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Well, I've met a few people who I got to know as females but later found out they weren't really females. Doesn't make a difference to me TBH hehe. SecondLife is another world, sure the feelings and friendships and all that are real but what you look like is another story. I still care about these people just as much and if they were female IRL it wouldnt change things one bit. It's WHO you are that counts, not WHAT you are. And in SL, we really get to see WHO everyone is... even the griefers

Well Well Well its time for a good forum post.
i would just like to say it is fun playing the other sex in game theres more to do and buy.
the weird part of it is being able to turn guy's on like Blue Burke i know he loves me so much but this is not someing i can do i dont feel it is right. So Blue baby you will have to wait till i go back to being a man... Kisses

The beauty of life in SL is, to me, that we all have a choice here to express ourselves in ways we cannot easily in real life. We have a chance to live a 'Second Life', that's the name of the game, yes ?

Our personalities here remain the same, or even may grow with the new experiences we encounter, but our real life outward appearance is largely irrelevant in my own opinion - there are no rules to say we must rigidly adhere to it and I'm pretty sure the majority of us do not, to some degree or another. In all cases, it's not deceit, it's liberating self expression made possible by a virtual world. I'm very interested in exploring what people choose to express when given a free reign, and it's the freedom and creativity that gives SL its 'spice' !

Old people can play young people, and vice versa, humans can be dragons, unicorns, or any other species for that matter, males can be female, females can be males. It's self exploration, comfortable self expression or just fantasy, depending on what level you take it to.

Yes, there is a social aspect, but it is who we are that matters - it is really our personalities that meet here and define our nature. I have no particular interest in meeting people back in the real world, so the only thing that matters is who people are here, i.e. the avatar that stands before me and who is communicating with me verbally and visually. I love to meet people from around the world, different cultures and different attitudes.

We are all a blend of male/female in my opinion, in who we are psychologically. It is not clear cut but differs in proportion, and our physical real life form is simply a manifestation that we are born with. Here, in SL, we are free to choose a different physical form, or plural of same, that may suit our thoughts and feeling more accurately, having all grown into ourselves enough to make intelligent choices about how we express ourselves. Whether it is a learning experience, just having fun, or feeling more 'true', I don't see anything wrong with it. I do think people can get hung up on gender more than anything else, the fact that this topic recurs so frequently is evidence of that.

I simply accept the appearance of any SL avatar as a self expression of that person at that particular time, only one facet of them perhaps, but still a representation of their inner self, and that includes gender. I myself have no hang ups about interacting with them in any way accordingly, where it suits my own feelings to do so. Rationalise it as role play if you will...

This is all of course, just my opinion on the issue, there are as many reasons for being here as there are people in SL, and people's expectations will vary accordingly.

Tolerance. Free Will. Accept people for who they choose to be

That's it exactly... The Kurt Vonnegut quote covers it - we are who we pretend to be, so watch out what you pretend to be...

In SL, People are that as which they Present Themselves.

I've long considered myself "transgender," though I use that term in probably the loosest sense. There was a time when I was considering gender reassignment, but I've come to terms with my situation far better since then. I know longer consider myself a woman in the body of a man. Just a man who *really* wishes he'd been born a woman.

That being said, I only play female online. I don't know *how* to play male. I tried it once, and no one believed me. And *that* should say something about online gender perceptions, more than anything about me.

But in recent times, especially since SL, I don't think about this issue as much. I make sure I'm open about my RL sex, for those people who think it matters (that's why it's in my 1st Life profile). But honestly, I don't think it matters. We are whoever we wish to be online... and genderbenders are not some fringe group... we're *everywhere*. And some of us are open and honest, others keep it to themselves. Sometimes you can tell (really easily) and sometimes you can't.

I've learned a lot about being a woman by being online... especially in the beginning, I learned a great deal about my own behavior as a male, and how it can be perceived from the other side. It's been very enlightening.

But really, the internet, and the online community, is a wonderful place, in large part *because* we can be whatever we want. As an old friend once said to me, "I don't care if you're a hamster IRL."

You are to me what you show to me.

--Carolyn
(Gender-blended Auntie)

I am a female here and am female IRL, but in past game playing days I have played a male.

When I played EQ my main was a female wood elf and yes I got hit on alot, but I inherited a male dwarf who at first I tried to get a gender change for, then I realized what fun it would be to play him.

I got the usual weird looks and comments when I would do a healing and respond to their thank you with a "you're welcome hon" a few double takes when clothes dye came out and I dyed his clothing flamboyant colors.

But I also had alot of fun playing the completely outrageous and overly "male" dwarf. Yes I must admit I swaggered, adjusted and flirted big time... with people who knew I was really female. Altho with those that didn't know I tried to stay "in character".

In all other RPG's I've played Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies, DAOC I have always been female, since I found the other side of being the opposite gender quite taxing.
I think it's funny that I found it so, but perhaps my "mind set " is just not geared to being male.

I do have several friends in many games that are the opposite gender of their in game character and respect the fact that they were comfortable enough with me to know that I would not judge them when they "told their secret" and I find it sad that there are those that do. There is always a "real person" behind the avatar and that's whom I cherish.

In other RPG's there is a standard and expected role, gameplay I guess, you are a healer you heal, you are a fighter you fight etc, but here you can be whomever and whatever you wish to be.

I recently in fact revealed that Ashlynne was originally an alt I had created to explore an alternate lifestyle, it was heartwrenching for me to fear "exposure" and yet has now become the most freeing experience when I finally revealed "my secret". Perhaps SL folks are more forgiving, but I only had a few negative responses.

Ash

A year ago I met a woman ingame. We didn't really start to get to know each other until she had changed her av to a pink dragon. We all know who that adorable draggie is. Anyway, I found out she was a man rl and that didn't phase me a bit. She was fun and funny and I enjoyed hanging around her.

Jump to 8 months ago.

We became good friends and an opportunity came up for us to become roomates. We moved in together and over the months, feelings deepened and love grew from that. Just one small glitch in all this. I have issues. Serious issues with my rl bf being a girl with a bf in sl.

Let me state that from here on out I will refer to my partner as "she" for the remainder of this post.

Rationally I know that she is not wanting to be with men rl and that she loves me to death rl. But no matter how many times she's tried to explain it in a way that I could understand, I don't. Plain and simple.

She is warm,fun, playful, flirtatious. I love all these things about her. I don't have any problem with her being this way, it's a part of who she is. However...*deep breath*...I DO have difficulty wrapping my brain around the fact that she is partnered to a man ingame.

All that said, I respect her feelings and even if I don't understand the motivations of some of her needs and desires ingame, I do understand her need to express herself in a way comfortable for her. We respect each other above all else and put each other first in our day to day lives. Our relationship ingame may not make sense to a lot of people but in the end it's the two of us, not anyone else, living our lives. If we can make it work then nothing anyone else says matters.

Love is where it all breaks down.

In nearly two years of being female in SL, I've gone from "playing" female online but really being a guy, to being female online and playing a guy in RL. I'm not sure when the switch in my mind took place. It seems to have been a gradual process. What's especially odd to me nowadays is I make no attempt to "sound" female, but I just seem less and less able to be fully male in either realm.

SL presents unique challenges in gender politics because it lies between the points of being stuck with the body you are born with, and the bodiless world of the chat room and IM's. Here the choice of gender is as easy as a radio button, but because we have humanoid forms you have to gender yourself in one way or another. The visual cues you give off with your choice of body are as unavoidable as they are in RL.

Anyways...

To me the choice to be female seemed like the realization of a lifelong dream. If joy is a topography, then it was climbing a hill and getting a new view after years of sitting in a gully. Oddly, people seemed to genuinely like and respect me. For the first time, the way I related to women felt right. A few even welcomed me as one of the girls, despite my openness about my RL sex. I treasure those times greatly.

Men treated me in a way I never expected, being gallant and considerate. I have experienced very few incidences of anything like sexual harassment. To my surprise I developed deep crushes on a few occasions.

All of this was a new view, and highly pleasant. But after a while I became aware of another peak of happiness. Having come to this point and realized much about my true nature as a being, I could see how much more alive I'd be if only... But in between me and this other peak it seemed there was an uncrossable chasm.

The trouble with online relationships is if you are not entirely what you represent yourself to be, they can only go so far. At some point the desire to take it to the next level gets overwhelming. I could see my friends making it to this other peak of happiness. They took their love and friendship into the real world. I could not follow.

So, after nearly two years this world, this promise of a dream, seems hollow. I am back in the valley, alienated from everything. Broke down.

If you have not heard from me on the grid lately, maybe this will help you understand. It's not that I've been out of touch with anyone in particular, its that I feel an alien to the whole world, both online and off.

Cautionary tale, or just another bit of flotsam on the web - I dunno.

Awww

Okay, so, I had this really long post typed and then realized that it was a completely disjointed rant, and deleted it. o_o So, at this time, I am going to summarize with the use of some good, old-fashioned visual aid.

I haven't done a lot of femaling in SL at all -- but I do have a huge amount of experience at "Being a woman" online... and I don't mean pretending to be a woman -- I'm a serious Roleplayer and have done so with friends in the past.to great effect that I actually feel a very definite female side to my personality. No gender confusion here, just more in tune with my femine side.I dunno though, I couldn't do it without an alt -- the name means a lot to me in that respect.

You know, I think games like Tomb Raider are harmful to the strong, female imagine. Some bimbo with big knockers running and bouncing around as a sex symbol more so then a strength symbol. Sex always seems to have to play a dominate part in almost strong female characters. Occasionally a character is hot because shes badass, but such cases are rare(Baiken from the Guilty Gear series comes to mind. Nothing like a hot chick whos missing a arm and an eye ).

I also find this is very true when men play these roles -- likely because they wish to become their sexual fantasy, though this isn't always true. I dunno, I have more respect for the strong female character/personality that doesn't care about her looks or actually finds her assets to get in the way(I once had a female swordsman who would tape her chest down to get it out of the way and so she wouldn't draw undo attention).

It is in these ways that it seems hard to really seperate ones self into a different gender while genderbending. In SL, a females female avatar will have wonderful hair and makeup and such -- while a guys avatar will usually just be stacked.

Kinda got off on a tangant because of a few comments in a few posts, but hey, whatever.

Now heres a question for you who play a different sex on SL -- besides the basics -- is your personality the same or different? of course there will be some changes, perhaps some added giggliness... But is it still you or are you a different person almost?

Whoa... zombie thread! Mm, no, too lively to be a zombie, more of a resurrected thread.

Well, if anybody didn't already know, yeah, I'm male IRL. Psychologically, I'm... just me, really. I've been told I have strong characteristics towards both genders in my makeup (no, not that kind of makeup... I'd look ridiculous in eyeshadow!), and I certainly can't disagree with that assessment. I don't really consider myself to have an orientation or whatever... I just kinda see people as people with different equipment and logical wiring.

I consider my online avatars very much as my Avatars, representations of my personality... with some roleplay mixed in for the escapism value. I do distinctly trend towards the female side of things... it's just more comfortable for me; I suppose I'm one of those who would have rather been born female.

Having been on the 'Net a while, it always boggles me when people are startled to find that my 'real' gender and 'VR' gender mismatch. I don't really assume that anyone online is necessarily as they appear in the real world. I mean, obviously, I'm also not a scrawny five feet tall, with fur and a tail, either (I wish!). On the other hand, while I don't really flaunt this disparity, I also don't really go out of my way to hide it; if anyone asks, I'm always going to give them the truth on the matter. Actually, I'm that way with most questions about myself... though don't bother asking for my password or bank account number or anything like that.

The hilarious questions I get sometimes, on other forums, always get me laughing. I usually tag myself as 'loose-brained vixen', and with frequent references to having a boyfriend, it seems to generate a lot of confusion among those with sexuality-comfort issues.

Personally, I think the amount of gender-bending (gender-blending! HAHA thank you Carolyn!) that happens online tends to confirm my belief that its a rare person who is strongly gendered, ie. the majority of people fall into the wide range of hues in the middle of the spectrum, and not the undiluted colours at either end.

heh, the topic threw me, I thought it referred to our avie's feet. I'm a guy, playing a guy, but have been mistaken in the past to be a woman playing a guy. Odd, seeing as how I'm a heterosexual. I just get a laugh out of it, honestly. Anyone who's seen me knows I'd make one butt ugly woman.

I'm a RL guy, roleplaying two different genders, and several species in SL.
I commonly roleplay a female fox (ie: [f|v]ixen).

If you look at my First Life information and read it carefully, you'll know that in real life, I am a guy. I leave that information there, and if anyone is as nosy as I am, they'd check the profile before wanting to get touchy-feely with me.

I find it rather hilarious, however, when I have a human male walk up to my common avatar, and start flirting.
Absolutely nothing wrong with humans, I must say. I just find it really funny when someone flirts with me - I'm used to other furries (all three sexes), or human females doing the flirting.

I don't see much wrong with the idea, as long as you're capable of being honest about it, because you never know what the other person is thinking. They could be thinking, "Wow, I met the coolest girl on the internet. I wonder if she'd like to meet up, and maybe have dinner?", while you're thinking, "I wonder if he's realized that I've got dangly bits, too?"

2¢.

I'm really glad someone resurrected this thread because I've just started SL and am thinking a lot about these kinds of issues.

In the only other game I've played extensively I picked a female character for the challenge and played her very convincingly, I think. Rather than being happy however, I started being ashamed at how good I was at decieving my friends. I eventually left the game without coming clean to anyone, which I regret as cowardly now.

In my first weeks here in SL I've triend to keep my AV completly neutral, both in gender and evey other way, because I don't want to bias myself against all the possibilities. I want to remain a blank slate until I investigate all the possibilities, or a lot of them in any case.

This thread however has got me thinking to make a male avatar that cross-dresses and is saving money for a gender change operation to fulfill a dream of becoming a lesbian. I'm sure it's been done, but then again what hasn't?

If I may humbly point you folk to a thread of mine created way back when:
12/16/02 to be precise....
/111/29/199/1.html


Still a great memory. My un-named lady friend is, as far as I know, no longer here in SL with us.


As far as actually role-playing the opposing gender however, I do feel that for the most part this is a very difficult undertaking. I've easily discovered when most are doing this - call it experience from being now 36 years old, or my profession irl (psych RN) but I find that most cannot convincingly pull it off, in the long run at least.

I'm a male IRL, but I often play females in computer games (RPGs, online or not). Probably because of the barby doll aspect (do you like dressing a manly avatar? Females look bettere) but also because it's cool to be something else.
In SL my AV is a male that I dress with female clothings ; I don't know why, maybe it's the result of conflicting desire of playing a female, but not lieing about my gender? I don't see myself playing a handsome male av at all.
I also have an alt who is female, and in order to remove the guilt of lieing about the gender, I explicitly put in the IRL info that this AV has no IRL existence people with a functionning neuron will understand that it's a guy playing, but I think it's not like it was stated, I entertain the though that it makes it easier to accept for others who would otherwise not have approached.
As several other people in this thread, my female AV (and me) has developped feelings for some guys, while I'm not really gay IRL ; it's interesting to see that another personnality can appear and kind of exist through an alt.

I think that there are many facets of this issue. It is complex for sure. Yes, there are male and female character traits in all of us but specific issues to deal with in regard to the problems that arise from a cross gender AV.

The first thing I want to say is that in my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing a male, female, alien, furry friend or whatever. I do have issues with someone playing a child that is sexual but that is an entirely different subject. You should feel free to play whatever character you wish but there are certain issues that arise specifically to sexual orientation.

I have never played anything but a male AV but if I were inclined to play a female I think I have a responsibility to be honest about the fact that I am a male irl. At a minimum, you need to be open and honest with your friends and not be perceived as someone “hiding” their identity. This is especially true when romantic relationships develop. Issarlk and Pelopidas illustrate nicely in their posts what I believe the central issue to be.





I experienced this same thing when for a short period of time I created an alt even though he was a guy too. I went to the place that I usually hang out one time without revealing who I was but that was one time too many. I wound up telling all of my friends who I was and even though I wasn’t lying to them it didn’t feel right being around them without them knowing who I was. I never played the av again and felt so much better being honest about who I was.

Issarlk felt as if she was lying and Pelopidas felt that she was being deceitful. They are both probably right. The central issue to me is one of trust, not that you choose to play the other sex. The person that you choose to be your partner has placed a great deal of trust in you to be open and honest about who you are. SL is much more of a game, I have found that most people play themselves and wrap their SL characters in RL feelings.

When I was in TSO I had a friend that after seriously dating a guy for 6 months found out that he was in fact a she. It was devastating to her not because he was a she, it was devastating because the person she loved was misrepresenting and lying about who she was irl. The person that she thought she knew was someone else. This is the central issue here, deceit.

If you are interested in someone romantically you have a responsibility to allow that person to choose whether they date an av that is a male or female irl. If you do not tell them then you are being selfish, deceitful and in effect making that choice for your partner. Should your rl gender be posted in your profile for all to see? Probably, it would remove any doubt and allow your friends and romantic interests to make informed decisions. Will this limit who you might be able to date? Sure, but wouldn’t you rather date someone that is perfectly comfortable with your rl gender? I would hope so. Lie about it before hand and you are only being selfish and will surely deeply hurt your partner when the truth comes out.

Do me a HUGE favor, keep my name out of your perverted delusions PLEASE.

I do accept people how they are, but if I do something like that I would feel very uncomfortable and I would feel I am lying to others and hurting them. I prefer to play who I am in real and in most cases feel that way too.

I try not to lie to people, even though I play female in-world.
This is why I have the decency to put in my 1st life info that I am a card carrying member of the XY Conspiracy, as well as manned up to my friends before things got too serious, pun intended.

It's sorta cost me a relationship, but I'd rather have an honest friendship than a dishonest lovership (hoorj for made up words!).

Though this honestly reminds me a little of how the Furry fandom works.

Haha, someone used the word "hoorj"! :D

"O GOD hear we go again " Your pic dos say "NO FUN" right

I'm a female in RL playing what ever I feel like in SL - which is generally a female (surprising to me!).
It has been very interesting and amusing at times to read through these postings. It has also gotten me thinking, as I wasn't aware that people took the whole gender thing in SL so seriously.
My approach has always been to use my avatar to express my emotions and feelings, sort of like what am I going to wear today? I often change it and find changing it to be one part of SL which I really enjoy. I really was not aware how people could find this changing of gender offensive, and I am glad that I have learnt this here before offending anyone!

Orignially when I joined SL I wanted to experience both genders and all types of creatures - just because I could and also to see if it did influence my experience in SL. However, as time goes on I find that I do not use my male avatars much at all (I have three waiting if I do feel inclined). The fact that some do find it offensive if we change/misrepresent our true gender shows me again, that SL is not just a game, it is more. Maybe this is also why I have not felt like putting on my male avatars.

I also wonder, looking around SL and seeing generally more females than males, are these all females in RL? Does it matter to me? No, a person is a person, regardless of their outer appearance. Again here I feel my opionion is linked to WHAT I do in SL, I am not here to find a romantic relationship, as I am engaged in RL, so maybe that is why it doesn't concern me what others in SL look like, but more how they act.

(By the way, I have noticed that there are usually less males at competitions in clubs, so attending as a male could give you more chance of winning??!!)

If I do get 'hit on' which does happen I have found anywhere being a female - then I tell them that I am engaged but would love to be friends.

Interestingly another slightly off the topic point that I have noticed about female avatars that are for sale - that have been made by RL males - they have ENORMOUS breasts! Quite amusing really.

To end my rant off, I agree with those of you who have said that it is more interesting to be female, the clothes are more interesting, and all the accessories, maybe this is why I continue to choose my female avatars over the others? However, I find it most interesting to represent how I feel or what I am doing by my avatars.

Anyway ... If I meet you in SL and I am not wearing one of my female avatars, please do not be offended, I might just be in a 'male' type mood!

That was a side, I never would have thought about. Being new here, I have been trusting that what is on the outside is on the inside. I haven't had any relationships other than just making friends on SL yet. I think I will be very careful about who I might fall for, though. I appreciate all honesty and I give the same back. If a man wants to play a woman or a woman a man, that is their choice and I respect that but to begin a relationship and not say a thing is totally disrespectful and hurtful. I feel it needs to be said in their 1st life profile or something.