Bye bye traffic bots

Id be over the moon if 5 shops stocked good pairs of white shoes let alone 500 - and generally Id look for a good pair on xstreet, get the makers name do a search on the maker in world and go to his shop.

Nothing to do with the number of people who go there....

why would the number of people who go to a shop help me choose when I make no reference to that statistic....

go to his or her shop

apologies for that slip up

People in general do that and they do it in search by looking at the top ranked places - hence the desirability of being ranked up there.

Small correction:
It's the *only* metric that determines placement (rankings) in the Places tab search - it's the only metric there is for that search. The effect of traffic in the All search is so tiny that nobody would use traffic bots for it.

I don't wear shoes, they cramp my paws... but replacing shoes with something I actually buy... I look for names I recognize from conversations with people, and if I don't see any I generally start with one on the second page of the search (or third or later for "all search" because it has so few results on each page), because I expect that most of the top picks are spam. Because for the past couple of years the top page sites have tended to dump me in a camping hole or bot farm.

I generally go to XStreetSL and do a search with cheapest 1st and see what's on offer.
I may do a search for most popular and highest rated also.

Sometime get astounding items for excellent prices.

Don't use the actual search in SL much at all now.


===edit===

Actually to be honest, being near the top of the search listings often does nothing for me.

For something like skins. The very last thing I'd want to buy is a skin from any provider at the top of any search list.

May sound odd, but I'd rather have an unusual/different (but nice) skin from an unknown at the very bottom of the search list than buying anything from some of the most popular stores.

Who wants to do around looking like everyone else?

The cheapest and work my way up

People search in different ways.

When i first arrived in SL, I tended to use XStreet to search out items, make a note of creator and visit store in world.....in some cases i would buy direct from the website. Since the implementation of ALL Search i have used that almost exclusively. I particularly like the products listing page......i can pin point the co-ordinates of the searched product and not waste time walking around aimlessly. I sometimes use Classifieds, but i never use Places Search. A Linden implied that ALL Search was the most popular used search mechanism.
I find XStreet a bit frustrating at times as you get a listing containing tons of non-related items. I guess it must be something to do with Keywords used. I always thought when you listed an item on XSteet you had to select a chosen category for it to appear.....but whilst looking for a Translator i found Jewelry items, you have to wonder what is going on!!

Actually when I search inworld I never go to the places with the highest traffic, at least not at first. I usually start with places with traffic in the 4-digit range or less and only work my way back up if i don't find what I'm looking for.

You have no idea what my ethics are, I'm just a realist, you're living in fantasy island. Take a look around you, bankers, politicians and their expenses, exploting third world labour, industrial espionage, bullying suppliers into lowering their prices, not paying up on time, illegal terms of service, small print, confusing advertising.

It's all around you.

That is what miss Sling does. Maybe she feels better herself by calling others morally bankrupt, or even bottom-feeding dregs of society. Probably most people are laughing their ass off though.

Bottom line is that only time can tell what this new policy will mean. I would put my bet on: not much. Traffic bots will be exchanged for modeling bots and camping. Hell I could justify a few gardening bots in my plants store . The new policy would not keep bigger stores from putting up 40 camping pads. Stores that can afford 40k classifieds, can afford 40 camping pads.
If this is going to be the scenario, the same stores will stay in the top 10. Newcomers just cannot compete like they used to. Everyone can fire up 40 bots, not everybody can afford 40 camping spots. That is a good thing though, it will stop the growth of bot farms. And if I look at myself, it is quite possible to succeed without Places Search.

So?

You have a choice.
Join in with the pigs at the trough or don't.

People who game search are pigs at the trough. They care only for their own appetites. They smell and they shit all over the place.



"You have no idea what my ethics are, I'm just a realist,.."

Your ethics are writ large in the Forums. They suck big-time.
Your argument is that because "bankers, politic..." - then it's OK for anybody to act in the same way.

You know if you go back to your workshop....make some new items....rearrange the store....try some new ads....tweak some keywords....relabel some items.....pop for some inexpensive classifieds....run some promotions to your group.....drop some ads in forum....drop some new items on Xstreet....mingle with some shoppers in the store....improve your customer service......the list goes on.........

You'll find that bots or alt campers really don't have to matter and really don't have to effect you at all.

Telling a newcomer opening a new store that they won't make it or that they don't stand a chance because they'll never show in a Places search is irresponsible and inaccurate information. There are a number of ways to make it.

No my view is that I can understand why people do such things, that's a far cry from saying it's ok to do so because others do it or that I'll do anything to make a buck.

However you, you're upto your neck in hypocrisy. You continue to do business with Linden Lab despite their claims over the number of residents they have, which are ridiculously over inflated when taken as 14 million or whatever it currently is and then throw your toys out of the pram about people artificially inflating traffic inworld and claminng you'd never do business with people who engage in such business practices.

I see people like Blizzard with WOW being accused of similar over inflation of users so I can understand why Linden Lab do it.

You were prepared to push the boundaries on references to alcohol in PG land, fortunately LL have seen sense on the issue, but you were quite prepared to push the boundaries for your own self interest.

Your ethics are wafer thin.

As I have said all along...I dont see much difference in using camping, models, bots, etc to inflate traffic numbers. i agree that if bots are banned, people will just revert to doing things the way they did before traffic bots....piles of campers, lucky chairs, etc to keep people on their parcels and get those numbers up.

it is interesting to me that folks seem to draw a line in the sand and put the various methods of artificially inflating traffic on one side or the other according to their own beliefs. however they dont seem to be able to see that that line in the sand is an arbitrary one, just as everyone else's is and where the methods fall is subjective. there really is no right or wrong. there is what works, what is or is not allowed by SL and then what people choose to do. it is what it is....and will continue to be with or without bots.

im dying to know what the next issue is that folks will rally around now that traffic bots have been dispatched... and if folks will give as much lip service to ridding the grid of other things that drain resources - like camping, models, lucky chairs, etc - as bots may or may not have done.

tune in next week for the answer.... smile

There really is no difference between campers and trafficbots. Camping is just making being a trafficbot something that anyone can do.

My line in the sand is "does this represent active users in the parcel or not".

Camping chairs: no.
Bots: no.
Lucky chairs: yes.

When I TP in on a pile of green dots, and say "Greetings, Program", I've gotten a response from campers maybe a pawful of times, from bots (of course) zero times, but people waiting for lucky chairs have to be standing there waiting for the letter to roll over, so they talk. You can engage them in discussion. They represent real people.

It's all about the people. Green dots should be people.

Well, I understand why people game traffic. I understand why people steal, kill, torture, etc.
Then I criticise the activity.
You seem to have a problem with me doing so.
You tell me to look around and see politicians, bankers, etc. How is this relevant?
We both seem to understand why they do it.
It's just that you seem to have a problem with me describing their activities as dishonest.

I don't have a lot of choice in choosing a 3D virtual world that allows content creation. I'm a realist. I can do business with LL but I don't in any way have to behave in an unethical fashion within SL simply because I disagree with some of the ways they operate.
I can understand why they act that way, but you may have noticed that I don't hesitate to call attention to the way they act.

I do have a lot of choice in choosing an in-world person with whom I would socialise or do business.


While "no reference to alcohol in PG" lived as a proposal, I had no hesitation in waving a huge red flag and shouting "Look. It's a pub"
That's not pushing the boundaries. That's coat-trailing. That's being provocative in order to call attention to the ridiculousness of the proposed change.

The provocation was not in my own direct self-interest. The pub bit of that PG land would have been modified out of existence without any regret if needs be. It didn't really matter.
My interest was in using it to highlight one of the idiocies in the proposed changes to SL.
I plead guilty to promoting the interests of people in general.


"Pushing the boundaries" is:
Running traffic bots right up to the time that LL outlaw them.
Running other search-gaming not (yet) outlawed by the TOS


You tell me to look at what dishonest politicians, banker and businesses are doing in RL. The implication is that doing so would make me cease to criticise people who game search in SL. I don't get the connection.

For some people here, the line in the sand is whatever is in the TOS.
They don't draw the line. The line has to be drawn for them by somebody else.


There are some here who will now stop running traffic bots. They will do so only because LL have changes the explicit rules.
That LL described traffic-botting as unfair is lost on them. It's irrelevant to them.
They will continue to use whatever scams are not explicitly outlawed by the TOS.

So, the dots are actually soylent green?

;0 klingons do not traffic/campbot. there is no honor in it. (it's a ferenghi thing. ;0)

It's not cannibalism if you're not human!

I am concerned that "bot" isn't defined.

I sometimes stay logged in even when I am doing nothing. And really the only reason to stay logged in rather than shut down Second Life is to gives a little boost to traffic (because when you are not established, even a little boost can jump on a lot of spaces.)

Is my avatar a bot because I leave my avatar logged in while I have SL minimized?

Because sometimes I am logged in, doing nothing and just helping my traffic a little, does that mean my avatar has to be tagged a bot? So now my avatar doesn't count at all, even when I am doing a lot of things and being active?

If what is allowed and what is not is purely up to the unguided discretion of a random Linden Lab employee, does that mean there is now a traffic lottery? If I happen to draw the attention of Strict Linden, my search ranking is killed- but if I happen to draw Lax Linden, I get to happily inflate traffic over my less fortunate competitors?

There is one piece of good news that favors me- that I will have a chance to appeal decisions and explain why my avatar should not be tagged a bot. Being a highly educated, native speaker of English, I have quite the competitive advantage over anyone who does not share my education advantages and over those who do not speak English natively. I have a far better chance of explaining my use as "good" than many.

And isn't that what a free market is all about, really? Arbitrarily picking winners and losers by a centralized governing body, and providing barriers to entry by new competitors and those with fewer social advantages.

The problem is that there are very few legitimate advertising opportunities that serve as an alternative to playing the Traffic lottery.

So what is my alternative? I could provide the greatest experience known to SL, and if no one knows it's there, no one will come. I have no chance to get heard among the more established places with their traffic.

Playing it out in my mind, assuming that leaving myself logged in while my computer is unattented means my avatar gets slapped "bot," what is my next step? Well, I could throw out Zyngo games and lucky chairs to attract traffic, and offer all the BIB freebies to newbies. It would probably do better than I am with one lone avatar logged in half a day.

But I never wanted to have a trashy casino or freebie graveyard. I'm not even trying to make money (I'd like to one day just break even and cover expenses). I wanted to have a fun club.

Why the heck can't we just throw away Traffic altogether, or at least make it an option that searchers can click out of in searches? Why must Traffic be preserved as divine? What is so holy about Traffic that it must be preserved at all costs?

Gaming Traffic with bots is a problem, sure. But the problem is not the bots, it is about how powerful the Traffic metric is. Reduce the power of the metric. Provide some alternatives. Stop worshipping traffic.

Why do you think that having a single idle avatar that's actually the owner of the shop is going to get you slapped as a "bot"?