Point to Point Teleporting

And what works now? How does someone entering the market overcome the big hurdles of the current system? Perhaps creativity, ingenuity, and investing wisely? Those certianly work now, and they'll work anywhere, RL or SL, regardless of the model. They are essential to "upgrade your status" as a business, no matter where you are or what you do.

The way I see the current system is you don't need much creativity to build a store, just a lot of money to invest in expensive telehub land to use for selling mediocre stuff.

I don't see how investing in a sim will give you any more exposure than using existing mechanisms (i.e. the Classifieds system). Oh wait, your setting up a straw man by making it foregone that islands will now be necessary for setting up stores, and that they will force you to stop shopping at your favourite designer (?). I'm not sure how P2P makes islands any easier to access than anywhere else on the grid, or why it would suddenly cut you off from your favourite designer.

OR small, struggling content creators can now be on an equal footing with the large, established, content creators since they will be just as visible as anyone else.

What's wrong with the new Classifieds feature introduced with 1.7? Open the list, type in a search for what you're looking for, click Teleport, and you're there. I think that this will *increase* the chances well above "about zero" for people in "the middle of the continent" (which I presume you really mean at the topological anti-nodes to the telehubs).

As long as we're using fiction as a source for our arguments, I'll say this: P2P worked well for Star Trek.

The masses can be educated as well — it just takes longer. And I certainly disagree that Linden Lab is keen on competing with low-end products like Habbo Hotel or IMVU, when they have the whole metaverse to offer.

I doubt it. They'll have all upped and left in a huff way before they can be turned round to your way of thinking

This is a textbook example of Slippery Slope

And I disagreed.

As I said, complaining about P2P teleporting is futile - it is already here.

Having the Lindens re-implement it directly into SL is merely a less-resource-intensive way of doing it.

Prokofy is banned from participation in this forum, for past appalling abuses of the right to "say it all". It would show respect for this LL decision if you refrained from linking or quoting this person, whose views are now officially unwelcome here. If indeed that is what this link is. He is not silenced in general. Anyone who wishes can find him in several fairly obvious locations. But he is silenced here. Respect that, please, Gwyneth.

Not only do you give him a voice here, with that link, you give it a stamp of approval and attempted authority and finality by your phrasing. Don't do this. Don't do it at all.

I'd be grateful if you deactivate your link, as I have done my copy.

Whew... 10 pages of posts and still going. After reading, skimming, and otherwise reviewing the many comments, it seems to be a thread of a consensus regarding Telehub versus P2P teleporting.

1. Have both Telehubs and P2P as means of teleporting around SL grid.

2. While not as popular, existing Telehub land / adjacent retail and commercial owners should get some sort of increased dwell/traffic. Afterall, for the most part, they pay extraordinary prices for those lands - and lest we forget, those sales also represent a good revenue stream to LL in new lands/continents.

3. Nominal fee for P2P teleporting. LL is always seeking new sources of revenue. And I assume P2P technology comes at some expense to LL. User fees are a good way to match some revenue to the new expense.

4. Private sims / islands should have controls. Either the option to retain a Telehub (which they paid dearly for), and/or P2P controls on landing coordinates.

ISSUE: If Telehubs are removed from private sims/islands, wlll the owners recieve some sort of reimbursement for the loss of a hub.... say a one time lump sum, plus a reduction in the monthly "maintenance" fee?

I understand telehub land and surrounding parcels value might be reduced. Not a good prospect for SL in general - even if it does not directly effect you, the reader.

Could a general decline in land values ensue, IF, as some suggest, the landed and wealthy abandon SL in a huff? LL depends greatly on Auction revenues and the reoccuring montly fees as revenue streams. If large numbers of sims and parcels come on the market at say, greatly reduced liquidation prices, the demand for new Linden land will quickly evaporate. If extreme and prolonged, it could have a negative impact on management's 2006 budget projections. Venture Capitalists and Boards don't like missed projections - particularly downturns caused my management's strategic and operating decisions. Extreme speculation? Who knows.

Just some thoughts...

As usual... my $0.02 USD worth.

Who said they needed to be? Unless you are implying that people who don't agree with The Vision (tm) are somehow ignorant and ill-informed, rather than, oh, simply not agreeing with it.

Bizarre posting, Elror. I see no consensus on the general worth of the proposal, but quite a bit of division. A majority in favour, but certainly no consensus. I see even less consensus on the detailed points you put forward. I really don't know where you got them from.

Generally I find summarizing posts quite helpful. But only if that is what they actually are.

Good try perhaps, but maybe you should reread the thread more carefully before reporting nonexistent consensus, don't you think ? The Lindens or newcomers might read your post, and decide to save reading time by believing it. Ouch.

One thing I have noticed in SL is that people are very keen to 'kink' the 'normal world' model every chance they get. Everyone wanted a beach house when they were a kid (or now) ? Whoooosh ! Waterfront property abounds, with all the charm of a florida old-age development .

People want to go places without the 'hassle' of having to move there manually? WHOOOSH! A system of telehubs appears, and later, even that minimal 'inconvenience' is replaced by PTP TP.

So what's the use of a world where scarcity dwindles and choice explodes? Ladies and Gentlemen, I state that the 'hassles' of movement create opportunities for growth and expansion that are threatened by Both telehubs and PTP TP.

With Telehubs, Land speculators quickly realized the advantage of building commercial venues very close to the hube, where maximum exposure would be acquired. Even when avatars simply want to get someplace else, developers built tall structures which would catch avatars until the building rezzed and they could see what they had to fly around. One hassle was replaced with another.

The Form of PTP TP we need is already here - Friend to Friend Teleporting!

I suggest that LL remove telehubs and leave PTPTP out of things. We, the residents, can spend our own time and energies creating a better solution that meets all our needs. LL needs to get out of the transportation business as much as possible.

And anyone who thinks that LL should 'compensate' them for the absurdly high value that they willingly paid at auction or otherwise for their land is on some kind of drugs. Nobody forced you to overpay for the land. Feel free to subdivide it and sell it off one at a time. Perhaps you could try to actually have some kind of attraction other than 'getting in my way' to offer people ?

Orginally posted by Ellie Edo: "I fully expect to be derided, but my opinion is my opinion."

Granted, very unscientific methodolgy. But, this is a forcus group, not a statistical analysis department. BTW, I generally agree with you positions and your posts.....

Bottom line, LL will implement what has already been decided. I doubt if Phil stays up late just waiting for our posts and words of wisdom. I wish my words and opinions had the power you fear they might have on the decision makers.

They are seeking consensus, and can do the math.

ahem.. as a newbie I love the ptp idea.. as a friend of several people with shops and land close to hubs, I understand their concern about potential "loss of value".. but it is the coolness of their shops and land which attract me way more than closeness to a hub

I'm glad that PTP TP is being developed. The biggest issue is of trying to fly to a spot that's closer to other hubs by a large amount, but I have to go a much larger distance. In many spots, I can bairly move until I get off the sim that has the telehub, or have to fly around absurdly tall buildings.

I have rairly gone to shops that are right at the telehub, as I can never move very much due to the lag.

I agree that this change will limit the need for satellite stores. None of my stores are actually in a telehub, but they are typically right outside of it. Sales at these satellite stores never came close to sales at my main location. These stores were more a form of advertisement.

Change is inevitable in this world and businesses will have to adjust accordingly. I will probably tier down because there is no longer a need for 32km of land. I only need about 1/4 of that space to have a nice store front.

As the saying goes...you have to roll with the changes or is that a song

Word.

P2P teleporting makes SL more broadly accessible for folks who dip there toe in the Metaverse only to run far from the client screaming with thier head spinning and hair on fire. More accessible means more residents, which is good for business.

While some people claim this is an "attack" on a certain kind of business owner, what it really is an upgrade that makes SL easy to use.

I view it in much the same way, albeit on a larger scale, as streaming audio "robbed" the people who were taking songs, chopping them into 10-second chunks, and uploading them into SL.

It's just this time, major "stakeholders" stand to lose out, so of course it's a big deal.

I sell lots of different items in SL and love doing it. But long ago I gave up trying to buy stalls at telehub markets. Ugly, ungainly and lost amidst 300 other little stalls.

Now I make STORES that have all my different things in them. Beverly Hills, Home Depoz, heck even my own Neon Mall.

I love letting my customers come directly to my shops. Ill work even harder now to be sure they are appealing and full of lots of goodies.

Our group bought nearly a whole sim (Paikea) just to have some peaceful streams running through a quiet valley with NO vendors around.

As to the current telehubs.....how about an info area...with pointable maps, and landmark givers....Use the aerials you have in maps now...to show say all the sims around the old hub...get an info card and a landmark when you click on something that looks interesting from the aerial view.

This would make for some terrific exploring..still offer the chance to meet and greet, and fulfill a nice need....showing off your stuff.

My two cents...

WOO HOOO P2P!

I already answered why I don't think SL will turn into a uniform field of gray boxes.

Next claim: All the content creators are going to leave? To me this thought is nutty. When I think of the highest quality creators in SL, it's not a batch of folks dependent on hubs. They use hubs as part of their business strategy, but dependent? Not at all.

How about the little guy? Well, I don't buy the class warfare argument either. For every "middle class" or up-and-coming content creator who are at the hubs, there are countless others who haven't been able to afford hub land and who have stores in non-hub locations. What about those "little guys", and making it easier for them to bring customers to their current locations? I agree that we still need more marketing channels/options in SL, including better search, but that isn't a reason to preserve hubs as they currently stand.


I do think Strife's idea is very interesting. I would make it a slightly wider radius than 300m -- maybe 500. My first worry was that it might cause an avatar-catching net to be created in a ring at the radius limit from the hub, but thinking further I don't think that would be practical for many to try this... because the ring is so large you'd have to buy and hold so much more land.

At first glance, this proposal would create some form of light zoning but have a big enough p2p zone that business owners do not have to waste money trying to jam in right on top of each other in the hub itself.

Although SL is an everchanging metaverse. I have to point out that many of us have built around hubs as high traffic locations. Chossing Home locations far from these hubs. A kinda mock zonning of sorts. Im not sure LL cant truly compinsate for the higher prices paid for this land. I notice a trend in the for and against in the forum posts. The For seem to be more the heavly invested players that own this land. While the against seem to be more the players not vested in these locations. I just feel that such a massive change this late in the game in an unfair one. Its easy for a player that has not spent there money to be a part of the hub owners to complain about there use. Its a very different thing to devalue by practice the land that many have invested in. We as players we dont make the rules we can only play by them. It is just getting harder to when the rules change so often.

Wow Gwyneth I guess if PROKOFY (of all people) said something then it MUST be true!
Never mind that this is a fallacy of "appeal to authority"... next thing you know, you'll be appealing to the authority of our good friend Catherine Cotton?
Gwyn, you're smarter than this. If there's anything I've ever learned in life is that people are afraid of the tiniest amount of change and always predict the direst possible outcomes.
Doomsayers are always overreacting. Always. Yourself included.
Whatever may change, human nature doesn't. And in this life as well as the first it is all of us together, through action and inaction who make the world what it is.
I've "lived" through three years of second life history, experienced ELEVEN major releases and countless other minor changes. Everyone said "DOOM!" and they were always wrong.
I am willing to bet whatever you want that the vast majority of people will continue to enjoy SL in much the same way after P2P kicks in. LL is not stupid, and they always place great emphasis in changing things only when it serves the good of the whole. As for a tiny minority of so-called investors, well, I'll quote Philip on this one and state that SL is still very much a consumer oriented product. SL is entertainment software. If you want to invest in something, talk to a bank. Any money put into a virtual business should always come out of your disposable income. If you don't have a disposable income, focus your energies on that other world called first life... and above all, don't buy the silly pep talks and marketing hype that SL is a "country" where you can $$make money fast$$

I think most people don't have shops at a telehub, & I hardly think anyone is dependant on being in a telehub except people who set up "telehub vendors"

This will make it easyer to browse shops in search, cos you'll just jump quickly from store to store.

It will, IMO, be more convinient for both merchants & customers, & all & all a great idea that has been wanted since ... ever. Merchants & content makers won't leave! Thei'll prosper! Because going to their shop to examine their merchanside will be much easyer now.

The only problem i see is land value for people who own telehub land.

But people, in the end, go to stores because of their content not their location. & this will just make going to your fav shops a lot easyer.

"First is to increase the traffic payments for a period of time after the change is made for landowners in the vicinity of the telehubs. Second is to convert the telehubs into public gathering spots." Robin Linden

Public gathering spots? I'ld like to see how that works out.
For the record, I have done my shopping through word of mouth and the FIND tab. Location to telehubs have had zilch influence on where I go to buy something I want. Telehub zones are the concern of land speculators - we lost teleportation at cost, for creating a new career. meh.
I'm with Eggy, except I'll grant that P2P movement will do nothing but make SL a better place. I've never liked the hubs and I hope LL does away with them once and for all - good riddance.

Off the path of the thread, but I was just in Home Depoz the other day and was very impressed! Awesome place you have there.

I return everyone now to the heated debate in progress ...

Can I get an AMEN?