Void sim $50 tier increase

OK -- some thoughts here. First some caveats -- I am NOT an expert at developing distributed client/server network applications, designing network architectures, and most CERTAINLY not on any of the specifics of how LL has the internals of "the grid" set up. There is WAY plenty of room for me to be wrong, but I *am* an engineer who cuts code for a living, and I can't help but speculate on how some things might work if I were to put together something like the OpenSpace sims...

I would guess that what makes an OpenSpace sim an OpenSpace is some configuration differences in the server-side code -- less memory allocation, kick off fewer worker threads, etc. so they can wedge more simulators per CPU. Even cutting resources like that in half (much less 1/4) is pretty drastic in terms of how the software is going to run -- ESPECIALLY when one (or more) of the simulators starts being run hard: performance is going to degrade fast. That sort of thing can be mitigated, but not w/o beefier hardware (more RAM, faster processors w/ more cache, etc) to give the s/w more room, and THAT'S where cost starts coming in... Regarding what KIND of usage hits the system hardest -- I honestly don't know, and many people w/ more knowledge than myself have weighed in (and debated) these points in great detail. But _rendering_ prims/textures is primarily a client-side thing -- the server has to tell your client what to do, but the client has to do all the work. The things (in NO particular order) that are going to hit the server-side (and thus sim performance) are physics, scripts, and lots of transactions w/ the asset server. Lots of people in the sim, OR a few people sorting inventory, changing clothes, attaching prims, rezzing prims, simulator hand-offs (TPs/sim crossings) -> server side load. And clearly, the OS sims are NOT set up to handle much load before they start running like dogs.

As far as bandwidth goes... again, if I was setting this sort of system up, I would spec out network hardware/infrastructure (routers, switches, VPN appliances, maybe even NICs in the servers themselves) and set up load balancing based on the stated original expectation of light usage of the OS sims. Anybody who's been on a network that gets overloaded knows how quickly things go bad wrong with the ENTIRE network when one such device locks up, overheats, or otherwise fails. So -- the connectivity to my hypothetical OS setup starts getting used way beyond what I specced it out for, the performance of said OS simulators suffers, AND guess what -- they're hooked into the rest of the grid, so the whole grid gets wobbly. Asset server connectivity issues, anyone?

At this point, I've got a system that is underperforming for what my users have demonstrated they want to use it for. What are my options?
- Leave things as-is. Customers who bought my OS product are getting something that doesn't do what they want, and the performance of the rest of the system is suffering
- Upgrade hardware (and possibly/probably make software changes) so the system can perform reasonably when being used the way people want to use it. Costs money (gotta find a way to fund that...), doesn't fit in my old cost/price schedule, ...
- Find ways to enforce usage that matches my original specs. Performance of the rest of my system can be protected, but I've still got a large customer base not happy w/ the product they've bought, and even less happy b/c I'm telling them they're not allowed to do what they want to do with their sim.

Tough calls w/ pros and cons in every direction. Maybe it shouldn't have gotten to this point (shame on me), but it has, so I gotta do something. The thing that really sucks is that good people are gonna get hosed about any which way you go.

Anyways, sorry for rambling on with my speculations in a post the length of a small (ok, not so small) novella.

Cyn

that's alll blah blah blah to me... ALl I know is I do NOT have a heavy load in mine and mine has been FINE since I got it and we have no intention of bogging it down why am I to pay for others who abuse this so LL can make it better for them??
I have no0 idea about how it all works and I dont care really. All I know is I have to figure out how to come up with an extra 50.00 each month for my openspce sim we added to the full sim so we can have a private house.

Yep, I blather a lot. Can't help it, I'm an enginerd , and I like to try to figure out how things work. Many many SL residents DON'T know and don't want to know about that stuff -- they just want to have an enjoyable experience. After all, that's what this whole thing is _supposed_ to be about!

I hear you that the extra $50/mo hurts. No doubt about it, that sucks. Like I said, lots of good people (who haven't been doing anything wrong) are getting hosed. I have to admit, I'm not an OpenSpace owner, so it's a bit easier for me to not feel that personal pain, to step back and just wonder a bit about the bigger picture behind what's happening and why. From that standpoint (and based on my potentially flawed speculations of how things *might* work) it's not hard for me to see possible other sides here, and to have a hard time seeing a way LL could go at this point in the whole deal that doesn't get a lot of people royally pissed.

I'm not saying that they've chosen the right way, the best way, to go here. I certainly don't know what the right way is -- I'm just saying that there may be many more (technical) factors driving their decisions than I at least know about, and given that I don't really know the whole story I'm not quite ready to go throwing rotten eggs at any Linden I see. I might like to ask them some rather in-depth questions, get some answers about the (technical) details of the situation and what exactly the increased tier is going to get all the OS owners, but I'm not ready to condemn the lab as an evil empire out to screw all SL residents just yet. But again, I don't quite have the personal stake in the matter that many do and thus have much less reason to be angry.

We had a conversation about that here: /354/86/290062/1.html

...now in the moment you cut the edge of each running software (the method to apply would be: limit the virtual machie (if a vm is being used); limit the process (if separate instances of the SIM are running on a single OS); develop a technology that would limit "internally" the software to suck more resources; etc. it really depends how the server software is designed and used (LL knows), you almost solved the problem: the OS won't find more resources to run on (since the server will remain the same indeed), but at least each OS will have it's own "space" to run on, and *if* some of them are being "abused" they won't affect all the others on the same machine.
It is exactly what i do (and many others does) on their own PC's when running multiple softwares in background: you assign to each of them a max amount of CPU utilization (and in certain cases, a max bandwidth usage) so you can still use your PC to do other things without that these applications eats all the available resources.
Does it sounds so hard to implement/use? And if it's really so hard, i expect that Linden Lab hired more than average (skilled) software engineers that know these matters.

Let's see:

1) a whole bunch of people paid $100-250 or more to "buy" and rent an openspace
2) LL raises prices on openspace tier and some of those people will find an openspace out of their budget
3) their landlords aren't going to pay them a pennie back so they're out whatever they paid to "buy the land"

And in your mind the first thing all those people who have been burned like that will do is buy another slice of land?

If anything this whole debacle is the perfect example of why you do not ever want to buy private land in SL: you're not only paying for land you never own in the SL sense, you're paying for the privilege to run all the risks while your landlord has none.

I'm renting an Openspace. I've been told that my particular sim will not see a raise in rent to cover any costs because it is being grandfathered ... however, as my landlady said at the office meeting yesterday, she has 98 Openspaces. She worked damned hard and does everything she can to provide amazing customer service. It's practically a full time job for her (not that it pays her as one). If every single one of those Openspaces had to have the extra $50 then that's the best part of 5K a month extra to pay.

Personally I am deeply deeply disappointed in Linden Lab, and have been increasingly disillusioned over the last 18 months. I'm very glad I chucked in the towel on being a Mentor (yeah, corporate shill is NOT why I wanted to Mentor, I help new people every bit as much as I ever did before I became a Mentor and after, just without dealing with the egos and politics).

Big fat wet smelly meh, frankly.

QFT.

Mania I am glad you're so amused. I'm also glad I am not going to rush off and buy mainland cos you know what?

MAINLAND TIER INCREASE WILL FOLLOW THIS.

So you laugh your socks off because unless you're a basic account (which for the intents of this argument makes you a freeloader) then your turn will come.

Yeah, I hadn't really thought about it that way, but in addition to whatever credibility problems this raises for LL, it may be a threat to private Estate businesses going forward--even those who never owned an OpenSpace at all. Once an end-user has been burnt, they may be pretty shy of going into any long-term land arrangement again. We can advise all we like about choosing reputable Estates, but even many reputable outfits have holdings that just can't be viable under the new rates. Could be a lot of folks calling the Hobo InfoHub "home" for a long while.

Somehow I don't think they'll be eagerly spending on clothes and gadgets all that money they're saving on rent, either.

Meanwhile over at the Open Space Discussion Forum....have you seen how many moderators there are manning that forum, 19 the last time I looked and every one a Linden.

Perre..

I hope you continue to love it when the sailing sims, which are funded by people like me and my partner and run at no profit by dedicated estate owners like our own, start disappearing and you can no longer go from "sim to sim." Though I presume since you enjoy using the OSs so much that you are yourself funding at least one to be used by the public for "sencery and beauty"?

hahahaa.....well said Triz

im laughing cause people are getting mad because they think others are doing it its everyone on them openspaces that live there have ther scripts there it wasnt meant for that it was meant for open water or just senery not liveing on and useing it as a busniess

Laughing,eh - I guess ignorance is bliss

Explain to me why
1. Linden Labd doubled the prim limit (don't need extra prims for water)
2. Linden Labs dropped the 4 pack requirement
3. Linden Labs dropped the requirement for it to be attached to a full prim sim (this is going to be a tough one as I can't understand why anyone would want to shell out 75 a month to place open water or a park on the open grid)
4. Linden Lab didn't block the subdivision and resale of parcels on these sims - explain why programing that into the product would have been so difficult.
5. Why Linden Labs has incorporated them into their mainland builds with more than parks and water


Does anyone thing that Linden Labs believed that 13,000 parks and waterways were being built on the grid?

Lastly, tell me why when I had an issue many months ago on my residential OS that when a LL employee, yes a LINDEN came to my parcel they told me how nicely it was done.


You obviously don'e know all the facts and are going by an outdated definition of the region.