Probably half of them or more came from here. Probably a very interesting mix of people with all kinds of styles in communication and all kinds of different experience....pretty much the reason that SL exists. That mix came from here. Try duplicating it in a dysfunctional forum or recreating it in an inworld venue. Won't happen. It's already right here.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers doesn't give a list of all threads.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers?view=overview doesn't either.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers?view=all only shows 4 threads.

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers?view=discussions only shows 4 threads.

The "New Posts" button in this vBulletin forum gives a list of new activity in all the forums here. It's the primary way I've viewed a list of posts for years now.

You are 100% correct on all accounts. But things are what they are, or so will soon be. I am also a #6.

Do it!! Dare you!! This is exactly what SL Answers needs

Ah, you're right. This covers multiple forums, but only a select subset, with no way to go back in time.

And these go back in time, but only show one forum.

In addition, they made a poor choice in using multiple subforums for subject areas in the Answers section. This is an ideal use of tags. Possibly Second Life for beginners and Technical should have been spawned off, but most of them should be combined into one forum.

The way to approach subforums is like the way to approach foot paths when landscaping a green or quadrangle. Just start with the minimal, then wait to see where people wear down the grass.

In response to the original question, my main reason for not going there as often as here is the very short expiration on login cookies combined with the lack of help at the Remember Me box. I don't want my login to be permanent until explicit logout, so I'm not willing to check that box unless they tell me precisely what it does.

yeah...but maybe some Linden's tag football game got rained out today, and they're at home in the recliner with their laptop....checking email to see if it's their turn to bring the breakfast casserole to tomorrow morning's "pump you up" meeting....and they venture in here to see what kind of trouble you're stirring up today, Brenda.....they start reminiscing about the old days....a tear rolls down their cheek.....and they get choked up....then they have a few too many Buds, and ramble off some emotionally charged email to what's-his-name....outlining a way to keep both formats....

And suddenly, there's a new topic at the Monday morning "pump you up" meeting.

Something like that.

LOL..I'm sure any Linden that did read this forum, if there are any, would be glad to see me go.

The OP does add to it, problem is it now lies in the "answered" section so others don't go looking at the thread, ergo the discussion dies. Discussion isn't encouraged by the format.



Sort of true, I've commented in threads that end up being moved to Second Life Answers because LL won't provide a general SL section on the commerce forums. However I have not intentionally been using Second Life Answers and have no intention of doing so.

The only thing that's keeping me out is that I can't find the blogs - the only one I can find is the usual one where LL post announcements and news.

This is what I found and I'm not sure it's what being discussed here

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers

Kitsy ^.^

Heh... I kinda linked to it in my OP too. =^-^=

Would be easier to list the things that would interest me IN it in the first place, let alone KEEP me IN it.

*crickets*

..and, no, it doesn't provide, pie, cake, coffee, booze, sexual gratification, money, or any damn thing else of interest to anyone.

I'm not nearly the helpful question-answering kinda guy I was in previous years, but even if I were I'd still avoid the answerblog because frankly I want it to fail so swiftly and spectacularly that it gets tossed out and replaced with something useful.

I'm an odd mix of starry-eyed dreamer and cynical old fart, I know.

Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter...

This primarily...and some of the other reasons mentioned. Once this forum closes...that may be the end of my SL posts.

I'll send my PA in first. Then if she comes out alive, I'll go in and ask. I am a born leader.

This forum will NEVER close. It will go on forever liek teh mighty Mississippi!

I'm not trying to say the new forum system is nice because I don't think it is. All I'm saying is that some of the issues are more-or-less easily addressed. They shouldn't BE issues in the first place, I agree, but since anyone who doesn't want to leave LL's forums is going to have to learn to live with the system it helps to know you have options (and my previous #6 was simply to help you remain sane trying to learn the new system. Take a deep breath and remember you don't HAVE to do this!)

As an example of both what is wrong with the system and how easily YOU can remove the obstacle -



- Yep, the default view is pants. That's why I click on 'discussion' view to see the latest, not whether things are 'answered' or not. If you're looking for discussion no doubt you'll do the same. If you just want a quick answer, you won't. Lol, the whole 'answered' thing doesn't happen much anyway, re the 'pointless' pun

Similarly with 'long load times' and 'impossible to find latest posts' - YES, it is moronic that long discussions (oooh, they happen contrary to the quote above!) are loaded as a single page, with people's comments scattered around throughout the list in 'threads' depending on to whom they are a response. So change your preference to 'flat'. Then you get things in pages - which take a fixed time to load - and in chronological order, so you can actually find the last posts; they're all at the end!

Not having a 'new posts' button is an enormous loss though.

To address Immy's OP though - answers suck, but then no experienced resident is going to be asking much there as far as I can tell. This is where Ciaran is completely correct; most of us will want to discuss 'around' an issue, not just ask the sort of question that allows a quick answer. To be honest I think LL only put that section of the blogs there to try to get people to use the new system. People that did were the 'first Alpha' guinea-pigs, now commerce has been added we're the 'public Beta'. LL do seem to be taking note of the comments and trying to address those they can. As I've said, I think that's because they don't want huge fallout when these forums get migrated.

LL have taken the decision to integrate everything into the new system though, and the one thing we all know is that while they might tweak things they will NEVER actually change their minds, however much the residents scream - so what can't be cured must be endured.

The point is, WE do not have to learn (I would say "put up with" but your version is nicer) the flog format and WE should not have to fix the problems.

It may be tin foil hat time but I am seriously beginning to think that a reduction in forum use is exactly what they are after. They seem to want a few people to answer simple question and that is it. This will keep the Q&A load off the support system and impede discussions of any short comings. Maximum benefit from minimum risk.

While it's true that there are things that keep me from SL Answers,
what's more important is that there is nothing to bring me there.

The question for me is not "why am I not using it?" but "why should I use it?"

What could make me *want* to use it?

At present, there is nothing. I like helping newbies, but I don't think SL Answers is a good vehicle for that.

Exactly.

If they want a community of knowledgeable people who'll stick around to helpfully answer questions they need a set of forums that enable discussion and a sense of community. Er, like these ones... The Answers frankenblogorum monstrosity is patently not fit for purpose.

Re Indeterminate's point that "what can't be cured must be endured":
In this case that doesn't hold true as Residents don't have to endure it - there are other forums and with the threat of closure here many have already departed to those. I think that proves the point really - proper, usable forums are a necessity for the residents that want to talk about SL and help each other out, and when these are not provided people develop their own.
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Aes