Void sim $50 tier increase
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Tarina Sewell
Just Browsing Thank you
Join date: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,180
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10-28-2008 15:53
From: Oryx Tempel 2 Users Agreed. Welll, I pay and still I will be increased.. I was considering buying another openspace sim to go along with the carpe noctum island open space sim I have now next to my full sim, but I cna not afford it.. So Im pretty bummed because I wanted to get 2 more.. Now I wont I might as well get another full sim and I cna not possible afford the cost of a new one with todays economy..... Sooo I will hang on to the open space as long as I can but it is going to hurt the people who don't have sims that are not for profit or backed by big corporations who can write off the loss in taxes. This is going to be a struggle for the little guy or gal... Like me who work their ass off just to have an expensive hobby. TS |
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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10-28-2008 16:00
From: Cristalle Karami I consider myself the owner of all my virtual land because my only landlord is LL, who will not kick me off except for the most egregious of behavior, or nonpayment. I don't split that hair that way. Except with me? Doesn't the holder of the open space have the same arrangement (putatively) with the land 'owner'? In other words was there a need to correct me, really? |
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Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
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10-28-2008 16:03
From: Clarissa Lowell Except with me?
Doesn't the holder of the open space have the same arrangement (putatively) with the land 'owner'? In other words was there a need to correct me, really? Candidly, no, as we have seen from Jack's blog. I don't know your situation, please don't get sensitive. I just espouse the theory that if LL is your only landlord that you own it. Some people still call it leasing. It is definitely a lease if you cannot get one of your own directly from LL (read: you don't already own an estate). So when you say you will never own land, it tells me that you don't own an estate and don't own any mainland. That's all.
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Tarina Sewell
Just Browsing Thank you
Join date: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,180
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10-28-2008 16:03
From: Clarissa Lowell Except with me?
Doesn't the holder of the open space have the same arrangement (putatively) with the land 'owner'? In other words was there a need to correct me, really? We need to be united in this not divided. |
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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10-28-2008 16:05
Thank you Tarina, I agree.
Cristalle, I apologise for mistaking your intent. It just read a bit snippety.
Also, no one really *owns* land except the people who own SL - they lease it. But if I bought a parcel from a landowner and paid the tier - to me, I'd own that parcel.
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Tarina Sewell
Just Browsing Thank you
Join date: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,180
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10-28-2008 16:07
From: Hades Zapatero we own an OS, and yes we used it for our own personal residence, rarely went beyond 2000 prims, even when we allowed others to live there. Kept the scripts down, and enjoyed our privacy. Now, we will be forced out to a small plot on the mainland because, as we are not business owners we simply cannot afford this insane hike in tier. Nor can our friends we lease out to from time to time. Thank You Linden Labs, instead of punishing those who have the giant clubs and the mega marts on these sims, you are punishing the average person who chose to quietly go about there second live This I am afraid will happen to a lot of folks... |
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Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
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10-28-2008 16:08
From: Sredni Eel I may be out of bounds here, but why the hell would anyone want to pay $100 per month USD for land they can't build on?
I have an open sim. I built a little skybox on it, and my partner has built a Starblazers Yamato a bit higher up. We're thinking of dumping the open sim for other reasons, but if these sims are truly there just for people to look at and say, "oooh, scenery!" what is the point? It seems to me they were intended for light use, not non-use. Fly, drive, or sail on them. Lightly scripted areas for people to explore around your main business. Perhaps a treasure hunt for freebies. I'm guessing that sort of thing. Worth the money? I don't know. --Hugsy
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Hugsy Penguin
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Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
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10-28-2008 16:09
From: Ciaran Laval LL weren't going to clamp down on the misusers and there was no proviso on misuse. They just said they wouldn't support them. LL knew what these were being used for, they've been selling like hot cakes. From: Argent Stonecutter Yes, considering the way LL acted as an enabler for the abusers when they increased the prim limits. That was basically giving them the old "nudge nudge wink wink know-what-I-mean"... LL did wrong by making it seem as if the Openspaces could be used for more than what they (now) apparently wanted all along. However, they did make it reasonably clear what *not* to use them for, but some people went ahead and did it anyway. Without an official policy change, they were playing with fire. --Hugsy
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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10-28-2008 16:14
Hugsy, do you think the prices went up so people would stop buying them? ETA: because they were sick of people overbuilding, and taxing the 'grid' or whatever?
If they can't build a thing on them (not even a small house) or if that was LL's request/intention, what would be the upside to owning an open space, just for people to go *through*?
Seems like LL should front some of that, (ideally, not sure if it's feasible or not) and contribute to the overall happiness and aesthetics of players and sims that way.
Who'd want to pay that kind of money if they could not actually use the space? (To me, flying or sailing *through* is not practical usage.) I mean it's great if people can - it adds to the overall aesthetics to have open land or sea. But most people have to at least come close to breaking even. I don't see the logic in the increases, other than LL meeting cost I guess, especially when a lot of people are fearful of layoffs and expenditures in RL.
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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10-28-2008 16:30
From: Hugsy Penguin LL did wrong by making it seem as if the Openspaces could be used for more than what they (now) apparently wanted all along. However, they did make it reasonably clear what *not* to use them for, but some people went ahead and did it anyway. Without an official policy change, they were playing with fire.
--Hugsy A variation of the Bait and Switch |
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Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
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10-28-2008 16:31
From: Clarissa Lowell Hugsy, do you think the prices went up so people would stop buying them? ETA: because they were sick of people overbuilding, and taxing the 'grid' or whatever?
If they can't build a thing on them (not even a small house) or if that was LL's request/intention, what would be the upside to owning an open space, just for people to go *through*?
Seems like LL should front some of that, (ideally, not sure if it's feasible or not) and contribute to the overall happiness and aesthetics of players and sims that way.
Who'd want to pay that kind of money if they could not actually use the space? (To me, flying or sailing *through* is not practical usage.) I mean it's great if people can - it adds to the overall aesthetics to have open land or sea. But most people have to at least come close to breaking even. I don't see the logic in the increases, other than LL meeting cost I guess, especially when a lot of people are fearful of layoffs and expenditures in RL. I don't know why exactly they're increasing their price. They say too many people are overusing them and it's straining their network/database infrastructure. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Maybe they mean it when they say they don't want people putting homes, businesses, rentals, etc... on them. So they're raising the price to make them unprofitable. Nobody points to LL as a company who always makes wise business decisions. Are they worth the money? Maybe to some people. Regardless of what they did and how it seemed, they never changed their official policy. It was risky business. --Hugsy
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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10-28-2008 16:38
I guess it was, but probably few expected a drastic measure like this. Landowners will pass this along to their OS leasers/owners, and so on. Unless the OS residents had a contract stating there would be no increase in tiers for them, which I can't imagine many landowners offered.
Kind of creating a feudal system, isn't it?
(Happy with my 512 and a bit let down too. There went my vision of a humble home on a tiny island.)
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Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
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10-28-2008 16:42
BTW, here's the BLOG entry where they announced the changes to Openspaces: http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/07/announcing-changes-to-the-openspace-product/ No mention of change in what they can be used for, however they did reiterate they're "intended for light use countryside or ocean." --Hugsy
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Clarissa Lowell
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Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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10-28-2008 16:43
No, not officially. I just wondered if that may have been why.
You did also say that they mentioned the 'drag on their resources'.
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Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
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10-28-2008 17:07
As has been pointed out before, the irony is that the ones who can soak this price increase is likely to be the ones who can dilute it by spreading it out between several tenants and businesses, i.e. exactly the ones supposedly misusing the openspaces
The ones really taking the hit are the individuals who foot the bill personally, for their own creative vision.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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10-28-2008 17:08
Having watched the official thread all day (yes, I know it's sad), RA seems a very peaceful place - sort of like a nice peaceful OS sim where you can just kick off your shoes, lay back and relax after a long day. It's not at all what I expect here. I miss the old place  |
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Clarissa Lowell
Gone. G'bye.
Join date: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 3,020
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10-28-2008 17:09
Do they lack resources to go in and check on open spaces to see who's abusing the prims and do something about it that way? Seems harsh to punish everyone, and as you say, tighten the clamps on those who are actually making SL a more beautiful/creative place.
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Tali Rosca
Plywood Whisperer
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 767
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10-28-2008 17:11
From: Phil Deakins Having watched the official thread all day (yes, I know it's sad), RA seems a very peaceful place - sort of like a nice peaceful OS sim where you can just kick off your shoes, lay back and relax after a long day. It's not at all what I expect here. I miss the old place Actually, even the official thread has been surprisingly civil, all things considered. |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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10-28-2008 17:13
From: Tali Rosca Actually, even the official thread has been surprisingly civil, all things considered. Yes it has, but only because almost everyone directs their anger at LL, and LL isn't responding, so there's no fighting. |
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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10-28-2008 17:16
And here's a blog entry citing the success of the move, by which time it was clear as day they weren't being used as countryside or ocean: http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/07/08/second-life-virtual-world-expands-35-in-q2/Note how they again sell them in that blog, and this is really why there's now complaint about Linden Lab's decision. |
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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10-28-2008 17:24
From: Hugsy Penguin I don't know why exactly they're increasing their price. They say too many people are overusing them and it's straining their network/database infrastructure. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Charging more for them doesn't prevent overuse in any way though. I don't doubt that there quite a few people who won't blink an eye at paying $125/month for an openspace and they'll just keep on using it the way they always have and it will keep on impacting other openspaces on the same server and nothing has really changed, except that LL is getting $50/month more. It would actually seem likely that more people who currently have a light use openspace (barely used for anything, just sitting there as waterways) might drop those than people who are making full use (or overloaded use) of them in which case the negative impact of one openspace on another would become worse than it is today (less empty unused ones to serve as buffer) rather than improve. |
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Joss Noel
is clueless!
Join date: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 201
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10-28-2008 19:35
I am curious about the effect this will have on Land Prices in general. Anyone have any thoughts?
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Argos Hawks
Eclectically Esoteric
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,037
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10-28-2008 20:33
From: Joss Noel I am curious about the effect this will have on Land Prices in general. Anyone have any thoughts? In the Land Sales forum here, there's 15 full sims being advertised for $350, 1 for $300, a block of 4 openspaces together for $300, and an unspecified number of full sims for only the transfer fee plus the amount of tier that gets transferred. How's that for a price drop? Don't get excited by the prices yet. 2 different people last night in the Concierge Information Group said that a Linden insider told them that full sim tier was going up in the first quarter of 2009. I've got no way to verify that, but it doesn't seem like coincidence that some people make drastic moves with thier sims a day or two before big announcements. LL has its leaks, and the one I'm hearing (not from a Linden source) suggests $495/month for all private sims coming soon. With no grandfathering. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
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Alicia Sautereau
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Join date: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,125
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10-28-2008 23:48
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Tarina Sewell
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Join date: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 2,180
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10-29-2008 06:40
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