Online Tootsies, sign in here!

Are you an IRL man playing an SL woman? If so, what's it like?

Are you an IRL woman playing an SL man? Tell us about it!

What did you learn about the other sex-- and what did you learn about yourself?

Out yourself here...

I at first stuck with a female AV and well played with the appearance to make a virtual dream woman lol....Man I was such a noob lol


But it felt wierd being a female AV flirting with other females lol.

**right Stell** hehehe

This question is offensive and insensitive to non-humans

Well then, maybe he should add the following questions:

Are you an IRL non-human playing SL as a human? What's it like?

Are you a IRL human playing SL as a non-human? Speak up.

What did you learn about the other species? What did you learn about yourself?

Feel better now, Wednesday?

As for people answering this, I doubt that you will get many responses, mainly due to anonymity and concern about potential backlash against them inworld. I do know others inworld playing against gender, and i know people who play other online games against gender.

For example, I have three male online friends who play Phantasy Star Online for the XBox as females. Why? Because of the funny reactions they get ingame walking around as females and having male voices come through via the XBox Live communicator.

Some of the cross-gender players may not want others to know because they feel that it destroys the persona that they have created. Others may feel that it might hurt the friendships that they have forged inworld, while others might feel that they might get rated negatively if they do "come out". There can be inworld repercussions to "outing" themselves here, much like there are real world repercussions that occur when someone reveals that they have a different sexual orientation than "normal".

That is just my opinion on the matter.

I cannot speak for experiences in this in SL however when I played TSO I went through several avatars before settling on a male one.

I first tried to be a female but really didnt care for the way I was treated. I then opted for a different race, then different race and gender then back to just different gender. It was a very interesting social experiment.

The one I created that seemed to be the most well received and well liked was a grey at the temples male dressed as a mechanic. It was fun. I liked being treated as just another person buy guys. Women running up to my av and hugging and kissing him was akward at first but after little thought (I mean its not real after all) it was no big deal.

Problems came up when I let it go too long. Friendships developed that I didnt expect to and I found the simple fun I had started turned into an uncomfortable mess of lies.

I was finally able to come clean with some people but others had moved on so I didnt pursue it.

When I came to SL I decided honesty is the best policy. Good people are hard to come by and if I found some here I didnt want to start relationships with lies however harmless they had started out. Yes I have male avs here too but 90% of the time Im female and human.

Reading Hamlets article I also wanted to make a note about harassment. My av is intentionally not a super feminine av from lessons I learned playing a male but that does not stop people from making lewd comments and inappropriate actions. Saying a person is "asking for it" I think is a cop out. Thats just giving the attacker an excuse. I don't buy it.

I play a gnome wizard on EverQuest. I used to play a wood elf ranger. My choice to switch was based on the available classes, though. But I definitely noticed a difference. As a lithe young elf lass, I got hit on constantly, but as a gnome, only other gnome men hit on me, and that's as a joke.
Now, given that they're both just pixels and don't reflect the player behind them, I never really understood it. I certainly did get preferential treatment as a wood elf. But being a gnome also meant people were less likely to treat me seriously in general and to treat me like a child. Very weird to me.
In SL, I don't really get any inappropriate comments. I'm transgendered in real life so I don't consider myself a tootsie... I just consider myself having an avatar that I'm comfortable with.

Interesting, Datura. When you say you're transgendered IRL, how exactly does that manifest? (In my experience, saying "transgendered" sometimes can mean anything from being post-op TS, pre-op TS, or simply cross-dressing.) Not sure you've posted about this elsewhere in the SL boards, and please feel free to ignore the query if it's too personal.


For other folks, what's *your* experience with Online Tootsies? For example, what's been your reaction to someone you've gotten to know real well in SL or another MMOG, and you eventually find out their gender is different IRL from their AV? Were you angry, feel deceived, pleasantly surprised, just curious, or what?

In response to Datura's revelation, I must say that my dad is also transgendered and has been for about 13 years(post-op). So I kinda know what it is like. I just thought I would share that because I have never met another besides my dad.

I call myself transsexual (male body, female mind in a nutshell). I'd rather not get into specifics, but... the whole terminology is so confusing in general... cross dressing, drag queen, transvestite, transsexual (in all its flavors) and they all mean different things and sometimes different things to different people and... argh. I'll say this, I'm still legally male. But I (very strongly) prefer to be referred to as female. Why tell anyone, then? Well... I'm young, I've got leftover angst from my teenage years... sometimes I want to talk about issues, and having to be always worried about what I say, as they say, really bites. Luckily, in SL I get an ignore function if someone bothers me about it. But to tell the truth, I haven't once had to use it.

Well, as Shel Silverstein says...


You're always welcome at our house
Any time of the day
You're always welcome at our house
And we hope you will stay


People who care about other people should never have to worry about what they say. You're always welcome at my place - for a deep discussion, or just an ol' chin wag.

My main in Asheron's Call 2 is a female character. Why did I choose that? Well, when I play traditional RPG's I never think of my av as me... more like my friend that I guide though the world. There are benefits to playing as a female character in most mmorpg's. People are just nicer and more helpful to you. And since most of those games are focused around fighting and questing and not socializing it's never seemed odd to me. Most people that know me in AC2 know that I'm a RL guy. Several members of my allegience are also guys playing female characters. It seems to be very common.

In SL I don't think I'd be comfortable playing against gender. Since so much of the focus here is on socializing I prefer to think of my AV as a direct representation of the real me. I'd like for people to get to know and like me for me.

I know someone in SL who started out playing a female AV and then finally started feeling uncomfortable with it and decided to change to a male. Some people who were close to this person were very upset and felt somewhat betrayed by the deception. Again, I think SL has a different dynamic than more traditional RPG's. Namely, SL isn't really an RPG!

Before SL i played in a game called Darkages. There are an equal percentage of female vs male characters, however i would say, if you were to go behind the character itself, that 20% of the female characters are played by males.

Personally, i had a friend, who after playing 3 years with them, told me that really 'she' was male. It was odd at first (i was shocked hehe), but in the end, i treat 'her' just the same, because it wasn't the fact she was male/female that i was attracted to in the first place.

In SL, it's the same, when i make a friend, the fact that he/she may be actually the opposite gender in real life doesn't bother me. I just like getting to know the human! Or in some cases the alien...kidding hehe

Hum...


Maybe some of you have met me The cute little girl AV, yeh?

Datura, it's so cool you talk openly to us about it! Thanks!

As for me, I've come in as my husband's AV, and when I talk to other ladys, I feel very awkward. I sometimes say who I am, othertimes, I'm too lazy, then get that awful "being untrue" feeling when conversations turn friendlier, and you know this person is going to remember you, but it's not you, you know??? LOL.

My hubby, on the other hand, has played my characters many times, in RPG's and that makes me feel very wierd... "what are you telling that person!" But he doesn't care, LOL, then people say hi to me, and start talking to me about things "we" talked about, and I don't know who da heck dat is!!!

I never tried to be "male" for any lenth of time, I'm uncomfy with that, but I have been, like Datura, a gnome vs woodelf, and that is sooooo true!! Being sexy and cute makes guys act strangely, LOL. But being a Gnome, was funnest. I was really into that personality ;oP I was evil and extreemly silly!

aw, I miss her !

Love Ingie

I treat SL as a second life. IRL I am of fixed nature and gender, both of which are limited and fixed. I deny that anyone can claim to be a Pure Male Person, or a Pure Female Person, or for that matter, a Pure Furry or a Pure Elf or Robot.

And being a complex compromise of natures in real life, SL gives me that chance to present sides of that nature with the emphasis of Gender and Appearance that I choose. My Gender in SL, and the gender of anyone I meet in SL, IS their Gender for me. If it turned out they were actually another gender IRL, well, see the comments on non-humans... Within SL itself, this IS IRL.. crossing the two is crazy. I sometimes chat with yahoo, but I don't consider the person I am chatting with to be a keyboard, just because all I see of them is typed letters. He / She is, in Yahoo, whatever they present themselves as, and nothing else. Same here.

If some males come on strong or crude, I can't see that in itself as harrassment. In Europe we have perhaps a less protected environment in this regard. Harrassment is for me any persistent attempt to override my personal feelings, despite my saying that this type of attention / activity is unwelcome. And door to door salesmen, insurance salesmen, etc are just as harrassing as anyone - without the sex bit. But this also applies to general persistent attempts to move me in a direction I am not happy with. The issue with sexual harrassment is a bit tougher - I can feel degraded by it; but I guess I need to just be aware that I AM also (emphasise ALSO) a mechanism devised by nature to make men want to reproduce, and nature attempts to cancel out the barriers males might have to that Vital Activity by short circuiting their minds!

As was said, it's not WHAT is said or done, but that it is inappropriate. And if signals get crossed, anyone can make a dumb move... It's the persistent nature of something like that that makes it unpleasant.

On the other hand, there are ppl in SL who are new and very uncertain in the world, and in their new identity. And if one dumb statement costs them their head, I think that is just too tough. If you clear the air of the unwanted theme, or the method it was presented, it often turns out there is a nice person in there - who was clumsy or whatever because of being unsure...

It would be a shame to kill people off for harrassment, when actually they are just trying to make contact, both with thier own natures, and with SL.

I would say, toughen up... we are all real folks, and sort of feeling our way around, making mistakes, being dumb now and then. And a bit of tolerance for other peoples Crude Natures can keep it all on a friendly footing - and who knows, make a new friend: SOMETHING attracted them to you!

Kim's advice about tolerance is a bit simplistic, I think...

I am fairly new in SL, but I have tried to treat all people I meet with respect and consideration. The result has been, I feel sometimes I am seen as a nerd or a jerk here... Maybe I should use a female AV? LOL

The really INTERESTING contacts I have met were also really where it actually went wrong...

One is a man with a "possession", a female "object"... A lifestyle that is totally against my egalitarian principles. The conversations I have had with these two have been extremely cultivated and intelligent... Although actually I should have theoretically been upset at this absolute degaradation of the female part of this pair, she was proud of the fact that she could competently fulfill this role... Is she the victim of successful harrassment or degradation? I think not... She is a very lucky person to have found a well-fitting role in SL, which she could not fulfill IRL. The LACK of consideration that this pair had for other people's opinion is what made them whole. And the total consideration they gave each other, for their respective roles, made them both complete.

The other one was when I called someone cute... I got booted around by them, and eventually pushed into the pool. I am not a masochist... but I could understand that that was not the right thing to say, was in fact degrading and offensive! So I took it on the chin, and tried to chat normally with her. She is one of the most energetic personalities I have met here! And in THIS case, I am a) delighted that I offended her, and b) DELIGHTED that she reacted so violently, but above all c) that she was still willing to talk to me afterwards. The attraction is not sexual - I love her explosive nature! I don't get the feeling with her that I am talking to a toothpaste commercial...

So I am not that sure that taking full and careful consideration of other people's feelings would produce anything other than a state of static monotony.

I would rather say, speak out, be who you are, and don't filter EVERYTHING through an "I am so nice" sieve. That would be the pits

I have played a lot of online games, from Quake to WOW, and I never have a fixed gender in mind when I make a character. Mostly I look at what amuses me to look at. Gnome-type girls, cute and funny! Big female orc? Funny jokes!

My RL friends are the same. They really don't care.

In SL I chose a female av for my first couple of weeks as I thought 'Pirate Cotton' was an overly cute name that kinda deserved a red-headed pirate lass.

In the end I switched to male when I realised it was a more 'real world' game and I didn't want to have to explain to people I was a guy in real life (although I talk like it).

I will probably post a novel on this topic when I get home. Work does not afford the privacy nor the time to write this one out as well as I think it should be, but bravo on this topic. It's something I'm quite interested in and I can't wait to read more stories as well as add my own in about......3 hours. ^_^

Boy did this one get dragged out of the depths of SL history!

As for online gender benders, after nearly 2 years I have found that they are some of the most highly creative and non-conformist personalities in our gridverse. At least the ones who are open about it are.

As for my take on it after all this time, check my sig and the one I had previously:

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be."

-Kurt Vonnegut

I played a female character back in Anarchy Online, mostly because I was bored out of my skull with the game... so I came up with the idea that the ONLY reason she would go out and kill stuff and do missions was to get more money to buy clothes! LOL

I was hit on a few times here and there, but I always played her casually aloof and a bit on the rough-n-tumbly side so thank god it never went beyond people offering me credits while I was standing on a table!

http://www.anarchy-online.com/character/bio/d/1/name/valaika

She is a redhead of course, my favorite!

Ok, I promised I was going to write something here, and if it's too long, then just skip to the bottom cause I'll try to summarize things there. I guess I'll start at the beginning of my online experiences, which was Anarchy Online.

I had always liked the idea of playing a strong female character ever since Tomb Raider (I got into it for more than the "visual appeal" and so I did and had a lot of fun with it, that is until I became involved in the social atmosphere of the place. There I found people who roleplayed extensively, and found that my character had a personality I hadn't planned on, not that I thought she was separate from myself, but I found enough of myself dying to seep out that it just happened that way. I had always been and still am quite shy and withdrawn in crowds IRL, so I was amazed at myself becoming quite a socialite of the nightlife. However, I kept my RL gender a secret, and often blatently lied about it to others, because I was deathly afraid that people liked me for the person they thought I was, not who I really was. Eventually, I came "out" on my own accord, and true to my fears, I was relatively shunned by those who had known me.

I've played several other online games since then, and have attempted to play male characters, but I always feel the part of me that has defined myself online is lost, almost as if I've placed a self-imposed gag order on myself. I mean, seriously, how many "normal" guys do you know that scrounge around looking for clothes and constantly giggle? (and yes, in every online game I've played, I am still a clothing whore. =P) In other games I had gone so far as to use pictures of friends and voice changing software in order to hide my actual gender. Several times, it has leaked out and each time, I have been quite utterly rejected, which usually has lead me to hide my RL gender even more.

When I came here for the first time, I was inspired by everything, but I still hid my gender and had it not been for my desire to bring RL music through DJing to SL, I probably still wouldn't have disclosed it. And at first, I got the same reaction as always. "OMG WTF??? You're not really a girl??? Why do you look like one??? OMG FAG DIE!!!" I still get a few of these IMs even to this day, or a lot of people questioning why I still use a female AV. Honestly, I did try for a time to use a guy AV while DJing......but again, I felt that the thing that made and makes me who I am online was locked away, crying to get out.

For me, it's not about nor has it ever been about hiding who I am or trying to keep people from that knowledge.....well, ok to some degree it is, and that's a personal thing since I tend to base a lot of my self-worth on my perception by others, or I do everywhere else but in SL. For the most part, in all occassions, it's allowing an important part of myself to have full reign, to let my cat out of the bag and then let her strut around some. Who I am online isn't all of me by far, but it's a big portion, one that I usually don't have the will nor self-confidence to share IRL outside a very few close friends.

However, it has always amazed me how much things that I do seem normal, even when to most they would be way off. I read the article about Torley and Jade and found so many similarities in myself, except for one glaring difference: that even though I am a guy IRL, I act completely and have relationships ingame as if I were a woman, and most of my relationships ingame have been with men. I still haven't figured it out yet, but I think a lot of it has to do with them, again to make the analogy, seeing my cat and petting her the right way. Guys can be ever so sweet when they want to be, and they can be so wonderous and confusing at times too. I know this from both experiences RL and SL, and it has never felt anything but right for me to be with someone of the opposite gender than my online persona.

I read up about it a long time ago, and it was said that it was a feature of transgendered or transsexual people to fall into relationships with people of the opposite gender, just because that was the way things were built. I don't quite fall into that category either because, as much as I enjoy my experiences in SL as a woman, IRL I am relatively comfortable with being a man and have no real desire to take that transformation any further than my computer screen.

Granted, do I think I would still be acting the same? Probably. Do I think I would be as accepted? Possibly. Do I think I would own as many clothes as I do? Of course! Do I think I would be having as much fun? Doubtful.

So yes, I am a guy in real life, and I am a girl in second life, and despite everything that has come along with being someone very "out" about it, I wouldn't change things here a bit. Then again, I don't expect everyone to understand it either. I still don't fully. All I know is that Second Life made the promise to be whatever you wanted it to be. And so I did.

For some reason, I feel compelled to post here... just to say that I've posted here!

It seems so appropriate.

*huggerz*

I had a female av once... when the asshat subsystem ate my body shape, I was turned into Ruth and so I made a few improvements upon it, resulting in 3 or 4 slightly different avatars.
I got bored with it since I am so well known as a guy that no one fell for it :\

I'm a big fan of an anime series called Ranma 1/2. Its a cute little martial arts / romance story, in which the main character has a curse that causes him to change into a girl when splased with cold water (hot water changes him back). That said, the first av I made was a Ranma avatar, and I made both the male and female type, and switched back and forth semi-randomly. I never really paid much attention to which form I was in until i realized that guys were flirting with me! Shortly after that I made a note in my profile to spell out that I am indeed a male.