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Bye bye traffic bots

Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
04-24-2009 15:37
From: Sling Trebuchet
I don't get the connection.
And right there is your problem - getting the connection - or, more precisely, getting your little grey cells to connect with each other.
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Amity Slade
Registered User
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 2,183
04-24-2009 15:42
From: Argent Stonecutter
Why do you think that having a single idle avatar that's actually the owner of the shop is going to get you slapped as a "bot"?


"We are setting policy that attempting to gain an unfair Search advantage, by the use of Bots to inflate the Traffic for a parcel, will be considered a violation."

Sometimes- not always, but sometimes- I leave my avatar logged in hours at a time solely for the purpose of increasing Traffic numbers.

There is no definition of "Bot" that excludes my unattended avatar.

There is no clear definition of "unfair." However, the preceding sentence states, "Almost everyone agrees that using Bots to manipulate traffic (and therefore Search rankings) is unfair." Manipulating traffic is per se "unfair", which really makes "unfair Search advantage" redundant.

And there is no language that indicates that the fact that I only have one avatar logged in, rather than two or more, makes any difference.

There is no language that suggests whether the owner of the land controls the avatar, or someone else, makes any difference.

Every second I leave my avatar logged in unattended violates this new policy.
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
04-24-2009 15:52
From: Sling Trebuchet
Well, I understand why people game traffic. I understand why people steal, kill, torture, etc.


Away and shite, stealing, killing and torture is generally illegal.

From: Sling Trebuchet
Then I criticise the activity.
You seem to have a problem with me doing so.
You tell me to look around and see politicians, bankers, etc. How is this relevant?
We both seem to understand why they do it.
It's just that you seem to have a problem with me describing their activities as dishonest.


I have no problem whatsoever with you calling it dishonest, this is a classic Slingism, utter nonsense. I have a problem with you expecting people within the rules to just give it up. It requires legislation for this to happen, that's why we have umpteen consumer laws. This is a lot different to me saying it's acceptable to engage in such practices. You sullied my character with no evidence of what I think.

From: Sling Trebuchet
I don't have a lot of choice in choosing a 3D virtual world that allows content creation. I'm a realist. I can do business with LL but I don't in any way have to behave in an unethical fashion within SL simply because I disagree with some of the ways they operate.
I can understand why they act that way, but you may have noticed that I don't hesitate to call attention to the way they act.


If you're so ethically against such manipulations you wouldn't still be here, you excuse LL because it's the only club in town? That's not an ethical position, that's my position. They do things I don't agree with but if I say I won't buy from so and so because of x, I won't buy from so and so because of x, but the real world impedes our ability to take such stances. Calling attention and criticising is fine, but saying I ethically won't do this and then doing it is hypocritical.


From: Sling Trebuchet
I do have a lot of choice in choosing an in-world person with whom I would socialise or do business.


If your ethics are based on your choice then they are not ethics, they're choices. Ethics are consistent decisions. Without consistency ethics are meaningless.


From: Sling Trebuchet
While "no reference to alcohol in PG" lived as a proposal, I had no hesitation in waving a huge red flag and shouting "Look. It's a pub"
That's not pushing the boundaries. That's coat-trailing. That's being provocative in order to call attention to the ridiculousness of the proposed change.[


The provocation was not in my own direct self-interest. The pub bit of that PG land would have been modified out of existence without any regret if needs be. It didn't really matter.
My interest was in using it to highlight one of the idiocies in the proposed changes to SL.
I plead guilty to promoting the interests of people in general.


No you were pushing boundaries, you said "AR me or be damned" well that's not a direct quote but that was your position, whilst no reference to alcohol in PG existed, the boundary was no alcohol in PG, you were prepared to push it. I agree very much with you on how nonsensical that PG rating was but the boundary was set.


From: Sling Trebuchet
"Pushing the boundaries" is:
Running traffic bots right up to the time that LL outlaw them.
Running other search-gaming not (yet) outlawed by the TOS


You tell me to look at what dishonest politicians, banker and businesses are doing in RL. The implication is that doing so would make me cease to criticise people who game search in SL. I don't get the connection.


I would absolutely never imply that you should never criticise or challenge. My point is that expecting people who are doing well to give up the tricks they abuse to do well requires legislation.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-24-2009 16:50
I can't but shake my head.

Traffic Bots are FINALLY going to be banned.

And we still have a thread basically debating whether or not trafficbotting should be allowed.


Lulz.


Wonder if this will be like those gambling should be allowed threads, more than a year after gambling was banned.


Oh and Pie and Chip *high five*


that is all.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-24-2009 16:51
Oh wait


PS


\0/
Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
04-24-2009 17:20
From: Ciaran Laval
......
I would absolutely never imply that you should never criticise or challenge. My point is that expecting people who are doing well to give up the tricks they abuse to do well requires legislation.


Your point is that dishonest and unethical people will continue to act unethically unless specific laws are passed to forbid the particular unethical activity.
Yes. I realise that some people are like that.

My point is and always has been that these people are dishonest and unethical.
You seem to have some problems with my point.
What is your problem with this?

LL have now bestirred themselves so far as to describe traffic-botting as unfair. Do you disagree?
Do you thing that LL only formed the opinion of unfairness *after* they decided arbitrarily to outlaw traffic-botting?

What made traffic-botting unfair?
Was it only LL's decision to outlaw it?
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
04-24-2009 17:21
From: Colette Meiji
I can't but shake my head.

Traffic Bots are FINALLY going to be banned.

And we still have a thread basically debating whether or not trafficbotting should be allowed.


I'm really opposed to prim taxes! What do you all think?
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
04-24-2009 17:29
From: Colette Meiji
......

And we still have a thread basically debating whether or not trafficbotting should be allowed.

...


We do?
What thread is that??
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Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
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Puppet Shepherd
New Year, New Tricks
Join date: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 725
04-24-2009 17:32
First, they took away the adfarms. Now, the traffic bots. Next, they're moving all the pr0n to the nudy continent. I'm gonna run out of distasteful things to pee on!
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
04-24-2009 17:38
From: Sling Trebuchet
Your point is that dishonest and unethical people will continue to act unethically unless specific laws are passed to forbid the particular unethical activity.
Yes. I realise that some people are like that.

My point is and always has been that these people are dishonest and unethical.
You seem to have some problems with my point.
What is your problem with this?


I don't have a problem with your point, I have a problem with your double standards of engaging with one guilty party but not another but I don't have a problem with you calling it out and never have. Good luck finding a post where I've said traffic bots are an honest reflection of anything.

From: Sling Trebuchet
LL have now bestirred themselves so far as to describe traffic-botting as unfair. Do you disagree?
Do you thing that LL only formed the opinion of unfairness *after* they decided arbitrarily to outlaw traffic-botting?

What made traffic-botting unfair?
Was it only LL's decision to outlaw it?


I've said several times that traffic bots artificially inflate traffic, do you want me to say it again? Traffic bots artifically inflate traffic.
Nyoko Salome
kittytailmeowmeow
Join date: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,378
04-24-2009 17:46
From: Marianne McCann
I'm really opposed to prim taxes! What do you all think?


;0 lolz 'those who do not remember history
are doomed to repeat it' ;0
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
04-24-2009 18:05
From: Ciaran Laval
I don't have a problem with your point, I have a problem with your double standards of engaging with one guilty party but not another but I don't have a problem with you calling it out and never have. Good luck finding a post where I've said traffic bots are an honest reflection of anything.
...


Well, if that's your only issue, then it's very simple.

The world is full of things that are imperfect. This can be due to weakness/incompetence and/or villainy.

I choose to engage in SL as I see the potential in it.
I recognise the bad points and I agitate for improvements - from the most effective stance - inside.
I see that the the combined efforts of residents can change things for the better.

Your idea of a principled stance would be that I should stay outside of SL until such time as LL run it as an unblemished world from an unblemished company.In the case of something of the scale of SL, I chose to work from the inside.


I wouldn't use the same insider approach for in-world Search-gamers. That approach would be to join the places' groups and use group IMs to rail against the gaming. - and/or stand in the stores and chat my objections to anyone around.
The approach would be sub-optimal. My ass would be banned from those stores and groups in seconds flat.


There is no double standard.
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Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
04-24-2009 18:10
From: Sling Trebuchet
Well, if that's your only issue, then it's very simple.

The world is full of things that are imperfect.


This was my point effing pages ago, but you accused me of being untrustworthy for making such a point.
Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
04-24-2009 18:13
From: Puppet Shepherd
First, they took away the adfarms. Now, the traffic bots. Next, they're moving all the pr0n to the nudy continent. I'm gonna run out of distasteful things to pee on!

There will always be newbies
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
04-24-2009 18:27
From: Ciaran Laval
This was my point effing pages ago, but you accused me of being untrustworthy for making such a point.


If you read back the effing pages, you will see that you made the point with the implication that it should in some way temper my criticism of dishonesty within SL.
It was this implication that made me question your trustworthiness.
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Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
04-24-2009 18:39
From: Sling Trebuchet
If you read back the effing pages, you will see that you made the point with the implication that it should in some way temper my criticism of dishonesty within SL.
It was this implication that made me question your trustworthiness.


This would be the post where I said that most people don't actually care how they find content but would agree if asked that using traffic bots wasn't fair....
Tabliopa Underwood
Registered User
Join date: 6 Aug 2007
Posts: 719
04-24-2009 18:54
From: Nyoko Salome
;0 klingons do not traffic/campbot. there is no honor in it. (it's a ferenghi thing. ;0)
:)
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-24-2009 19:23
From: Sling Trebuchet
We do?
What thread is that??


Pssst.
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-24-2009 19:25
From: Marianne McCann
I'm really opposed to prim taxes! What do you all think?


Prim taxes should be allowed!

and what the hell is up with my ratings? they wont update properly on my profile anymore.
Felix Oxide
Registered User
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 655
04-24-2009 19:29
From: Colette Meiji
Prim taxes should be allowed!

and what the hell is up with my ratings? they wont update properly on my profile anymore.
Lets get 20 people together and go hang out at a telehub and give negative ratings to everyone that ports in! :p
Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
04-24-2009 21:06
From: Felix Oxide
Lets get 20 people together and go hang out at a telehub and give negative ratings to everyone that ports in! :p


Can't, I'll be posting some new anti-war messages on the Jesse Wall!
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"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden
"If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world :)" - Prospero Linden
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-25-2009 05:00
Now for something more modern..

Lets bring back Ginko

cmon you know you all miss Nick P.
Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
More groovy ideas
04-25-2009 05:12
Now that those pesky bots are out of the way, shouldn't places with lots of traffic get some L$ bonus for creating popular content?

Oh, I know: LL should distribute little devices so visitors can vote for the parcel, too!
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
04-25-2009 05:19
From: Starfire Desade
So, the dots are actually soylent green?


The bot dots are Silent Green
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Maggie: We give our residents a lot of tools, to build, create, and manage their lands and objects. That flexibility also requires people to exercise judgment about when things should be used.
http://www.ace-exchange.com/home/story/BDVR/589
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
04-25-2009 05:22
From: Qie Niangao
Now that those pesky bots are out of the way, shouldn't places with lots of traffic get some L$ bonus for creating popular content?

Oh, I know: LL should distribute little devices so visitors can vote for the parcel, too!



Yeah! And the top 10 or 20 places or whatever can get a little payout on top of that bonus. Some kind of Developer Incentive.


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But don't call bots pesky - Bring them back!!
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