52K USD in object sales week of 7/17

Helllloooo 52K USD in object sales here

How much of that 52K is being passed around from user to user in mutual sales and how much is being removed as US$ profit?

52K US$ is indeed nicely high, however if most of that were simply being passed around in multiple buys and sells it could still result in only a small handfull of traders gaining much more than pocket money earnings.

What are "mutual sales"?

There is the payments # which is a seperate value in the spreadsheet which I generally ignore because it's so improbable.

Hmm, unless you say there is a reseller economy? That'd be interesting.

Another possibility is that it is including the figures from when the "sell objects with this parcel" is turned on.

It is not 52k in sales, for that to be true, you would need to cash out the 52k. This is not what is happening. If 2 people by something from eachother each spending 1k, then the money earned by both is 0, but the sales amount is 2k. The numbers you are using are skewed. I think that transactions between people are also counted. So if I have an alt and use it as a "bank" for myself and are moving money between the two people, then that is also counted for the total, but still no real money is being made. So saying that 52k USD is misleading. USD is only made, in my book, when someone cashes that money out and sees it for themselves.

Nice try. No cigar. This has nothing to do with that round of inquiries, but why am I not surprised you would attempt to slant it in this manner? Quite sad, really.

However I do owe you a thanks -- this reply constitutes the best validation of my opinion possible and anyone can now see why I hold the opinion of you that I do.

So... thanks.

I think it's unjustified the level of attacks Anshe gets. Everyone HATES a winner. Just look at Bill Gates and Microsoft. Some people would swear Microsoft is the devil.

Well, back on topic.

While it's true there may be some people buying virtual goods with money they are earning, I don't think this is a big chunk and I don't think this is a problem. If you want to spend your money on a vacation or a movie or a virtual weapon, that's your choice. This does mean that demand exists, which is what I think is important.

As for the "bank" that's a different column (a much HIGHER one which I ignore as I explained above) in the spreadsheet, check it out.

It's not Microsoft that's the devil. It's Bill Gates.

Okay, even if Bill Gates isn't REALLY the Devil, you can bet that the following just might/should happen

Eventually Bill dies and finds himself in front of St. Peter.

St. Peter is embarrassed, "I don't know what to do with you Bill..."

"... You put a PC in every household..."

"On the other hand, you made Windows 95..."

"So, I tell you what." he offers...

"You can choose between Heaven and Hell."

Bill: "Really, I can choose?"

"Yes, pick one," replies Peter.

Bill, who, is very professional, says "OK, can I visit both before deciding?"

"OK, we can do that. Which do you want to start with?"

Bill: "Why not start with Hell?"

And so they both went to Hell.

They find that it's magnificent. There are great beaches with plenty of sun. There are naked women everywhere, all smiling at Bill.

"That looks fantastic!" Bill says, "Now, how about Heaven?"

Then they went to Heaven. It's magnificent too. There are the same great beaches with plenty of sun. In fact, it looks just like Hell, except there are no naked women.

"OK," Bill says, "This is a no-brainer. I pick Hell!"

After a week St. Peter decides to visit Bill, who was sent to Hell. The poor guy was writhing on the ground, screaming, and clawing at the ground with his nails. He shouts at St. Peter: "No! No! No! I can't stand it any more!"

"What's wrong?" St. Peter asked.

Bill says, "I don't understand. This is nothing like what I saw the first time! Where are the beaches? Where are the naked women?"

St. Peter smiled and answered calmly, "That was just a demo."

Just to let you know, if we included the total payments, that would be 111M L$ or ~450K USD per week. (about 20 million per year)

By mutual sales I mean that with 4000 users buying and selling to each other the same L$ goes round and around and around. Yes I know the proportion of traders to consumers is probably 1:100 or more, but the concept still holds that most L$ is circulated rather than 'cashed out'.

If you want a more accurate picture of how much US$ is actually being earned you need to go to GOM and ask Jamie or Tom for some generic stats that show how much they pay out in US$ via paypal. You'd then need to guesstimate the same stats for IGE.

As a general rule, anyone who brags about how much they make in SL is someone that loses my business (if they ever had it to begin with)... apart from being crass, it indicates an objectification of the consumer that I do not care to support.

Anyway... The people who make money in SL (RL$) appeal to the broadest base interests OF SL. The listing is short and completely common sense (in no particular order):

1) Land
2) Avatar Accessories
3) Sex or The Sex Trade
4) Gambling

With occasional spikes in other areas as trends appear and fade (e.g., tinies).

Supporting industry (e.g. scripted objects, textures, etc.) depend heavily upon activity in these top four to sustain themselves, and the further you go down the support chain, the hotter the competition.

Those who are 'on top' today are almost guaranteed not to be within two years, both because the savvy of the consumer will increase and the competition will learn from the mistakes being made by today's 'Top Dogs'.

If anything, the lesson is not as much 'emulate those who are successful today' as it is 'beware the toes you step on today... they may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow'.

How true, Weedy. How many people would turn down a job at Microsoft just because they didn't care for its CEO?

Not me. Been there a few times and could easily work there. Oh I'd have to live in Redmond cause I don't like living in the car during daily traffic jams. The cost of living in the area is a bit high for me. But that's normal to people who already live in densly populated areas.

Actually, the number is not indicative of anything as people buy land from SL in USD and then cash out on GOM. Or they could buy L$ from IGE/Anshe and sell on GOM.
In fact, it's probably very misleading.


However, I think if you buy content on SL after selling it, I don't think that's a problem. It's just money you're not spending on going to the movies.

Last time I bought a DVD or went to a movie? Looonnng time. Kinda, in a way, by not going to the movie .. I am 'cashing out'.

Kris, I have absolutely no doubt that this is true given the straightforwardness and strength of your projected personality and that's a good thing. But I don't assume all Microsoft employees need to hold him in the highest regard as a personal requisite for working there.

Oh I agree. I just wouldn't work for Microsoft myself!

Not that they'd have me anyway. lol

Every discussion on economic indicators gives explanation as to why they aren't a good basis for an economic indicator. So are there any semi reasonable ways to judge the SL condition? Until such a time that adequate stats are forthcoming, is it just casual speculation?

In other words businesses that have something to do with FUN

Ok, I think I better understand what you are saying now, and yes I agree with what you are saying. I think (correct me if I am wrong) that you are using the 52k number to illustrate the demand for goods in world. You are also showing the potential of the market, even if it can never be completely converted. If this is true, then yes I agree with you 100% there is a strong demand for goods in SL. On thing I wonder is if that "sales" number includes money spend in casino type games. If someone is about breaking even, they still could be paying in a lot of money, but winning most, if not all of it back. Also, is the money paid to the machines of GOM and Ginko also counted in this cound? If these numbers are included, along will all refunds that machines give, then I fear the numbers are skewed.

(just on a side note, why are there 2 unrelated discussion going on in the same thread? The title is 52K USD in object sales week of 7/17, so please, start your own thread before this one gets closed)

I see the point you are trying to make, and indeed agree that no one
is paying their FL electric bill with $L (yet)...

But, at the same time, since we can look at SL as a virtual country
with it's own currency and exchange rate to $USD, then how is making
$L in SL any different than making Euros in England? Or making
yuan in China? Doesn't a merchant selling in those places "make money"
during the sale? Do we have to require it be converted to $USD
before we say it's real?

I DO agree that if Joe buys a box from Jill for $1 (doesn't matter
the currency) and Jill buys a sphere from Joe for $1, then each of
their net results is $0, and so neither person can really show
a profit at that time.

So... with THAT said... I think that while it's true that $52k US exchanged
hands (and some people made a hefty profit), then we can't really say
that SL earnings actually increased people's pocket books by $52k.

Gabrielle

Actually, 111 million or over 400K USD changed hands during that time.

The 52K is merely object sales.

For reference, all in-game transactions with GOM happen by payment to/from objects, and should therefore come under the "Payments" column. In the last week for which in-world economic data is published (Week of 07/24) there were L$33,696,697 in the payments column, and deposits and withdrawals to/from us accounted for L$22,081,678, or roughly 65% of payment activity.

Just curious.. is it generally 50/50 for deposits / withdrawls?

It would be interesting to chart the price level against the split. You guys might be able to predict the price of L$ and make money off the arbitrage

Heh heh, for fun you could even tackle IGE with your knowledge.

This is where the Traders enter the picture on GOM. Remember that GOM itself is a computer system that alows trading, whereas IGE is a company out to make profit.

Traders on GOM put in a float of US$ and L$ so that consumers can move their own US$ or L$ in and out of world. The actual price is set on a supply/demand basis by the consumers as opposed to IGE or AnsheChung.COM where some suit in a backroom sets the prices.

If there is a 50/50 demand to cashout or buy in, then the price will remain roughly stable at whatever level it happens to be. This has been the case for the last 2 weeks or so. Demand for the lastest fashions in-world, (whether clothes, vehicles or new continent land) will bias the flow towards buying L$ causing the price to rise. Conversely, the extra revenue by the content barrons selling these latest fashions will generate more L$ sales as they cash out their profits, thus reducing the price once more.

Predicting the future is not really possible by looking at the historic data as the price is mainly controled by what is happening in-world.