Point to Point Teleporting

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Looks like that

And as usual the rumours of SLs imminent death might be unfounded. It is a bigger change to "the world" then most people recognize now, IMHO, though. Because it works. It is that simple.

If many are willing to pay a price for a specific product, service or resource, thats the "value" of it. If the price allows you to make a profit later (if you are buying for business purposes) is another question. But I guess it was the case often with telehub land.Telehubs focused/concentrated lag. Now it will just spread.

Thanks for the hint!

Sounds very promising!

... like a lot of LLs announcements. Lets hope the promises get fulfilled this time!

A wise newbie, imho.

OK I came from Active Worlds.

They had P2P teleporting from the getgo. In fact I'm still getting used to the hub system after being in SL over a year.

1. There was a system in place where you could set your your land in spot to be if you owned a world ie let say the equivalent here would be a sim.

I Seriously can't remember if you could set a point on your own land, but you COULD do so the same way you create LMs in here. You stand in the spot you want, and make a favorite or whatever it was called.

Then if someone said, hey I want to visit your house - you gave the the coords (LM) and it would land them directly to where you placed it. Most people would set it in their front garden, or at their front door.

So yes you still would get the feel of geography or whatever everyone is worried about. Its up to the individual. Personally, if I've worked hard to create a lovely home, club or build, I'm not going to have them land inside my upper bedroom closet.

They'll start out front and can see everything I've done from the outside in.

2. With all of that in mind, I sincerely hope that LL can bring back the ability to get landmarks from peoples profile picks and from the Find.

If P2P is indeed implemented, landmarks are going to be the new way to get around.

And if what I was told was true - the ability to get LMs as indicated above was axed because it was overloading storage, what with people having tons of LMs in their inventories - then I guess there better be some long and hard thinking about this new system.

3. I hope there will be a transition. I would love to see us have both telehubs and P2P. I'm not sure why this is not possible. But at any event I believe there should be a time when there is both (if its possible) during the phasing out of the hubs.

4. Public gathering areas where the hubs are not going to be any more. Seriously, I think LL should just put that land up for sale and whoever can buy it and do whatever with it. Our world, Our Imagination, remember?

Or keep it Linden land, toss a few trees and flowers around and put some pretty park benches and we can gather around and do whatever there. Nothing elaborate is needed.

5. Sim owners should have a choice on wether to keep their hubs as they are, being that they paid a helluva lot to have a hub and as someone has mentioned, many are built around hub placement. Or at the very least have a way of setting a landing point, which is the same thing, so leave it alone.

6. People who bought or rented around hubs. I can't comment on this one at all.

But please bring back the ability to get landmarks from profile picks and find. Makes no sense to have that still killed and implement P2P.

If I think of anything else it will end up on my blawg.

I disagree with Gwyneth. I'm not an alarmist and do not believe this will induce a drastic change in the world. It will simply make it more convenient to move around without getting stuck in sim borders.
In the pre-telehub world, people clustered into communities. I remember Shipley was a fun place to be, and so was Da Boom. A lot of friendly people lived there, which attracted more people. Those people are still friends today... when was the last time you made a friend at a telehub?
The telehubs were originally created in a time where the L$ had no value and there was no GOM. Their originally stated goal was to promote more of this community-building. They are not doing anything to promote community, in fact, people looking to set up a friendly community might well choose a location as far away from a hub as humanly possible, so as not to be disturbed by laggy commercial builds.
Telehubs did not achieve another stated goal, that was to promote exploration. IMHO it will promote *more* exploration to have P2P teleport. I am far more likely to be intrigued by that little cluster of dots on the map if I can get there *instantaneously* to check it out!
Furthermore, with the removal of enforced telehub travel, content producers will be more likely to compete based on the quality of their content rather than leveraging their particular location. It is tacitly accepted as truth that telehub malls often carry rather mediocre content.
People often complain that in SL the rich always get richer and that a certain inner core will do anything to prevent newbies from rising through the ranks. With P2P teleport people can visit any store on an impulse and instantly buy things. You can arrive here one day and put up your things for sale. If you are good, people can instantly spread the word about it and instantly visit your store. This is very democratizing, which will help increase user retention.

I doubt they'll bother. My fear is that fewer and fewer people will ever do a sim crossing. In the end the very idea of a sim having a neighboring sim will seem unnecessary.

I can see the feature proposal now, a year down the line:

Prop 5302: Dynamic plot repositioning. Give each plot owner the option to relocate his land into a separate virtual space, either alone or adjacent to his friends so that they can build, and dynamically reorganize, their own neighborhood at will.

Horrific. Social segmentation, breakdown of community. Every man his own zoner. Mind you, griefers would quickly find themselves floating alone in the void. As would those with few social skills. Desirable communities would demand premium payments to live alongside. Be nasty to a neighbor - he's gone. Be nasty to several - you're alone, and maybe the word goes round and no-one will accept you. Spite, victimization and blackmail would flourish in new forms.

Effective expulsion of an undesirable would be facilitated by a "relocate selected" facility, so everyone else could go, leaving him alone.

On the other hand, come to think of it...................

Fair comment. Whatever it will be, the word "world" will get less applicable. Like the "World Wide Web" cannot be called the "Web Wide World."

Personally, I just would like to have P2P teleporting to go directly to the few places I go usually, like to a place I visit more often, a friend's home. All in all, very specific locations. So this could be done through allowing P2P only if you have a landmark or the posibility of set a limited direct teleportation points (5, 10, 15, whatever), for the rest of the places just use the Telehub.

On a side note, do you really think that removing the telehubs will make the quality content creaters to go away from SL? I hardly think so. Some of the quality creators have their sims already, so they won't be affected. Others there are already known, they won't be much affected either.
When I search for some product sometimes I found myself having to fly 500 or 600 or even more meters to reach the shop, that never stopped me to go there.
Another example: some months ago a friend put a store, he started to sell a lot and not because of random people crashing on his store from a telehub (I think his shop is around 300m from the telehub), just because he was good and word passed from people to people.

If they remove telehubs the only people that would be directly affect are those landowners with land in the telehub sim which will have they land, but not the content creators.

Just my two cents.

A year down the line? This has, in fact, already been suggested, on the Feature Suggestion forums a few weeks ago, I think. I don't know if it's gotten a proposal yet, though.

Strongly, very strongly, in favour

I agree with Eggy here, If I wanna visit somewhere that looks interesting or fun, or I just wanna have a wander, I rarely wander far from telehubs if I am lagged out, however, if I can insta-tp there then I am more likely to consider doing so.

Why battle thru sims of lag and getting bounced by scripts if you can just get there with one click?

STAMPED BY ME!

Coming late to the conversation and having read through the suggestions here I can only express how glad I am that P2P is finally coming about.

However, I still don't agree that P2P should be entirely embraced and become the only way for anyone to TP to anywhere - there are some elements of SL that add to the general in-world atmosphere and the telehubs are one of them.

I'd like to propose a slightly different suggestion to most I've seen here - I'd like to see both both solutions implemented - Telehubs and P2P.

The P2P solution should, IMHO, be set out so that if you TP to a destination (whether through map-clicking or landmark), you are by default dropped off at the nearest telehub UNLESS the parcel you are TPing to has a 'TP Landing point' set - the same way you set Home now. Only the land owner, or member of the officers of the owning group can set/move/remove this. Additionally, if you don't have security access to the land (on the ban list, or not part of the right group) you should also be dropped at the nearest telehub.

If you TP by map-clicking I'd suggest that you should always be dropped at the nearest telehub, with the destination highlighted by the pillar of red. My reasoning behind this suggestion is that you are going to be using this kind of TP for exploration mainly - if you know where you're going you would probably already have an LM for the destination. Besides, it very neatly steps around the problem with TPing onto someone's neighbour's land because they have a TP Dropoff point set - but there person you're going to see doesn't want people TPing ont their land so they leave it turned off.

Additionally (and this is the significant difference) - this feature should only be open to Premium members. LL are looking for ways to encourage the conversion from Basic accounts to Premium - this would be another attractive feature.

This would leave the Telehub infrastructure in place - the Telehubs would remain commerce hotspots to an extent, but would also carry a slight reduction easing the pain of such a dramatic change to telehub area economy.

I feel that this solution is the one that caters for the widest range of tastes - and may actually provide LL with an added advantage too.

Oh! Two other things:
1: Neighbours that want to share a TP Dropoff for their neighbourhood would only need to split off a small parcel of land and set the TP Dropoff point there - then leave off the TP Dropoff on their own parcels.

2: LL - Please, please, please, please, please don't forget the associated LSL additions that would make this an integrated and useful tool:

llSetTPDropoff() - to set the TP Dropoff location to the current position of the container prim - should spark a nice market in 'TP Receiver objects'
llSetTP(integer onoff) - Turn TP Dropoff on or off without changing the location.

/me gets down of soapbox... carries it away...

Edit: Just wanted to add that the main reason I don't agree with the free-for-all of being able to TP wherever you want is a question of choice. Everyone has a right to wander around and look at everything in SL - but they also have a right to not have people appearing in their lab during product development, bedroom at a private moment, or living room during a gossip-fest

Look on it as having your phone ex-directory in an attempt to stop people cold-calling

What is this community thing you speak of? You mean being forced to live right next to people with diametrically opposite views of the world is somehow a good thing?
Of course people should be able to congregate into their miniature communities. That's how the real world works.
Besides, I've been lobbying for what you now call "dynamic plot repositioning" for about a year now, and there's nothing you can do with that that you cannot currently do by buying an island. I'm sure you've noticed how popular they are, right?
Enabling better mobility of parcels and their associated content would let people sort the world into planned communities, which would greatly enhance the look and feel of SL.
I never defended, however, one's ability to kick out a neighbor.
And the very idea of a sim never having a neighbor unless you explicitly wanted one was one of the core ideas behind OSMP

I fully agree with Eggy on that, I for one never stay long enough near the telehubs to have the textures rez because when I bothered to do so I only saw ugly half finished boxes. When I want to see a nice place I tp to the nearest telehub and start flying when even -I- am still grey lol

so in a word ... I'm behind Eggy (wtahc your back )

What if traffic increases if you are adjacent to other high traffic pieces of land? This could still encourage commercial areas.

Reluctantly, I think p2p tping for premium subscribers only is a good thing. Basic subscribers lose nothing they have now if telehubs remain. How can they complain? And more subscribers means more LL income and faster game deveopement.

I think p2p is a bad idea.

When the distance between every two points is zero, there will be no difference between one place and another place. Consequently, there will be no sense of place at all. P2p will destroy the feeling that we live in a big, complicated world.

If you must implement this bad idea, then at least let the time it takes to go from one place to the next be proportional to the distance travelled.

Right. So you want them to introduce an artificial delay to P2P teleporting? That makes a lot of sense.

And we don't live in a big complicated world. We live in a haphazard and disjointed pile of shit that's incredibly annoying to travel through, designed by the greedy taking advantage of what we all must do to get around.

I'm VERY much looking forward to not having to fuck around trying to get out of invisible skyscrapers that didnt rez yet and then going offworld while crossing sim borders just to get to the ONE PLACE I'm interested in looking at just because it's forced upon me by some bullshit notion that it fosters some kind of sense of community. Ugly rental booth malls filled with spinning 'rent me' signs do not a community make!

And now all land should be worth the same as any other piece of land in SL. No artificial markup when you want to buy because it's near a telehub. No artificial markdown when you want to sell because it's too far from a telehub. Land is land is land (well, thats not really true because people will always find a reason why their land is worth more than someone elses land, so we'll probably just move from one artificial reason to another).

And to those spelling doom and gloom and the collapse of the economy and a stampede for the exit by the masses I say.... yay! I rilly hope you're right! Let's make SL about TALENT and GOOD CONTENT and a REAL community spirit that isn't based around an economy that seemingly survives by forcing people to look at stuff they don't want to in places they don't want to be! Again.

But it's obvious people won't like the idea. God forbid they might actually have to work at or innovate to continue selling their infinitely copiable stuff rather than relying on it just rezzing in front of people's eyes. But then every business in SL should have the same chance now, regardless of location!

Or you could all just leave because it's all so unfair

Hi there. Topology != Topography. LL never really got that and apparently neither do you.
The logical structure of a space should not be tied to the lay of the land.
The whole history of mankind can be summed up in this duality: as better ways of transportation evolved, mankind freed itself from the shackles of location. There has always been a 1:1 mapping between economic/scientific growth and better modes of transportation/communication.
With the advent of the Internet, location became more or less irrelevant, to the point that multinational corporations are changing their strategy. Most used to follow an "export" business model, leveraging core skills and resources particular to their place of birth and projecting themselves internationally. Their business relied on the difficulty of this international projection - there was a high barrier to entry for any random person to project whatever they could do to an international level. But now with the internet anyone can set up a website and sell to the world. Much like P2P teleports, this collapses the topological structure of the world, that once was heavily tied to its topography... but this is a good thing. It's progress.
Let us then progress to new forms of organization and explore the new possibilities. History has shown time and again that decoupling topology from topography is a good thing. The only people who have anything to lose are those who think they have the right to become complacent, set in their ways, and refuse to innovate and adapt to new conditions. But it's ok, we don't want that sort of regressive thinking, or else we would be stuck with LOOMS or ANIMAL SKINS

Sorry, reposting as Neil.

When the distance between every two points is zero, everything will still be different, the world didnt become suddenly diverse and interesting with telehubs. P2P reinforces that we live in a big complicated world. When a friend TP's you to a neat place now does it feel the same as the place you left?

The world map still exists and what is better is now you can double click at random anywhere and map and POOF! you are there, see what looks like a neat bunch of buildings on the map, double click and you are there, no double click and then fly through 2 sims of stuff that wont rez by the time you are past it anyways.

Personally I am really looking forward to exploring the world again!

Fantastic Post, Gwyneth. I couldn't have said it better.

I do think that this is the virtual equivelent of a nuclear bomb being dropped on our world. It will fundimentally change how life works on the mainland, many of the effects only to be seen in time - not immediately.

I'm a little saddened, really. But probably no different from the sadness many Beta and Oldbie members felt at the changes that took their tiny close-knit world, and turned it upside down into Chaos. I find it interesting (but not surprising) that many of these folks are extremely supportive of this latest change.

Considering we've effectively had P2P teleporting, between offering ports to friends, ROAM, and Hyperporter...


No, not really.

Just some thoughts.

First, I'm *really really really* glad to see this coming back. I hated when it was taken away. Back then my shop and gallery had regular visitors daily. When the hubs came and we were forced to use them, I hated for my visitors to have to fly through 4 sims to get to me. But I didn't fuss (too much.. hehe), I went with the flow. Hoping that one day we would get P2P back in some form.

I know many are looking for compromise between P2P and Hubs. Personally, I think the easy way to do this is make P2P only available if you have a landmark to the location. This would mean that the first time you went to a place, you would have to fly from a hub. If you really liked the location, make a landmark and the next time you can P2P in. And the landmark you receive should be set by what the land owner has designated as the landing spot.

I think this would keep hubs and the map still valuable, while at the same time allow for P2P to places people want to go on a regular basis.