Avatar discrimination

Hi all,

I am posting here because I'd like to hear your thoughts on a matter which has been bothering me recently.

On Second Life, I've noticed a lot of discrimination against the way people choose to look.

As for me, I like to be different on Second Life. I find that many people all look relatively similar. For example, a model like avatar, with perfectly styled hair, perfect skin, shape and large biceps is all very typical for that of a male in Second Life. However, I choose to be different. Why? Just personal preference I guess. It goes beyond SL too. For example, I prefer to use Linux as opposed to Windows mainly because I don't like to follow the crowd.

For the past few months, I've been walking around as a Furry. Ok, they're not entirely rare. However, they're not typical of your average male SL user. However, I soon found that many people would simply ignore or judge those who have Furry avatars. I therefore wondered what I could do about it.

My answer was to become a cardboard box. Silly, yes. However, it's relatively unique. In addition, it says little about me and gives nothing away. Not only that, it puts some emphasis on the fact that it's what's inside that counts. (my new motto, heh!)

Problem solved? No! I've recently found myself being banned from some places like Dance Island simply because they don't like the way I look. (My avatar uses a crusher animation and is by no means oversized and is only marginally wider than your average male in SL) But on the other hand, it's much shorter in height. Not only that, but some people have made negative comments about my appearance and feel that people should not look like that on SL.

Sure, they're entitled to do this as they set the rules. In the same way they're entitled to ban fat people if they so wished. (Not suggesting that they do) However, does that make it acceptable? I think not.

What are your opinions on this? And have you been a victim of avatar discrimination? If so, how, and why?

Cheers

Exa

My SL pic:

Sounds like it is entirely acceptable to me. But then I fully support the rights of both property and free association (which without the right to NOT associate is worthless). Why do you have the need to go where you aren't wanted? Why should you be able to force your beliefs on someone else just because you want to visit their private property?

Does the box have a label saying "Do not open until Friday?"

Pep (It really depends on what colour and shape the box is.)

This whole argument is silly. You expect to go to places like Dance Island as a (what? hopping?) cardboard box and not be looked at strangely? Seems you are rather trying to stir a ruckus on purpose.

I have to say that I don't understand the way that some people think. For me, the cardboard box av is a terrific idea (I can't imagine how it walks without legs though).

Well, if you're brave enough and you -really- wanna see some avatar discrimination, I suppose I could make a suggestion...

They might simply want a sim that looks and feels real, and walking, talking animals or cardboxes simply might not have a place there.
As you said its their right to decide what goes and what doesn't on their land.

I've never seen someone banned for being fat. I've seen some fat people get banned, but that was because they were griefing everyone, and just figured by being fat they can be even more annoying. But they'd have been banned if they would look "normal" (for SL) too.

I think you are perfectly allowed to be a cardboard box, but be aware that you may be taken at face value. If you are treated like a box, that's only showing respect for your lifestyle choice.

Well, if you went to a club in real life, and were turned away because they didn't like how you looked, how would you feel? Sure, you can change your appearance on Second Life, but that's not the point. And yes, I understand that Second Life is not entirely comparable to real life, but in this instance, I would say the same principle applies. People should have the freedom to choose how they look, providing it does not have a negative impact on other users.

At the end of the day, my avatar does not inconvenience any other user. (i.e. it's not large) In addition, it's not obscene and cannot cause offense. So what's the problem?

The fact that they're allowed to ban people for whatever they like, does not change the fact that this is a form of discrimination. In the same way that it would be discrimination if they chose to disallow fat people from accessing their sim. Whilst it may not be a violation of Linden Lab's Terms of Service, it still leads me to question whether or not it's morally acceptable. And that was my motive for creating this thread.

Ex

Whatever graphics program you use very likely has a resize feature. Or a crop feature. Both can be helpful when posting images.

Non-human avatars are, in fact, NOT rare in SL although, as you pointed out, they are not in the majority. Nor is a cardboard box particularly novel, at least not in the circles I travel.

The trick is to know how to dress in the places you visit. In RL, you wouldn't show up in your swimming trunks in a fancy restaurant, would you? Why expect anything different here? Some SL regions take great pains to create a certain environment so that people can have an immersive experience.
It is not your "right" to destroy that for them. No one discriminates against a cardboard box. It just doesn't work with the aims of the places that ask you to leave.

You weren't born as a cardboard box and your appearance is of your own making. If you wish to dance, grow some legs and put on some clothes.

(I like to travel in SL and there's nothing worse than immersing yourself into an adventure of exploration only to have Lushius Bumblebottom fly by on her particle-spewing unicorn because she feels pretty on it)

I'm not sure if I have any animations for that... rolling maybe? Or a box tos attachment?

You might run into trouble if you go to the Adult areas as a little box...

If he does that, he needs to make sure there are no holes in the box.

I would say they might've suspected you were a griefer as the avatar may seem to them to be more a way to get attention whilst not interacting. Possibly you should IM and explain you are a perfectly nice cardboard box and aren't trying to ruin their fun.

but partical spewing unicorns are so very lovely.

If you go to a very conventional place wishing to be unconventional there could just be a little friction.

It comes down to the fact that you find it acceptable to use force against people because of how they use their property. A use which in no way harms you. You have no right to go on some else's property. Like I said, I see nothing morally wrong with discrimination. Everyone discriminates every day. Or do you go on a date with everyone who asks you? I find your acceptance of force to be morally wrong.

My only thought was that they might not wanna be reminded about how many boxes they're going to have to deal with this season.

Oh, for fuck's sake, just grow up and go somewhere else to hop around. In case no one told you, SL is not a democracy.

Between the ages of 18-23 i went to many clubs in L.A. where how you look determined whether or not you got in the club or were even allowed in line.

I think the box is cute though, chin up.

Either get with the program or go where there are others like yourself. If you wish to have a social experience, you have to try as well, and not put such a burden on those you encounter by looking completely oddball/weird.

I get crap with how i look too, so i understand you.

I think you should have whatever avatar you like. I regularly use a tiny moth avatar, but for a little while I was a black sphere.

To tell the truth, it was difficult, even though I'd taken on the sphere for somewhat anti-social reasons.

BUT

there is no reason for you to look like "everyone". There are unusual looking human avatars, and you can alter your shape so you don't look like Barbie.

All that said, a dance club can ban you for whatever reason they like.
.

On the rare occasions I go to Dance Island, you can bet it's not as a beagle. A non-human avatar IS a great way to express yourself however, and it says a little about your personality without ever having to key a word in chat.

Still, I know where it's appropriate.



.

Troublemaker.

Yes, the classic answer of the southern segregationist: free association. Its a typical example of taking something that can be used for good and using it to do injury.

I would say that I disagree with avatar discrimination on a general sense - with exceptions for bad conduct or for avatars representing strongly negative associations for negative reasons.
- ie: I would ban a skinhead avatar (but not a bald or punk avatar).
- I would ban a child Lolita avatar (but not a child avatar).
- I would ban a talking tummy pregnant avatar from a sex/dating club, but not in general (though I might require them to turn off the chatty part).

But if an avatar is completely neutral, unless the location is a roleplay location looking to promote a specific theme, good ethical behavior is to let it in.

To ban for unjust cause is a morally poor choice, and such people should be hounded for it. They may have the right, but they lack the justification.

Free association is a fundamental right, but it does not outweigh due process and equal protection, and their related rights to freedom from discrimination.
- Neither in law (of the US and the western democracies), nor in ethics.

Like I said to the other person. you support the use of force against the innocent. You argue for slavery. What else is it but slavery when you tell me what I can and cannot do with the fruits of my labors or who I can or cannot associate with? Like I asked the other person, do you date every one who asks you out? If not, you discriminate. Do you work for the employer who pays you less than another would, if not, you discriminate. Call me all the names you want. "Racist" just means I am winning the argument. Free association and the right to the fruits of your own labors trump any so called right "to not be discriminated against." If you don't like someone's policies, don't give them your money. Freedom, try it, it works every time.