Neualtenburg: History?

I do as well. Thanks, Phedre!

BTW --your embassy is almost completed.

So it's a theocracy now?

Would that be the system of government you and Ulrika claim to have created?

Is America a theocracy? "In God we Trust"... "One nation, under God" etc etc

No --your Government has been changed into something I barely recognize.

What about the structure, constitution, founding documents etc have changed?

You may not like the way the current elected government is serving, but it is within the structure you both endorsed.

It's getting closer to that now than it ought to be.

Getting closer? Like when they took prayer out of school and banned any religious displays from public land? One would think a government moving toward a theocracy wouldn't be doing these things, but if you say so....

Actually, no. America is not a theocracy. And I long to see the day that any mention of your god is removed from any government publication, building, statement, etc. etc.

My tax dollars should not go towards christianity's advertising campaign.

I would like some more infomation about the phases. What are the three phases and how do they relate to each other? I think phase 3 was made for artists though they sound more like content providers but dont have a clue about the other 2 phases. Did the Artists want to be in control and the other 2 groups objected?

What is the story?

With apologies to angels and pins, how many virtual utopianists can dance within the digital confines of a thread?

Respectfully, I disagree.

Hehe, I'm not sure that you want to know

I can only add that I saw NO mention of 'phases' existing until just quite recently. I never knew N'burg was 'Phase 2'. Actually, from the outside (me being an outsider), it seems the invention of the 'Phases' meme happened recently, in order to rewrite the past (history).

The Private Sim has been named Phase II since it's inception.

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Dianne I well understood it wasn't about size - I was making that point. Maybe I wasn't clear; I had no intent to poke.



As for what Caledon is, I think the closest definition would be a micronation, as defined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation

Yes, we have role players, we rent land, we have a LOT of fun.

And no, we don't take ourselves very seriously, though there are serious things that we do. The Relay for Life fundraiser, for instance.

Like I told Sudane, once a name is picked for the private sim, perhaps we restore proper diplomatic relations (provided Caledon is 'real' enough for everyone).




Allow me this one friendly tease:

We may not be very 'governmentally minded' it is true... but our Ladies Society likely has more land, economic power, and thus influence than both "Neualtenburgs" combined. Perhaps even more members too - if not, it soon will.


Taxes and tea,

- Desmond

I have to admit that yes, the phase word occurs in the linked forum, and it does actually mean the sim.

I'll retract my original statement then.

But still, I don't really think 'Phase 3' (in plans) existed back then or if it did it meant what it does today. But that's only my personal opinion, which might be because of lack of information, thought I doubt this.

ah, well the frown was only in fun also.

I like Caledon, I have friends and relatives there.

We can certainly have diplomatic relations, Phaedre was at our last town meeting I believe where we voted unanimously (but non-binding) to change the name.

The deadline for the vote on new names is up today and it will be interesting to see if the citizens did vote for a new name or the old one.

One plan floated by a citizen that I personally like, is to make our government open enough to accommodate other sims that want to be a part of the "nation" as it were, even if they aren't actually anywhere physically near us. A second house or legislature, kind of like a senate would be formed and the sim in question would send a senator to the capital after agreeing to abide by the laws and a few basic structure requirements.

By such means we will form a vast empire encircling the entire world of Second Life in our mighty grip! (insert sound of evil laughter)

Hmmm... Port Neualtenburg about to sprout up all over the grid... now this...

Caledon must have its own Empiah if it is to survive!!!

*rushes to find his fore-and-aft titfer, and squish the Caledon flag into the upper right quarter of every SL flag he can find, just in case...*

Kendra: I sincerely wish nothing but the best for phase III. If I am able to develop my artisanal skills I'll apply to join. There's no reason why I can't buy Frosted Flakes AND Shredded Wheat AND Lucky Charms (thanks Des!, they're magically delicious).

On a more serious note, let me say a few things about forum drama, and this is directed at no one in particular. I've said *many* things both in gov't meetings and in forums that I regret. It's in public transcripts and some of it will live forever to my eternal shame. Every nation has hotheads, and in the heat of the moment anyone can write things that aren't carefully considered and are regrettable.

In some cases it's a debate that can degenerate into insults and personal attacks. Often it's wanting to prove that one's point of view is *right*. Threads can also be easily derailed off-topic. Now if we step back a bit we need to look at the price of winning "the forum game" at all costs.

The average reader, when scanning a newspaper, looks at the attention grabbers and skims. See enough negative posts and that becomes an image to the tourist. This is, for example, why I don't RL vacation in Pyongyang. Namecalling and *drahma* actually hurt the existence of the organization, in fact it can provide a false negative picture of the nation state. The end result is the national "brand" (if you will) is damaged. Furthermore, the people of the opinion that "Resident Gov't sux" harden attitudes. All the while I envision LL tapping toes and saying, "Ugh, when will this self-organizing, self-policing resolution dispute stuff bear fruit? We should shut the forums."

We have common problems and citizens who want solutions. We should trade/cooperate/work together to make resident run Gov't projects work. Just my 2 cents. Peace/Out.. -Pel

PS: Many of us could learn from Desmond in this respect. Victorian Steampunk with Zen like harmony. Many things contribute to Caledon's success including the low drama level.

Phase III wasn't named as such until it went public. It was, however, known to the Phase II Government under various names for quite sometime as terms such as The Protectorate, Isenland, Birka or The Colony. Either to be set in land I owned on the main grid in Takalo (Isenland) or Funadama (Birka or Port Neualtenburg). The name "Guild City" had even been bandied about. These plans go back at least a year.

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In whatever name it held --it was concieved exactly as it now is: An Artisinal Collective. Originally Phase III was planned to exist without having to excise Phase II from the Projekt. Mcch as Phases IV and V will still exist while Phase III is operational.

Phase II's treatment of IP issues caused me to withdraw my permission for the use of said name. If they do wind up keeping the name "Neualtenburg", I will continue to inform the public that they do not belong to The Neualtenburg Projekt and are using it erroneously.

Well that's one thing we are missing entirely. I think after the name is settled we should definitely think about a flag.

How can our fleets meet at sea and do mighty battles if we don't have a flag to run up the mast?

Woah! Phedre, I don't know what I said to send your patience meter off the scale.

I have been to Caledon many times and like I said I know a lot of folks there and think it's a fine place. I was aware of Caledon in it's planning stages, possibly before you ever became associated with it and have always been on cordial terms with Desmond and many people there.

I don't personally care who's been more successful and such "success" is a relative term anyway. By what measure are we to decide?

My only point was to indicate the difference between the two. The soon to be named city is a project about government in a virtual environment. Caledon is a country, a state, an empire and a lot of other great stuff but it has no government per se, nor is that it's purpose. That's partly why its' so peaceful and such a great place to live.

If Caledon is worried about it's size or about people leaving for other projects, they have more to worry about from places like Port Neualtenburg than the soon to be renamed city as the structure is more similar and the kind of citizens each attracts similarly so.

IMO there is room enough for all and no reason to fight at all. It's getting so one hesitates to post anything for fear of long point by point arguments in return.

I have no axes to grind and no agenda other than promoting the city and trying to heal over some of the wounds of the past.

If living in virtual worlds ever actually takes off, especially the idea of virtual governments, it's history will be written by other people. Not by me, or Kendra or Ulrika or Desmond or you or likely anyone currently involved. The true story is yet to be known, I am just doing my best to be fair, and to be true to myself and my friends, as I think is everyone else on this thread.

Which kind of begs the question... why are we fighting again?
*scratches head*

Lets all sit round a bong when the dust settles, bury any remaining hatchets, and learn to get on with each other again.

LoL. Well, from what I can gather there are two essentially two Neualtenburgs, each claiming to be the "legitimate" one. Reminds me somewhat of religion where each one claims to be "it".

Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing them both tonight!! Afterall, two is better than one, is it not?