Point to Point Teleporting

Pretty much agree with Ellie Edo!


But here's some proposed quirky limitations to keep it interesting. Basically, I'm suggesting P2P teleport plus Many Hubs:

Can't teleport less than 1000m (horizontally).

Accuracy limited to a radius of 60m... unless it's very near a landowner-designated arrival point. (So you can still tp to un-hubbed land.)

Can't teleport again for 5 minutes... (Or maybe if you do, the accuracy varies wildly, and you get Ruthed.)

I've got some really great neighbors, it would be interesting if we could designate arrival-point for our whole neighborhood, to modulate the traffic flow and create an experience for our visitors. I guess the "nearest landowner arrival point" idea would take care of that, if we were cooperating.

In my opinion it would be unfair to not consider this option just for the convenience of those that have land near telehub. I personally dislike having deal with telehubs and flying into invisible buildings and this option would be so much easier. Land near telehubs would be no less valuable than any other land in this situation. It could also be argued is why should businesses etc near telehubs have an unfair advantage.Just things to consider.
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I guess the rollout of my PTP Teleportation system and directory is dead now.

The effect on business, or land values, near telehubs is the least interesting effect.

My first thought is the change on server load and bandwidth. No more bumping into invisible buildings en route to somewhere, no more downloading thousands of shapes and textures we never see anyway as we fly over, and no more filling the server cache (and local cache) with those same shapes and textures. This is great!

Second thought: think of all the 'can someone tp me please' spam we won't have to listen to any more!

Third: I noticed some concerns of privacy. Some people are worried about folks suddenly popping into their living room in the middle of a private conversation (that includes fully clothed conversations, not just the nude ones, you dirty folks). Well...

I'd like to see it done like 'a telehub for every parcel'. On each parcel, set a particular location to be the place where people appear when they teleport to your land. Most stores and clubs would put it right at the front door... or maybe just inside. With a predictable landing spot, you could design your space so that people walk past notices, or advertising, as they enter.

As for what we're losing... maybe I just don't know enough about how others play the game, but I don't see any loss at all. By which I mean I never see anything, or anyone, at a telehub anyway. I zip up into the sky and fly away before anything actually gets drawn. Sometimes a few vague gray shapes, or a fully rendered Linden in a sea of grey if one happens to be there (somehow the Lindens seem to get priority-rendered).

Is it a complete perversion of the orignial idea of travel, as Ellie just posted before me? No doubt it is. But that idea had failed already as far as I can tell... people can't stop and look at things as they pass if those things stay invisible anyway.

Heh, quit reading my mind, Lauk!

Hmm, won't let me attach or link to images, sooo... I'm thinking something like this

One to let parcel owners entirely block p2p teleportation. One to clamp it to a specific entry point.

Alternately, the X and Y number dials might work better as a "set spot to HERE" type button.
Edit > Or, Do'h, the "set landing point" at the very bottom of the about land window, which already exists - just use that. Seems my brain has already started shutting down for the night.

I'm in favor of free teleporting to anywhere you have access.

* I would look dimly upon charges for teleporting.

* There's no real reason you can't offer the USER the option of teleporting direct or going to a hub, is there? I'm envisioning nothing more complex than having two buttons instead of one: "Teleport Hub" and "Teleport Directly". (I know some people do prefer using the hubs.)

* Alternately, I wouldn't mind a parcel setting for "Teleports to this parcel go to nearest hub", as long as it is off by default. (The default is more likely to become the standard for the grid as a whole, if for no other reason than the fact that changing the setting takes at least a token effort. As I obviously prefer p2p to the current system, I think that should be the standard, and therefore, easier.)

I'm not sure what value this option would have, though, as the people most likely to want to force people to use telehubs are also the people most likely to be near the telehubs and the least likely to be the place the user is actually intending to go.

(Of course, the obvious workaround for a teleport blocked parcel is to go to the nearest parcel that does allow it, and teleport THERE instead.)


Some notes

* I largely consider telehub malls to be nuisances and blights, and I avoid them like the plague. I move away fast enough that their only possible effect is to get in my way as I leave, and that doesn't really make me conducive to buying from their vendors.

* The map is already pretty much useless for me (due to flooding out my internet connection), so that's not a very strong argument in my book.

* Nor is the value of the time flying through the landscape/contiguousness of the landscape. If I want to spend time travelling across the grid, then that's exactly what I'll do on my own initiative ... I don't need LL or anyone else deciding that for me. And I have ... just last week I took two trips: one by road across the entire southern continent, and the other by airship from Acontia to Blumfeld and from there by Tigershark to points south. I don't do that when I want to go to a particular store.

The landscape is already fragmented due to the telehubs. This is not only just fine by me, it's also an inevitable side effect of grid growth, and in particular, if SL ever gets open source sims in the hands of private individuals, it will become the ultimate state of the grid.

There should definitly be an About Land option to not allow people to teleport into your land.

I don't get why people who have Telehub land need reimbursement, the Land market itself is an everchanging one, nothing is permanent, there is nothing to keep the mall next door to you being changed, and there is nothing to keep that forest you live next to from being torn down. Land values and land market changes daily in SL, this should be expected. So why should Telehub owners get any special treatment than other residents have gotten? Telehub land already makes the most money in traffic, why do you need MORE? Isn't that creating even more inflation in the economy by handing out more money? If I live next to a void sim, and LL decides to change it into a living sim, should I get compensation from lag that it will cause? LL has changed telehubs and inserted new ones in the past, did anyone get compensation there?

I'm all for keeping the areas popular with meeting areas, but giving people money just because they're used to getting high ammounts is stupid.

This is just silly.

What do most of us do now? We land at a hub, jump up to our maximum altitude, and then jet to where we really want to be. I designed my Power of Flight pack to be useful for just that purpose: it has a button to jump up to 300 meters, and another one to drop back to ground level.

I realize that some people will lose business because of this. This just means you will need to find alternate ways to advertise your product.

Think about it: when the automobile was invented, I'm sure that the people who made wagons, saddles, and buggy whips cried foul.

When the television was invented, the movie industry screamed that they would go out of business.

But people still ride horses. People still go to the movies. Yes, these industries have changed and had to adapt to the changing world, but they survived.

You'll survive, too. I can think of at least two ways to offset your investment in expensive telehub land, but if I post it here, everybody will do it.

Be creative. All is not lost.

Another suggestion, add p2p as landowner check box right below "Show in Find" at a weekly cost of, say, $20L. This turns on p2p to ONLY the designated landing area on the parcel and creates another sink. The default position should be off and it should be an "opt-in" choice rather than an "opt-out" choice.

I agree, a migratory road map should be persued and carefully analyzed. It should have started with increased teleporting for land owners and then perhaps premium accounts.

Going whole hog like this is very jarring.

Truly, it's a bit nerve wracking that LL feels the need to make such radical changes. Is the business failing and this is causing them to do 180s in hopes of changing things around?

Yes, I think it will be more like clicking on a link and going to a 3-d website.

This may sound weird, but I like teleporting the way it is now

I like the telehubs and the meet I occasion meet (aka land on) there. I admit sometimes yes, I do just hit the UP button and zoom up, but sometimes I don't and I like that there are stores are the telehubs.

I think P2P takes SL alittle to close to the "SL is a Game" line. I know we have teleporting now but the having telehubs atleast allowed for some control of the teleporting and allowed exploration. I just feel P2P is a step in the wrong direction.


Brendan

Or, you know, it might be because people asked for it. A lot. (Proposal #89 has 1030 votes.)

And they listened. (Gasp!)

But that's not as sinister sounding, so sure, go with your theory.

We switched from pay-p2p to Telehubds directly and right away.

Direct teleporting in my opinion will make more of an impact on what is at a location, not where it is. If theres an interesting build, I can go right to it, if it's a house, I won't go near it if I don't have a reason to. It's better for privacy and for creativity.

It will help clubs and businesses, because people can get there easily and quickly with little hassle.

And as for distorting our view of the world... currently I view SL as a giant box, or rather, a bunch of boxes, each box is a sim, if I step outside a box, on the other side in the next sim may be a laggy box, or it may be no box. And you can't even travel with most vehicles across a sim line, which ruins quite a bit of world vision and how big it is. SL is limited in the feeling of expanditude not because of telehubs or teleportation, but because of the whole sim model.

The only good thing I've found with telehubs is to use them as starter points for exploring, and honestly I haven't done that in months because of how horribly unreliable it is to go from one sim to another with lag and security scripts and all sorts. And if I did ever to explore again, I could use the same spot where the telehubs had been, but are now replaced by gathering areas.

This is too logical and obviously has no place on SL forums.

Surely you don't mean me? I don't give a damn about telehub land losing value. Luck of the draw. I'm concerned with SL degenerating into people tp-ing between the interiors of closed boxes, with the outside space withering, external commercial architecture becoming "grey box" because no-one will see it. SL will become a slightly better quality "Habbo Hotel". Yuk.

Instead of a Metaverse with a highly evolved network of interlinked and extended geographic worlds, we'll end up with closed boxes between whose interiors we jump. Just websites, each displaying a 3-d room. Why bother with an outside at all, if we aren't compelled by necessity to travel through it ? Who'll see it but a few freako's ?

I agree that travelling the world is not what it could be, with things rezzing too slowly. But maybe two years from now this problem will be gone, and the world will be fully there the moment we arrive. Wouldn't it be terrible if this comes too late, and there is no longer any external world worth traversing ? Who will have bothered to build it ?

The voting tool, albeit not perfect, lets LL see what the masses want. The masses want p2p, so they're going to give us p2p. They're going to compensate with higher dwell for telehub areas for a while, but that's a temporary solution.

I'd like to see what sort of community areas could be created at the telehubs that would help compensate for the change in land value, I think that's a good thing to focus on. Perhaps something like a spot with various ATM's, an Infonet terminal... I'm drawing blanks, sure there are better ideas out there, but definitely would like to see some ways to convert the existing telehubs into valuable areas.

What it basically comes down to is, if they set it up as entirely free then I'd be surprised to see people using telehubs at all... unless something really useful and/or compelling were put there.

to address various points:

1. I am in favor of p2p of some kind. I do not mind pay-for-p2p or p2p only to landmarks... any step is a step in the right direction in terms of removing the huge waste time that it takes to travel from one point to another.

I agree that landowners should be provided some sort of access tool to control p2p inbounds, or set a default landing spot.

2. I do not think it will kill the map or the sense of a world, especially with the 2.0 renderer changing how far we can see. Expanding the visual horizon will have more impact on the map than hub vs no hub. When people want to explore, they will still explore.

3. To be frank, I do not see the need to compensate land owners. LL has always said that it's possible that p2p could come back, and every hub owner bought with that risk in mind. If you are tough enough to remove event support and ratings stipends, you should be tough enough not to pander to a land owner class that is naturally fighting and lobbying to preserve their investment.

4. I am curious to know what the plan is for social gathering spots. Will it actually work, or do social gathering spots emerge because that is where the green dots are?

5. I also don't think hubs ever worked for zoning purposes. If you want to do zoning, do it right, and provide land owners with better tools to enforce zoning on their sims.

The thing is, the external world will always be there, because everyone has to have a land of their own, and this land is all interconnected, so it will all be there, like a giant sheet thingy that I forget the name of.

I think it would be awsome if we could travel SL, ride trains and see the landscape. But honestly, the technology really sucks for that, trains fall in the ground, you lag when you enter a new sim as your client chokes down thousands of prims, sim lag always comes into play. So currently, direct teleportation is alot more convient than telehubs or trains.

I imagine if the system ever becomes better, we would switch back to some model that makes traveling actualy fun, rather than a rather annoying journy.

I also imagine if you really wanted to, you could teleport to the former Telehub land and walk/fly to your location too.

This won't happen, for the same reason why people prefer green grass as their ground texture versus rock or mud

People like a sense of space, they like trees and the ability to stroll around a place like boardman, they like seeing waterfalls and magnificant bridges, they like flying around an awe-inspiring maxx monde tower, they like watching the sunset

and when vehicles actually work... we'll be able to drive and fly around and it will be fun! imagine that!

Better rendering and thus longer draw distances will create a sense of a world, not the fact that something requires me to waste my time using a jetpack to hurl myself to 300m then zoom 4 sims over.

I did not read all the posts, but I agree with Travis Lambert...

I think P2P should be made possible as an option someone could get as a payed service.
If I want P2P to my land I will select it and be charged a fee by LL (like find places listings)

Please do not openly allow P2P this will make a very big impact on value of land.

Man I can't wait... I already fly the Dominus Shadow all around the grid, falling through the cracks on every sim I cross.

This is a good change. It's just too bad it sets a bad precedent with the compensation package.

If people who invested in telehub land get compensated for a change to the grid, then:

- scripters should be compensated for when the LSL API is changed (i.e. deprecated functions, changes to physics constants, etc)
- builders should be compensated when geometry is destroyed (asset failures, prim drift, rotation bugs, etc)
- clothing designers should be compensated for changes to the avatar UV map
- and so on

This sets a very bad precedent.

Me too. Telehubs on a planned conversion to "social gathering spots" ? It's laughable, isnt it , lets be honest. But it doesn't bother me either way. I don't care about telehubs as such, or even their commercial clustering. I cetainly see no need to compensate anyone when the technology moves on.

But I do fear degradation of the outside space due to it not being traversed. Hardly anyone ever arriving at the outside of a building, so it doesn't matter what it's outside looks like. Why waste prims on it, or effort ? And surely doors would just be stupid. Encourage your customers to escape even before they are ready. No windows, no doors, no outside for any store. Only common sense to hold em next to the merchandise as long as possible, without distraction by even glimpses of other's builds or stores.

The mainland will become a grey field of stacked featureless, windowless boxes. Jammed right up to touch eachother. Every prim spent on great interiors, not one on the outside.

Oh yes, and I fear that now a huge club may be able to function efficiently ANYWHERE. Either LL will have to introduce its own zoning, or that will be the death of residential landholdings on the mainland. We will all have to flee to Hiro, or Alliez, or Anshe or (I feel I should name them all, but can't remember) oh yes, Nolan etc etc..........

As I said. A disastrous error unless severely limited and controlled. Why Oh why can't more of you see where it will end? I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am.

You bring up some very good points, as always.
Change is inevitable. The stipends and event support were taken more harshly, and I was kinda surprised when I saw they were going to temporarily increase dwell near telehubs. Even more surprised about the community area idea, but I think it's got promise, and is a nice idea. Hopefully they'll try to introduce all future ground-shaking changes in that style going forward; not pulling the rug right out from underneath people who are happy things the way they are for whatever reason.