What are your opinions on this? And have you been a victim of avatar discrimination? If so, how, and why?
No, I haven't. I suppose I hang out with a better class of degenerates.
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Avatar discrimination |
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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11-29-2009 16:45
What are your opinions on this? And have you been a victim of avatar discrimination? If so, how, and why? No, I haven't. I suppose I hang out with a better class of degenerates. _____________________
![]() http://www.avatarsunited.com/avatars/milla-janick All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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11-29-2009 16:55
It's what's inside the box that counts... grin
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Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
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11-29-2009 18:50
I have to say that I don't understand the way that some people think. For me, the cardboard box av is a terrific idea (I can't imagine how it walks without legs though). _____________________
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Void Singer
Int vSelf = Sing(void);
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,973
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11-29-2009 18:52
For example, I prefer to use Linux as opposed to Windows mainly because I don't like to follow the crowd. basing what you do on whether or not others do it seems like a pretty boring (not to mention pointless) decision process. For the past few months, I've been walking around as a Furry. Ok, they're not entirely rare. However, they're not typical of your average male SL user. However, I soon found that many people would simply ignore or judge those who have Furry avatars. I therefore wondered what I could do about it. SL is social media, people associate with those that they appear to have something in common with, they ignore or avoid those they don't, unless given a reason to. non-verbal communications are important. My answer was to become a cardboard box. Silly, yes. However, it's relatively unique. In addition, it says little about me and gives nothing away. Not only that, it puts some emphasis on the fact that it's what's inside that counts. (my new motto, heh!) you aren't the first, you won't be the last. trust me, it's only a hair more unique than a rezzed cube. Problem solved? No! I've recently found myself being banned from some places like Dance Island simply because they don't like the way I look. (My avatar uses a crusher animation and is by no means oversized and is only marginally wider than your average male in SL) But on the other hand, it's much shorter in height. Not only that, but some people have made negative comments about my appearance and feel that people should not look like that on SL. non-verbal communication, again.... Sure, they're entitled to do this as they set the rules. In the same way they're entitled to ban fat people if they so wished. (Not suggesting that they do) However, does that make it acceptable? I think not. all social grouping have unwritten standards, apparently you failed to live up to those standards... What are your opinions on this? And have you been a victim of avatar discrimination? If so, how, and why? frequently, the difference being that I know why and it doesn't bother me. instead of forcing others to conform to your world view, or worse cutting off almost all non-verbal cues (which comes off as some sort of emo cry for attention) perhaps you should try entering into their world, adding your own twist, and if you find you don't like it, you can always move on? or simply do what most everyone does and find the social grouping that can appreciate (or at least tolerate) your vision. and really? you chose an almost imperceptible means of communicating your imagination in a place that has near limitless possibilities for expression, and were surprised by the negative reaction. that kind of thing might fly with an art school professor, but in social circles it reads like you are boring, dull, and not worth talking to. _____________________
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Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
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11-29-2009 18:55
... Still, I know where it's appropriate. . _____________________
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Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
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11-29-2009 19:09
Yes, the classic answer of the southern segregationist: free association. Its a typical example of taking something that can be used for good and using it to do injury. I would say that I disagree with avatar discrimination on a general sense - with exceptions for bad conduct or for avatars representing strongly negative associations for negative reasons. - ie: I would ban a skinhead avatar (but not a bald or punk avatar). - I would ban a child Lolita avatar (but not a child avatar). - I would ban a talking tummy pregnant avatar from a sex/dating club, but not in general (though I might require them to turn off the chatty part). But if an avatar is completely neutral, unless the location is a roleplay location looking to promote a specific theme, good ethical behavior is to let it in. To ban for unjust cause is a morally poor choice, and such people should be hounded for it. They may have the right, but they lack the justification. Free association is a fundamental right, but it does not outweigh due process and equal protection, and their related rights to freedom from discrimination. - Neither in law (of the US and the western democracies), nor in ethics. If someone in the real world or in SL wants to set aside their own personal property for the purpose of excluding people singularly or in groups, I might feel superior to them, but I'll defend their right to do what they want so long as they remain discreet and discrete. All in all it's easier to avoid or ignore people who hurt your feelings than it is to change the world so that it never happens. _____________________
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Esquievel Easterwood
Deer in the headlights
Join date: 25 Oct 2008
Posts: 220
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11-29-2009 19:14
It's not a shameful thing to be a box. Consider other famous rectangular containers in history and literature: Creighton Abrams, Sidney Carton, the Bachs--J.S., J.C., C.P.E. and P.D.Q.; Boxers both Barbara and Simon & Garfunkel. Some boxers are shorts too, but nobody holds that against them. I like to keep my shorts close against me but I digress...
The problem lies in being a box in a bag world. It is the essential conundrum of fitting the square peg into the round hole, writ large. It contains multitudes. Prejudice exists, but not only against boxes. Indeed, many see bags in a bad light as well. Recall the Velarans, who called human beings "ugly bags of mostly water". In the end, it simply is not enough to be a candid wrapper. Tis a poor workman who blames his tools, and if all you have is a box, then everything begins to look like a cornflake. We all have our dreams--and Punky's was, indeed, to be a cornflake, floatin' in his bowl, takin' movies...relaxin' awhile, livin' in... but I digress. Oh yes, dreams. We all dream of a world where everyone is accepted anywhere, any time, by everyone. We all dream of a virtual world where we can make the rules to be just as we would wish. The one thing we just can't seem to do is combine those two dreams into one. Can we? |
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Kaimi Kyomoon
Kah-EE-mee
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 5,664
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11-29-2009 19:17
It's not a shameful thing to be a box. Consider other famous rectangular containers in history and literature: Creighton Abrams, Sidney Carton, the Bachs--J.S., J.C., C.P.E. and P.D.Q.; Boxers both Barbara and Simon & Garfunkel. Some boxers are shorts too, but nobody holds that against them. I like to keep my shorts close against me but I digress... The problem lies in being a box in a bag world. It is the essential conundrum of fitting the square peg into the round hole, writ large. It contains multitudes. Prejudice exists, but not only against boxes. Indeed, many see bags in a bad light as well. Recall the Velarans, who called human beings "ugly bags of mostly water". In the end, it simply is not enough to be a candid wrapper. Tis a poor workman who blames his tools, and if all you have is a box, then everything begins to look like a cornflake. We all have our dreams--and Punky's was, indeed, to be a cornflake, floatin' in his bowl, takin' movies...relaxin' awhile, livin' in... but I digress. Oh yes, dreams. We all dream of a world where everyone is accepted anywhere, any time, by everyone. We all dream of a virtual world where we can make the rules to be just as we would wish. The one thing we just can't seem to do is combine those two dreams into one. Can we? _____________________
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Dagmar Heideman
Bokko Dancer
Join date: 2 Feb 2007
Posts: 989
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11-29-2009 19:17
In case no one told you, SL is not a democracy. |
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Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
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11-29-2009 19:26
............. His POV is a bit self centered and short sighted. Bingo!! And so like many who choose to be different for the sake of being different.......and wonder why being different brings them problems of being accepted by the folks who choose not to be different. Funny or pathetic..........I'm not sure which but I usually lean toward the pathetic. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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11-29-2009 19:35
Boring.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Sebastian Joliat
Registered User
Join date: 2 Jul 2006
Posts: 64
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11-29-2009 19:42
ok - this is Xmas season, boxes are in demand.
That bein' said, club owners have a right to dictate what kinda folks/avies they allow in. At telehubs though, a cardboard box would intrigue me, and, we'd chat |
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Scylla Rhiadra
Gentle is Human
Join date: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 4,427
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11-29-2009 20:09
Further, in the OPs case, avatar shape is as malleable as and is the equivalent of clothing in real life. It is no more than a chosen expression of self on an extremely individualistic level. It is not an immutable characteristic such as race, gender, age, sexual orientation or gender identification that exists for individuals in real life, nor is it something fundamentally more institutional such as religion or culture. THIS is the key point, and what differentiates between legitimate "discrimination" (i.e., you must wear a tie here, you can't be a box) and illegitimate and indefensible prejudice (We don't serve blacks here). _____________________
Scylla Rhiadra
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Melita Magic
On my own terms.
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,253
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11-29-2009 20:58
Happy Boxing Day!
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TundraFire Nightfire
Permafrostbilly
Join date: 5 Apr 2008
Posts: 532
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11-29-2009 21:22
The few times I've gone to Zindra I went disguised wearing a pink camouflage box. You couldn't see anything of my human avatar under the box.
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ARCTIC FIRE
http://slurl.com/secondlife/nordica/90/250/22 "OK, so what's the speed of dark?" |
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Amity Slade
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,183
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11-29-2009 21:25
Sounds like it is entirely acceptable to me. But then I fully support the rights of both property and free association (which without the right to NOT associate is worthless). Why do you have the need to go where you aren't wanted? Why should you be able to force your beliefs on someone else just because you want to visit their private property? If one only wants one's specific invitees on one's property, one should not open it up to the public. |
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Amity Slade
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,183
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11-29-2009 21:28
A cardboard box is more interesting than Frankenbarbie.
Perhaps others' objections are not because you are a cardboard box, but because you are Emo ("Fragile - Handle With Care" . |
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Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
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11-29-2009 21:31
If one only wants one's specific invitees on one's property, one should not open it up to the public. And are you one who also would piss and moan about ban lines? ![]() |
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Melita Magic
On my own terms.
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,253
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11-29-2009 21:31
Perhaps others' objections are not because you are a cardboard box, but because you are Emo ("Fragile - Handle With Care" .Would a temp rez box be stamped Perishable? |
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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11-29-2009 21:33
Unless a resident is using their avatar to cause a distruption, I'm unclear why it would be in a business owner's interest to ban anyone based on appearance.
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![]() http://www.avatarsunited.com/avatars/milla-janick All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... |
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TundraFire Nightfire
Permafrostbilly
Join date: 5 Apr 2008
Posts: 532
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11-29-2009 21:35
Would a temp rez box be stamped Perishable? I occasionally walk around with an ice block on my head. Theoretically, that could be perishable. _____________________
ARCTIC FIRE
http://slurl.com/secondlife/nordica/90/250/22 "OK, so what's the speed of dark?" |
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Melita Magic
On my own terms.
Join date: 5 Jun 2008
Posts: 2,253
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11-29-2009 21:37
I occasionally walk around with an ice block on my head. Theoretically, that could be perishable. :^) That's brilliant. Especially if it also is melting. |
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Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
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11-29-2009 21:37
Unless a resident is using their avatar to cause a distruption, I'm unclear why it would be in a business owner's interest to ban anyone based on appearance. A desired mood or image for the place of business that the owner might want to create or maintain. Just one reason. |
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Amity Slade
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,183
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11-29-2009 21:39
And are you one who also would piss and moan about ban lines? ![]() I don't recall ever complaining about anyone's ban lines. |
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Peggy Paperdoll
A Brat
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 4,383
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11-29-2009 21:45
I don't recall ever complaining about anyone's ban lines. That's good........niether do I. But saying someone should close their land or place of business to only "invited" guest if they want the option of rejecting some based on some criteria that you feel is not fair is pretty dictatorial in my view. It's their land or place of business, they can decide.......not you or anyone else. |